Victim: Jessica Taylor, 20, found Manorville July 2003 & Gilgo Beach Mar 2011

[Jenny9]

I think we have gone a little wild with the gang angle and have gotten way off track. There is a serial killer.

yes correct redbird.we have a sk here on li for almost 30 yrs.so that puts him in my book early to mid 50s.moo:moo:i belive that when he was young 20s-30s,he was very much into slaughter.maybe hes a hunter?maybe he was amed student practicing disceting,who knows.but i beleive he eventually got married and settled down and had to start going for a cleaner kill,strangulation.no mess,no fuss.no explaining away bloody clothes.and i also believe that the stretch of years in between he was busy in his career and his family.so he seeked other grandior ways of filling the void.maybe by trying to save people????:moo:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

hi mountain kat,i moved to manorville about 3 yrs ago and there are no gangs here.its just a rural type area where your neighbors are horses!there are alot of woods and alot of dirt roads and streets with no lights.mosly hunters in most of the woods when its in season fro deer,turkey,etc.also lots of atv riding out here.its actually a very nice area.peaceful and quiet except for the roosters!as far as dead dogs,chickens,deer,etc there are a lot of people who just dump stuff in the no light areas.

Hi, Jenny. I didn't mean that manorville itself is a hotbed of low level gang activity. Rather that it's a perfect dumpsite for such. And for all the reasons you mentioned.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I think we have gone a little wild with the gang angle and have gotten way off track. There is a serial killer.

Agreed. But the question, at least in my mind, is... are all these bodies the work of a serial killer? I personally don't believe that they are. The GB4 and the AC4 definitely are, imo...but Manorville? I just don't think so.

MOO

 

[Samantha Spade]

Regarding the Carina Saunders case that i referenced which involves a gang type drug prostitution ring - Her dismembered body was found in a duffel bag and placed out in the open behind a convenience store, so that method of disposal (not hiding it) would be along the lines of what some of you mentioned...whoever killed these women (LISK) went out of his way to hide the bodies - unlike the gang murders.

Typically (if there is such a thing as typical in these cases) do serial killers go out of their way to hide their victims' bodies, if there is no obvious connection between them and their victims?

I guess I'm still haunted by how lucky this sk (if he is an sk and not a disposal guy) was to just happen to run into Maureen that day and know what she did for a living. I believe that if it was a prearranged set up, the police would have that info and who it lead to. She told a friend she was robbed of her earnings that day. Does anyone know if she mentioned if it was a pimp or a street walker who was a little ticked that she was working their territory, though on a higher class level? And how would they know that? I remember hearing one of the girls was attacked by a street walker near the PA, but I can't remember which one or where I may have read that. Maybe it was Melissa B.

The commonality between Maureen (who to me looked like the beautiful girl next door) and Jessica (though beautiful, at that time at least by the pics I have seen, looked like a tough cookie who was familiar with the streets) both were last known to be in that area - the area of the Port Authority in NYC. So that commonality (Port Authority) led me to think about who was keeping their eye on the comings and goings of the girls who worked in that area.

 

[Samantha Spade]

And wasn't it reported that Jessica had worked in DC, but then left and started working in NY? Did her pimp come with her? If not, don't you think he'd be pretty angry that she left. These guys seem to think that they own these women and they are their possessions.

I've read the posting which was supposedly by Jessica's pimp seeking info on her wear abouts. Are we sure he wrote that? It sounded a little too grammatically correct and so unlike what I would expect a low level pimp to write like.
Think about it. If the pimp did have something to do with her death, or at least knew who may have killed her, he'd want to cover his axx and start acting all concerned. Because he would know eventually the PO PO would come looking for him. So I am not ready to just write him off just yet.

 

[nugzter]

Agreed. But the question, at least in my mind, is... are all these bodies the work of a serial killer? I personally don't believe that they are. The GB4 and the AC4 definitely are, imo...but Manorville? I just don't think so.

MOO

I agree also. It's the burlap and craigslist that ties them together and that one phone call is the one sure shred of evidence that says if he was the killer of one, he was the killer of all the GB4. AC may or may not be connectied. Mannorville is most likely not but tough to rule out 100%. JT is starting to look less likely connected to the GB4.

 

[marie-chantal]

Agreed. But the question, at least in my mind, is... are all these bodies the work of a serial killer? I personally don't believe that they are. The GB4 and the AC4 definitely are, imo...but Manorville? I just don't think so.

MOO

This is exactly what I was thinking! I definitely don't believe that AC and GB are gang-related. I do lean that way with the Manorville killings, however. Other than JT being a prostitute, the way she was murdered and dumped is so different from the other groups.

 

[Aleph]

The commonality between Maureen (who to me looked like the beautiful girl next door) and Jessica (though beautiful, at that time at least by the pics I have seen, looked like a tough cookie who was familiar with the streets) both were last known to be in that area - the area of the Port Authority in NYC. So that commonality (Port Authority) led me to think about who was keeping their eye on the comings and goings of the girls who worked in that area.

