VT - Suspicious deaths in Pawlet under investigation
- Thread starter Leopard
- Start date
Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread
SoBu
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2015
- Messages
- 121
- Reaction score
- 907
Why?
www.wcax.com
Police arrest victim’s son for Pawlet triple murder
Police have arrested a suspect in a triple murder in Pawlet, and he is the son of one of the victims.
Son of Brian Crossman arrested on three counts of aggravated murder
GLENS FALLS, N.Y. — Brian Crossman Jr., 23, of Granville, New York has been arrested on three counts of aggravated murder arising from the fatal shootings of his father, 46-year-old
nhmemorymaker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2020
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 56,563
Why?
Police arrest victim’s son for Pawlet triple murder
Police have arrested a suspect in a triple murder in Pawlet, and he is the son of one of the victims.
Here is some answer to ....... why?
Family members describe Crossman Jr. as having a troubled relationship with his father and said he had previously displayed concerning aggressive behavior. They also say he had mental health issues and a learning disability.
Police say a search of Crossman Jr.’s phone showed searches related to serial killers and unresolved murders.
I would like to know when those phone searches were done. How premeditated was this.?
nhmemorymaker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2020
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 56,563
i don't know exactly what this means:
New York State Police located Crossman Jr. and took him into custody. He appeared in court in Lake George, New York, Friday afternoon on a charge of being a fugitive from justice.
abcnews.go.com
New York State Police located Crossman Jr. and took him into custody. He appeared in court in Lake George, New York, Friday afternoon on a charge of being a fugitive from justice.
Son arrested in the murder of his father, stepmom and stepbrother: Police
A man has been arrested for the murder of his father, his father's wife and her teenage son, who were found shot to death at their Vermont home, police said Friday.
Inthedetails
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2014
- Messages
- 26,504
- Reaction score
- 167,502
nhmemorymaker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2020
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 56,563
Son of Brian Crossman arrested on three counts of aggravated murder
GLENS FALLS, N.Y. — Brian Crossman Jr., 23, of Granville, New York has been arrested on three counts of aggravated murder arising from the fatal shootings of his father, 46-year-oldwww.manchesterjournal.com
When asked what occurred, Crossman Jr. said that he "left the residence around midnight to go for a walk." He said that he found his family dead upon his return, and "attempted to drag his father ... outside the residence which is why he was covered in blood."
Dotta
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2021
- Messages
- 12,661
- Reaction score
- 77,447
Considering
that little stepbrother got most shots
I guess the motive might have been jealousy.
Did the accused brother live with the "new" family?
Did he feel excluded from family and replaced by a little and popular step-sibling?
MH issues didn't help either to solve the emotional upheaval IMO.
RIP to victims
JMO
that little stepbrother got most shots
I guess the motive might have been jealousy.
Did the accused brother live with the "new" family?
Did he feel excluded from family and replaced by a little and popular step-sibling?
MH issues didn't help either to solve the emotional upheaval IMO.
RIP to victims
JMO
nhmemorymaker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2020
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 56,563
the actual arrest says he is a resident in NY, where his mother lives, but he told police "he was taking a walk after midnight" and came back to find them dead.... Which indicates he must have been at father's house in VT.Considering
that little stepbrother got most shots
I guess the motive might have been jealousy.
Did the accused brother live with the "new" family?
Did he feel excluded from family and replaced by a little and popular step-sibling?
MH issues didn't help either to solve the emotional upheaval IMO.
RIP to victims
JMO
Note that the Pawlet house and the NY residence are abutting towns. NY/VT border.
nhmemorymaker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2020
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 56,563
I noted that as well ..seems like most violence to the 13 year old.Considering
that little stepbrother got most shots
I guess the motive might have been jealousy.
Did the accused brother live with the "new" family?
Did he feel excluded from family and replaced by a little and popular step-sibling?
MH issues didn't help either to solve the emotional upheaval IMO.
RIP to victims
JMO
Excellent article with info from family members.
www.bostonglobe.com
Son with mental health issues charged with murdering father, stepmother, and stepbrother in small Vermont town - The Boston Globe
"One day I will kill him." In affidavit, relatives and friends tell of suspect's troubled past
www.bostonglobe.com
Knox
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2009
- Messages
- 31,271
- Reaction score
- 201,139
The friend said that Erica Crossman had previously confided in them "that she didn't feel safe with Crossman Jr. at the residence, and that she was afraid to be there alone when Crossman Sr. wasn't around."
Erica Crossman had told the friend she was scared for that weekend in particular because Crossman Sr. was "on-call that weekend for Green Mountain Power."
Crossman told the friend she "had a pistol, but that she never carried it, and wasn't sure if she would be able to use it if she needed to." The friend advised Erica Crossman to have Crossman Sr. "lock up all the guns."
