DatelineFan
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Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #2
- Thread starter KateB
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Treelights
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"January 26, 2016
The Snohomish County Medical Examiner’s Office has completed the identification of a 53-year old female who was found in the Snohomish River on January 20, 2016. The decedent is Marianne Humble of Monroe, WA. The Cause of death is fresh water drowning. The manner of death is Undetermined.
For further information, please contact the Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office.
January 22, 2016
The Snohomish County Medical Examiner’s Office has completed the identification of a 53-year old female who was found in the Snohomish River on January 20, 2016. The decedent is Marianne Humble of Monroe, WA. The cause and manner of death are pending further investigation
For further information, please contact the Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office."
http://www.snohomishcountywa.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/4414
DatelineFan
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Thanks @treelights! I think I read that last night. I'm having a hard time letting go of the possibility that these are related. I know it's not a popular theory, and I'm happy to stop discussing it, but I've thought about this quite a bit over the last 24 hours.
Would be interesting to know Pickards take on this. You can submit questions to MLT police through their city site.
kdg411
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The red tape in the photo's are not evidence markers. LE uses numbered tags so they can be logged into the case file. Those pieces of tape are placed on the vehicle so no one tampers with opening/entering the vehicle before it can be thoroughly processed by the crime lab. I hope that helped.
I would guess that the tape is anywhere the car could be opened so that then they would know for certain that no-one had tampered with it.
Treelights
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Yes, it helped tremendously!
I was wondering why there looked to be red tape on that pet carrier, too…
Well, now I know.
Thank you!
Treelights
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katydid23
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I agree. Washington is such a beautiful area. I'd think she'd drive a couple of miles and end it in a creek or a lovely field of trees. A ditch seems like such a weird place to end one's life voluntarily.
eucalyptuz
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Logging in after a few hours offline...this case is crazy. It has spun me around for a second time.
I really can't fathom the ME's update about self-inflicted cuts to the fingers! Surely nobody in LE would ever describe defense wounds as 'self-inflicted'? So, in my mind, that leaves two possibilities and I'm favoring the first:
1) The ME is not ready to make a conclusion about the time, cause and manner of death yet perhaps because of testing/temperature analysis etc. The media have been probing with questions about signs of bodily harm such as knife/bullet wounds and perhaps the LE made the statement about the cuts as they are the only visible signs of injury. It is possible these cuts were witnessed and commented upon by the volunteers who found the body. The description of them being self-inflicted probably just means that they have verified with family/friends that they were pre-existing as of Monday morning (possibly a kitchen mishap) and unrelated to her disappearance and death. Therefore the blood in car is also unrelated.
2)The cuts are part of the narrative and that narrative is suicide. The suicide is planned with overdose being the primary method and a knife being a back-up plan. I am unsure of the state of mind of a suicidal person but Sally Allen (UK) walked 11 miles through a rainy night before jumping into the Tyne. Susan McLean, an American holidaying in Scotland, walked several miles, also in the rain, to a forest before taking pills with vodka and lying down. So I do think it is possible that Cheryl may have walked in the rain, maybe with direction, maybe not, as she braved herself. The cuts on her fingers may have been from testing the sharpness of a knife that was found with her. I can not explain the culvert but perhaps she walked up the hill in the forest to the east sat down and took a lot of pills leading to disorientation and a bit of dizzy wandering before death.
This is the best I've got and like I say #1 is probably more possible than #2, but I do not think #2 is impossible.
I really can't fathom the ME's update about self-inflicted cuts to the fingers! Surely nobody in LE would ever describe defense wounds as 'self-inflicted'? So, in my mind, that leaves two possibilities and I'm favoring the first:
1) The ME is not ready to make a conclusion about the time, cause and manner of death yet perhaps because of testing/temperature analysis etc. The media have been probing with questions about signs of bodily harm such as knife/bullet wounds and perhaps the LE made the statement about the cuts as they are the only visible signs of injury. It is possible these cuts were witnessed and commented upon by the volunteers who found the body. The description of them being self-inflicted probably just means that they have verified with family/friends that they were pre-existing as of Monday morning (possibly a kitchen mishap) and unrelated to her disappearance and death. Therefore the blood in car is also unrelated.
2)The cuts are part of the narrative and that narrative is suicide. The suicide is planned with overdose being the primary method and a knife being a back-up plan. I am unsure of the state of mind of a suicidal person but Sally Allen (UK) walked 11 miles through a rainy night before jumping into the Tyne. Susan McLean, an American holidaying in Scotland, walked several miles, also in the rain, to a forest before taking pills with vodka and lying down. So I do think it is possible that Cheryl may have walked in the rain, maybe with direction, maybe not, as she braved herself. The cuts on her fingers may have been from testing the sharpness of a knife that was found with her. I can not explain the culvert but perhaps she walked up the hill in the forest to the east sat down and took a lot of pills leading to disorientation and a bit of dizzy wandering before death.