I wish I could highlight what you wrote here and surround it with flashing lights. Port Authority might be extremely important and we haven't considered that very much on this board.

I remember reading that Port Authority was once a popular area for women who worked the streets. I don't know if this is true anymore (I know NYC has made great efforts to at least give the appearance of being cleaned up) but one thing I can say from my last visit (about a year ago) is that the underworld element is definitely present in these places. There are people walking around obviously in some state of desperation or in a drug high, and others who clearly don't have a place to stay. Many nicely-dressed people stop and rummage through each trash can looking for food or empty bottles. It would be a smorgasbord for someone looking for vulnerable people.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I agree also. It's the burlap and craigslist that ties them together and that one phone call is the one sure shred of evidence that says if he was the killer of one, he was the killer of all the GB4. AC may or may not be connectied. Mannorville is most likely not but tough to rule out 100%. JT is starting to look less likely connected to the GB4.

There's more than just burlap and craigslist to connect them, though. It's the mindset evident in the murders that stands out, imo. LISK might see his victims as disposable playthings, but he elevates his deeds. He HAS to, because once the victim is no longer of use to him, all he has to give him that feeling of power is what he has done. Hence his "trophy case". He rode by that dumpsite on a regular basis, guarantee it, and it fed his need to feel superior. He does NOT just hack up bodies and toss them here and there without a care. IMO

In fact, I bet LISK was furious to discover that other victims, who were not his work, ended up in his trophy case. I bet that eats at him like you wouldn't believe.

All MOO, of course.

 

[Samantha Spade]

"I wish I could highlight what you wrote here and surround it with flashing lights. Port Authority might be extremely important and we haven't considered that very much on this board."

Aleph,
Shannan reportedly stopped by to meet with a client near the Port Authority before she headed to LI that fateful night and I recall reading news reports that Jessica was last scene working near the Port Authority.

 

[Redbird]

"I wish I could highlight what you wrote here and surround it with flashing lights. Port Authority might be extremely important and we haven't considered that very much on this board."

Aleph,
Shannan reportedly stopped by to meet with a client near the Port Authority before she headed to LI that fateful night and I recall reading news reports that Jessica was last scene working near the Port Authority.

There is a strong connection between the victims and the Port Authority/Times Square. I believe he trolled for victims there before he discovered Craig's List and Backpage. Jessica Taylor was seen hanging around their shortly before she disappeared. Maureen Brainard-Barnes checked into the Motel 8 near there and called from the Port Authority that evening saying she had been robbed and needed a ride home. Then she disappeared. Melissa Barthelemy's cell phone was found by a pimp in Times Square. Melissa's sister Amanda was called by the SK from there. Amber's phone for her ads tracked to within 2 miles of the New York Port Authority Bus Terminal.

May 25th, 2008 TAMIKA HOWARD, misssing. She was a prostitute who lived in Newark, NJ but she worked around Penn Station in Manhattan and may have been spotted there the night she vanished.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...rd_tamika.html

 

[MrsPC]

Redbird -
where did you find the info about Amber's phone for her ads tracking to within 2 mi of the Port Auth and that a pimp found Barthelemy's phone?

and, just wanted to add again - Barthelemy was arrested 2008 on the same block as Brainard-Barnes motel.

 

[dcgrumpy]

There is a strong connection between the victims and the Port Authority/Times Square. I believe he trolled for victims there before he discovered Craig's List and Backpage. Jessica Taylor was seen hanging around their shortly before she disappeared. Maureen Brainard-Barnes checked into the Motel 8 near there and called from the Port Authority that evening saying she had been robbed and needed a ride home. Then she disappeared. Melissa Barthelemy's cell phone was found by a pimp in Times Square. Melissa's sister Amanda was called by the SK from there. Amber's phone for her ads tracked to within 2 miles of the New York Port Authority Bus Terminal.

May 25th, 2008 TAMIKA HOWARD, misssing. She was a prostitute who lived in Newark, NJ but she worked around Penn Station in Manhattan and may have been spotted there the night she vanished.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...rd_tamika.html

The phone that was used to call her sister was found?

 

[dcgrumpy]

Nevermind, I see it was a different phone

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/01/28/news/sister-called-from-missing-prostitutes-phone/

They also discovered another phone once belonging to Barthelemy and tracked it to a convict who said he picked up the phone after she dropped it in a fight with another woman. Authorities in New York also located Barthelemy’s pimp, who corroborated the man’s story, saying he had ordered the other woman to fight Barthelemy because he was upset she had been seeking clients on her own, the official said.