As Erica Crossman had feared, Crossman Sr. was, in fact, called out by Green Mountain Power multiple times on Sept. 14 and Sept. 15, with the last call for service being placed at 12:27 a.m. on Sept. 15.
www.manchesterjournal.com
Erica Crossman had told the friend she was scared for that weekend in particular because Crossman Sr. was "on-call that weekend for Green Mountain Power."
Crossman told the friend she "had a pistol, but that she never carried it, and wasn't sure if she would be able to use it if she needed to." The friend advised Erica Crossman to have Crossman Sr. "lock up all the guns."
As Erica Crossman had feared, Crossman Sr. was, in fact, called out by Green Mountain Power multiple times on Sept. 14 and Sept. 15, with the last call for service being placed at 12:27 a.m. on Sept. 15.
UPDATE: Son of Brian Crossman arrested on three counts of aggravated murder
GLENS FALLS, N.Y. — Brian Crossman Jr., 23, of Granville, New York has been arrested on three counts of aggravated murder arising from the fatal shootings of his father, 46-year-old Brian Crossman Sr.; his stepmother, 41-year-old Erica (Pawlusiak) Crossman; and his 13-year-old stepbrother, Colin...
Knox
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2009
- Messages
- 31,271
- Reaction score
- 201,139
In the news story linked above, JR's mom says she knew something was wrong with him since the age of three. She told LE he had recently had a mental breakdown a month ago and had a doctor's appointment with his primary care physician on October 9th.
“When asked what Crossman Jr. was diagnosed with, [Bassett] advised possibly schizophrenia,” the affidavit reads.
I haven't experienced a child with mental health issues, but can imagine how difficult it must be when they are a legal adult - living in your home. I've read it is hard to get them committed, medicated or into treatment if they are not willing.
This is not coming from a judgemental place, just an observance - IMO, JR did not get the help he needed when he was younger. Many of the news stories have quotes from family members and others who knew this kid growing up. Red flags had been flying for well over a decade, with escalated concerns over behavior in the last two years. Sometimes a parent in an attempt to protect a child, end up covering and not addressing things. Especially if the parents don't agree on how to handle the child.
In regards to Erica and what she suffered. It sounds like Brian was on call that night, he last went out at 12:27 AM. I highly doubt Erica would have slept nude with Jr in the home and Brian on call. The sheets and comforter being removed from the bed she was found on is odd. Was Brian even in the home when Erica and her son were killed?
“When asked what Crossman Jr. was diagnosed with, [Bassett] advised possibly schizophrenia,” the affidavit reads.
I haven't experienced a child with mental health issues, but can imagine how difficult it must be when they are a legal adult - living in your home. I've read it is hard to get them committed, medicated or into treatment if they are not willing.
This is not coming from a judgemental place, just an observance - IMO, JR did not get the help he needed when he was younger. Many of the news stories have quotes from family members and others who knew this kid growing up. Red flags had been flying for well over a decade, with escalated concerns over behavior in the last two years. Sometimes a parent in an attempt to protect a child, end up covering and not addressing things. Especially if the parents don't agree on how to handle the child.
In regards to Erica and what she suffered. It sounds like Brian was on call that night, he last went out at 12:27 AM. I highly doubt Erica would have slept nude with Jr in the home and Brian on call. The sheets and comforter being removed from the bed she was found on is odd. Was Brian even in the home when Erica and her son were killed?
UPDATE: Son of Brian Crossman arrested on three counts of aggravated murder
GLENS FALLS, N.Y. — Brian Crossman Jr., 23, of Granville, New York has been arrested on three counts of aggravated murder arising from the fatal shootings of his father, 46-year-old Brian Crossman Sr.; his stepmother, 41-year-old Erica (Pawlusiak) Crossman; and his 13-year-old stepbrother, Colin...
Very detailed article about the crime scene, amd the suspects behavior and mental health.
Seems like the firearms all came from within the home:
"In a “gun room” adjacent to the bedroom, officers found “one firearm safe and two firearm cabinets and numerous other firearms.” "
I think there is often very little one can do to get help for a large, violent child living in their home. Psych holds are generally 72 hours, the police can't keep them in jail until they commit a serious crime, you can't force them to take their meds and group homes and residential care are often on wait lists or not covered by insurance. Our system's way of dealing with mentally ill violent youth is to do little to nothing until a serious crime is committed.
nhmemorymaker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2020
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 56,563
UPDATE: Son of Brian Crossman arrested on three counts of aggravated murder
GLENS FALLS, N.Y. — Brian Crossman Jr., 23, of Granville, New York has been arrested on three counts of aggravated murder arising from the fatal shootings of his father, 46-year-old Brian Crossman Sr.; his stepmother, 41-year-old Erica (Pawlusiak) Crossman; and his 13-year-old stepbrother, Colin...www.reformer.com
Very detailed article about the crime scene, amd the suspects behavior and mental health.