This is the best I've got and like I say #1 is probably more possible than #2, but I do not think #2 is impossible.
katydid23
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This is such a :rollercoaster: of a case.
Initially, I suspected her husband. It was really hard for me to accept that a random predator got a jump on her. I had read that she was already nervous about her security at that lot. So I figured she kept her doors locked and her eyes peeled. So I didn't understand how she was grabbed so quickly on such a busy street.
But this suicide scenario is even harder for me to accept at this point. Not that I don't believe she was capable of deciding to kill herself. But why there and then? She had dozens of better options. She could have driven anywhere, and done it that morning. Why an ugly drainage ditch? Why no note left to her son? I know people don't always leave notes. But she seemed very close to her boy and it seems odd, imo.
Initially, I suspected her husband. It was really hard for me to accept that a random predator got a jump on her. I had read that she was already nervous about her security at that lot. So I figured she kept her doors locked and her eyes peeled. So I didn't understand how she was grabbed so quickly on such a busy street.
But this suicide scenario is even harder for me to accept at this point. Not that I don't believe she was capable of deciding to kill herself. But why there and then? She had dozens of better options. She could have driven anywhere, and done it that morning. Why an ugly drainage ditch? Why no note left to her son? I know people don't always leave notes. But she seemed very close to her boy and it seems odd, imo.
Mountain Misst
FA in Aus.
http://www.crimestoppers.com/missing-person-cheryl-deboer-csops-220/
Here you go Treelights... thank you for info. All rather sad.
LuckyCat
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There were many, many volunteers over the weekend, to the point that they said they didn't need more. Local news said organizers decided to expand the search beyond the two parks and that's when they found her.
My own theory is that she left her car, realized she forgot her badge, texted her friend, and then surprised car prowlers or other crime in process. Park and rides and transit centers here are notorious for car prowlers. Add in a park that is scary and dangerous, and it's possible. Again, MOO.
LuckyCat
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Regarding the self inflicted cuts, all I can think is that maybe they had started to heal? Such an odd thing to publicize. The Snohomish County ME's office isn't exactly a bunch of inexperienced yahoos. It's quite busy and they got quite a bit of experience during the huge mudslide up there a while back.
Mrs. DeBoer did not walk over a mile away from her car to crawl into a culvert and commit suicide. Get that out of your minds.
The small cuts on two fingers is significant only if there are no other exterior wounds and the blood on the passenger side of the car is hers and it is only a tiny amount, a drop or a smear. The finger cuts then help to explain why there is blood there. The finger cuts do not indicate self-harm, suicide or death by bacterial infection from being in the drainage water. The small cuts do not come from any abductor or weapon. Self-inflicted means just that - caused by herself. The cuts do indicate she worked with papers or used a knife to cut food.
Meanwhile, LE urges everyone to not walk around in a fog wearing earphones. In other words, 'watch your surroundings'.
LE isn't going to release the cause of death until they are ready. LE will likely delay the announcement until forensics analysis is complete. It does not mean that LE isn't investigating the case and aren't already on the trail of the killer. LE isn't waiting on an ME decision or a final report before starting an investigation, they have been investigating since she disappeared.
She worked in the AIDS/HIV research department and someone posted earlier that she was a systems analyst. While it is possible that she uncovered some hanky panky at the hospital/medical center/whatever, it is not likely that the mythical person about to be exposed just by happenstance crossed paths with her on the same day she left her badge at home. There are a million wild-hair theories we can come up with but the simplest explanation is usually the right one. When you hear hooves, don't think 'zebras!'.
She was murdered and dumped in the culvert in the dark while there was no traffic. I do not think a random stranger hold on to her body until dark in order to dump it in that particular culvert.
Personally, I do not think she drove herself to the car park. I think she was already in the culvert when the text messages were sent back and forth. As for the blood on the passenger side, she could have cut herself bringing groceries into the house the night before.
These are my opinions, yours may vary.
The small cuts on two fingers is significant only if there are no other exterior wounds and the blood on the passenger side of the car is hers and it is only a tiny amount, a drop or a smear. The finger cuts then help to explain why there is blood there. The finger cuts do not indicate self-harm, suicide or death by bacterial infection from being in the drainage water. The small cuts do not come from any abductor or weapon. Self-inflicted means just that - caused by herself. The cuts do indicate she worked with papers or used a knife to cut food.
Meanwhile, LE urges everyone to not walk around in a fog wearing earphones. In other words, 'watch your surroundings'.