 

[Samantha Spade]

Is that the same pimp who claimed she didnt want to tell him where she was going and was real secretive the last time he claimed he saw her and he accepted that. if so, then wow, what a change huh? Dripping with sarcasm.

 

[Aleph]

Aleph,
Shannan reportedly stopped by to meet with a client near the Port Authority before she headed to LI that fateful night and I recall reading news reports that Jessica was last scene working near the Port Authority.

Do you happen to have a link to that tidbit about Shannan?

 

[Redbird]

Redbird -
where did you find the info about Amber's phone for her ads tracking to within 2 mi of the Port Auth and that a pimp found Barthelemy's phone?

and, just wanted to add again - Barthelemy was arrested 2008 on the same block as Brainard-Barnes motel.

If I have saved a link it will take me a while to find it. But I am pretty sure Shadowraiths went through all their ads and looked up Amber's number and where it tracked to. Also The Foreigner had copies of their ads and may have the number. 6XX-639-XXXX was one of Amber's numbers from her ads and I am pretty sure Shadowraith looked it up and said it tracks to two miles of the New York Port Authority. Those are the notes I have.

 

[Jenny9]

Suffolk police: Jogger finds body in Manorville
(03/21/12) MANORVILLE - Suffolk police say a jogger found a body in a wooded area of Manorville today, marking the second time in just over a month that human remains were discovered in the area.

The body was found in the Manorville Hills County Park, police say. Homicide detectives are investigating, although a cause of death has not been released. Police say the body's gender has yet to be determined.

Last month, a Manorville man walking his dog discovered human bones, including a skull, not far from the site of today's find.

Two other sets of remains were also found in Manorville in 2000 and 2003. Both of those cases were later linked to the Ocean Parkway murders, but police have not said whether the latest discoveries may also be related.

Police search Manorville area where remains were found
Police: Manorville remains dumped at least 5 years ago


sorry i dont know where to post this or link it to news12.com!

 

[Samantha Spade]

Aleph asked, "Do you happen to have a link to that tidbit about Shannan?"

Hi Aleph,
Okay, I found an article that mentions that Shannan reportedly had met a client at midnight for an appt. in Midtown Manhattan (before she and Pak headed to Brewer's) and that his apartment wasn't far from where Pak picked her up at the corner of 32nd St. and 6th Avenue in Manhattan.

THE NIGHT SHE VANISHED
About 1 a.m. on May 1, 2010, Shannan Gilbert left Manhattan after a midnight liaison with a client for another appointment in Oak Beach. Here is a timeline of her movements, according to witnesses, phone records, police or sources with knowledge of the probe:

Pasted from <http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/cops-remains-likely-those-of-shannan-gilbert-1.3385742>

At the corner of 32nd Street and 6th Avenue, she pulled out her cellphone and called her driver, Michael Pak, he said. It was 10:02 p.m.
Her mood was calm, Pak would later recall. "She sounded normal," he said. "Everything was OK. Inside Pak's SUV, Gilbert changed into dark leather boots and posted an ad on Craigslist, he said. By midnight, she was at her first appointment, a man in a nearby apartment, Pak said.

Pasted from <http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214>

 

[dc20015]

I wish I could highlight what you wrote here and surround it with flashing lights. Port Authority might be extremely important and we haven't considered that very much on this board.

I remember reading that Port Authority was once a popular area for women who worked the streets. I don't know if this is true anymore (I know NYC has made great efforts to at least give the appearance of being cleaned up) but one thing I can say from my last visit (about a year ago) is that the underworld element is definitely present in these places. There are people walking around obviously in some state of desperation or in a drug high, and others who clearly don't have a place to stay. Many nicely-dressed people stop and rummage through each trash can looking for food or empty bottles. It would be a smorgasbord for someone looking for vulnerable people.

First, I have always too felt there was a strong midtown Manhattan link to this case.

Secondly, just to respond to this, I am not a New Yorker, but it is my understanding that that area used to be sort of the epicenter for prostitution and other sex-related businesses in NYC, but got somewhat Disneyfied during the Giuliani years. Yes, you can still see some seedy businesses, particularly on side streets, but its mostly a tourist trap now. As far as the amazing cross-section of humanity, I think that mostly has to due with the sheer number of folks densely packed into one space. I haven't travelled extensively, but in the US, I don't think any area of any city even comes close to having so many people walking around in one district at all times unless there's some really special event going on. The more people period= the more weird ones. Also, train stations and bus terminals always bring a certain element...perhaps it is because they bring in transients...I don't know.

Finally, an attraction to an area like that for someone meeting up with a person they might have ill intent for kind of runs by the same logic as the phone calls to Amanda Barthelemy being made from there. It is a very public place, but easy for almost anyone and anything to blend in. Unless you're walking around with 7 heads or have set yourself on fire, nobody is going to notice. There is so much foot traffic and so much noise and so much sensory overload in general that the little things just don't get paid attention to.