Seems like the firearms all came from within the home:
"In a “gun room” adjacent to the bedroom, officers found “one firearm safe and two firearm cabinets and numerous other firearms.” "
This article is just the most chilling account of a murder scene I have ever read. This young man seemed to have access to so many guns.
Hopefully someone more gun savvy will be able to indicate how many.
How did he get into the safe? How were the others stored? It appears that he was killing, maneuvering and planning and moving things and bodies for hours...
I also just cannot get over how much history, red flags and warnings. .....throughout his whole life.
Unbearably painful and sad..to so many relatives and others for a long time. With such a horrifying end.
BeginnerSleuther
Verified Physician
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2020
- Messages
- 2,924
- Reaction score
- 24,163
It always pains me to see mental health treatment not explained by professionals and consequently, misunderstood by the public.
That's not a slight against you at all. I'm just saying the medical community has done a poor job of explaining this so there are a lot of misunderstandings for that reason.
Let me address in general why the system is the way it is. And understand that I think we need improvements, but my idea of improvements are in the broader sense and may not have impacted the outcome of this case.
The truth is that a psych hold is not 72 hours. It's actually much longer WITH EVIDENCE that someone is dangerous. That's the key. They can keep you (in most states) for 72 hours for an evaluation. That's all the 72 hours refers to -- evaluation. That's it. After 72 hours, if the patient doesn't want to be there, then there has to be EVIDENCE that they are dangerous and that their dangerousness is a direct result of a diagnosable mental illness. If there is evidence of that, then you can keep them for as long as treatment takes, by court order.
There's a very good reason for these restrictions. It's because before we had parameters like this, then mental health holds were a form of abuse executed by abusive partners, parents, or anyone else looking to exploit someone, and because with mental illness, there's no lab test that will show someone is unstable, they could get away with it. For example, say a family can't take their rebellious child staying out past curfew. They could make up "bizarre" behavior and have the child locked up indefinitely in a mental hospital. When it's two parents against one child, the system was geared to believe the parents. Say a spouse wanted their spouse out of the way, they could have that person locked up based on behavior they claimed, even if the spouse (patient) didn't demonstrate that behavior when in mental health custody.
These are the types of abuses that could happen if we go back to the way things were. People even with anxiety could be locked up on a psych ward for months or years if there's no barriers to holding them. That's why laws were enacted to protect people from abusive psych holds, and most of the time, those laws work. Sure, there are times when people, like this kid in VT, fall through the cracks. But like with all laws, we have to take the good with the bad. You'll never hear about all the people saved by the 72-hour laws because those stories generally don't make it into the media, but they exist. I've seen them myself -- custody cases in which psych is used against one parent, step-parent/step-child conflict in which step-child is a "problem" and needs to be put away, etc. Laws are there to protect these individuals and that's important.
I'd also say that we need to be careful in terms of labeling this kid until we have a confirmed diagnosis which we may not. Not every criminal/murderer is mentally ill. Not every weird behavior is diagnosable mental illness. The statistics tell us that only 1% of the population has schizophrenia. Of that 1%, less than 15% ever get violent. Of that 15%, even less (I don't have the exact number here) ever murder anyone. So statistically speaking, it's very rare that someone has schizophrenia. It's very rare that someone has schizophrenia and demonstrates violent behavior. It's very rare that someone has schizophrenia and kills someone. In my experience, most people with schizophrenia are so paranoid that they become reclusive and fear being around people. Most don't have the skills to defend themselves or fight. A lot of these people who are untreated are terrified of just being in the world and they wouldn't hurt a fly. Yet, in the media and on public forums, it seems most murderers are labeled as having schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness when the truth is they're just plain criminals.
Knox
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2009
- Messages
- 31,271
- Reaction score
- 201,139
Agree, the description of the crime scene was so chaotic, I had to read through it several times to understand what was being described.
It was chilling to hear the recap of one conversation Erica had - with her friend advising to lock up all the guns.
In hindsight it always appears to be preventable, though I know that’s not the case. The “if only” in this case are haunting me.
Last edited:
Dotta
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2021
- Messages
- 12,661
- Reaction score
- 77,447
UPDATE: Son of Brian Crossman arrested on three counts of aggravated murder
GLENS FALLS, N.Y. — Brian Crossman Jr., 23, of Granville, New York has been arrested on three counts of aggravated murder arising from the fatal shootings of his father, 46-year-old Brian Crossman Sr.; his stepmother, 41-year-old Erica (Pawlusiak) Crossman; and his 13-year-old stepbrother, Colin...
Very detailed article about the crime scene, amd the suspects behavior and mental health.
Seems like the firearms all came from within the home:
"In a “gun room” adjacent to the bedroom, officers found “one firearm safe and two firearm cabinets and numerous other firearms.” "
This was chilling read indeed
Now
it seems to me the father was the perp's main aim.
The poor victims
RIP.
I cannot imagine the terror they felt seeing this unhinged giant aiming the gun at them.
Horrific
JMO