LE isn't going to release the cause of death until they are ready. LE will likely delay the announcement until forensics analysis is complete. It does not mean that LE isn't investigating the case and aren't already on the trail of the killer. LE isn't waiting on an ME decision or a final report before starting an investigation, they have been investigating since she disappeared.
She worked in the AIDS/HIV research department and someone posted earlier that she was a systems analyst. While it is possible that she uncovered some hanky panky at the hospital/medical center/whatever, it is not likely that the mythical person about to be exposed just by happenstance crossed paths with her on the same day she left her badge at home. There are a million wild-hair theories we can come up with but the simplest explanation is usually the right one. When you hear hooves, don't think 'zebras!'.
She was murdered and dumped in the culvert in the dark while there was no traffic. I do not think a random stranger hold on to her body until dark in order to dump it in that particular culvert.
Personally, I do not think she drove herself to the car park. I think she was already in the culvert when the text messages were sent back and forth. As for the blood on the passenger side, she could have cut herself bringing groceries into the house the night before.
These are my opinions, yours may vary.
My guess is on drug addicts living near the transit center. At first I didn't think she had gotten out of the car but after all of this. At least that scenario sounds feasible.
If she rushed to the park and ride (not where the car was found) got out quickly with her bag, headed to the place she expected to jump in the car - suddenly realized she didn't have her badge, gets her phone out, walking, juggling, someone has parked close to her, traps her - forces her into the passenger side of her car. Drives her somewhere - then kills her - freaks out - drives to the culvert, rolls her out.
Then drives the car to the overflow area where there are no cameras.
Self inflicted cuts on fingers sounds whacky. Defensive cuts? Pre-existing cuts? Minor cuts? But "self inflicted"???? Unless she bit herself, I can't even imagine.
If she rushed to the park and ride (not where the car was found) got out quickly with her bag, headed to the place she expected to jump in the car - suddenly realized she didn't have her badge, gets her phone out, walking, juggling, someone has parked close to her, traps her - forces her into the passenger side of her car. Drives her somewhere - then kills her - freaks out - drives to the culvert, rolls her out.
Then drives the car to the overflow area where there are no cameras.
Self inflicted cuts on fingers sounds whacky. Defensive cuts? Pre-existing cuts? Minor cuts? But "self inflicted"???? Unless she bit herself, I can't even imagine.
The two most likely explanations for CD's death are murder by an intimate acquaintance or suicide. Since LE ruled out MD and the ME released the detail about two cut fingers and no other visible wounds the discussion evolved to suicide. I'm not sure any of the participants actually believe suicide is likely. We were brainstorming for lack of a better explanation.
ETA: I find it unlikely old cuts that were healing would be mentioned. IMO the cuts were fresh and relevant.
ETA: I find it unlikely old cuts that were healing would be mentioned. IMO the cuts were fresh and relevant.
She did not make it to the transit center. If she did and something happened there they would already know who. The cameras in that park and ride are HD. It is a new facility. The way it is setup someone would have seen something. Most of the parking is in a open sided garage structure. Which means you can also see in from outside. Those arriving at the same time would generally park in the same area as the closer spots fill in.
Secondly the transit provider is VERY vocal in the community. If there was a risk of their customers they would issue a statement.
Get the park and ride out of your heads. It occurred NEAR a park and ride, not in it.
The police never canvassed the area looking for witnesses. Volunteers handed out fliers. If they thought it was a crucial scene they would have been present.
The most likely scenario is she noticed her badge was missing, pulled on the side street where she knows there is parking available to look for it. Once she couldn't find it she text the friend. She would not risk being stuck in the park and ride garage before she located it. It would have delayed her significantly just due to the traffic on that half block. Especially if she usually wore it around her neck. She would have noticed as she was driving. Something happened during the search just after she sent the text.
I literally leave my badge at home once every two weeks. I have to drive BACK home to get it or it's a huge pain to not be able to get in the building. Especially since I arrive before most of the staff. (I start at 7, they start at 9)
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Secondly the transit provider is VERY vocal in the community. If there was a risk of their customers they would issue a statement.
Get the park and ride out of your heads. It occurred NEAR a park and ride, not in it.
The police never canvassed the area looking for witnesses. Volunteers handed out fliers. If they thought it was a crucial scene they would have been present.
The most likely scenario is she noticed her badge was missing, pulled on the side street where she knows there is parking available to look for it. Once she couldn't find it she text the friend. She would not risk being stuck in the park and ride garage before she located it. It would have delayed her significantly just due to the traffic on that half block. Especially if she usually wore it around her neck. She would have noticed as she was driving. Something happened during the search just after she sent the text.
I literally leave my badge at home once every two weeks. I have to drive BACK home to get it or it's a huge pain to not be able to get in the building. Especially since I arrive before most of the staff. (I start at 7, they start at 9)
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