Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #5

[kammiemc]

Did this lady have any friends?
Someone she went to lunch and shopping with?
Someone she might maybe confide in?

Stryker mentioned that LE had spoken to something like 100 people. Maybe they did speak to some people she confided in and that is one reason that they are leaning away from homicide. I still think homicide is a possibility based on just the facts we know. But LE must know a lot more and are still finding things out. I hope the family gets answers.


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[Eileen730]

I have a question?
When the car was found by her husband did he go in it before LE arrived?

 

[kammiemc]

The MLT News page used the words "with a bag loosely secured over her head" towards the end of this most recent article :

http://mltnews.com/mlt-police-chief-shares-some-details-of-cheryl-deboer-investigation/

I guess at some point the bag had to have been NOT loose if the asphyxiation was caused by the bag. Unless the whole thing was staged and another bag was actually used and the fast food bag was just for show.


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[Treelights]

"DeBoer’s body was found lying face down in a culvert near the intersection of Cedar Way and 244th Street Southwest with a bag loosely secured over her head. It was a take-out bag from a fast food restaurant she frequented, Wilson said."

http://lynnwoodtoday.com/mlt-police-chief-shares-some-details-of-cheryl-deboer-investigation/

I wonder if this bag had Cheryl's name on it, considering it was take out. Did she order it by phone and picked it up?

I wonder if this particular bag belonged to Cheryl?

I wonder when was the last time Cheryl frequented this restaurant?

I wonder if it is a coincidence that Cheryl frequented this place and the bag is from the same place?

IMOO.

 

[DanceCard]

I guess at some point the bag had to have been NOT loose if the asphyxiation was caused by the bag. Unless the whole thing was staged and another bag was actually used and the fast food bag was just for show.


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I don't have an opinion about how/why/whether the bag was tied or loose.
I was just responding in that post to an earlier post referring to an article that said the bag was 'wrapped around' Chery'ls head.
I guess I was trying to demonstrate how the media can mislead by how they word things and how different media reports can give a different impression.

Edited to add : I actually had tried to quote the previous post in that response, so it woudl make sense. I hope I didn't screw up the quote <modsnip>

 

[Eileen730]

I guess at some point the bag had to have been NOT loose if the asphyxiation was caused by the bag. Unless the whole thing was staged and another bag was actually used and the fast food bag was just for show.


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The bag does not jhave to be tight. You die from hypoxia i believe its called you are only breathing in carbon dioxide no fresh air. You are not bei g suffocated like stranglation

 

[brandi]

and yet they make a late night reveal of branded bags and razor blades...this is just crazy. Please somebody there at MLT give us a comprehensive report or no report at all rather than this. It smacks choosing facts to suit theory and not in the interest of truth or discovery of truth.

It really smells like the burning rubber of a back peddle!

 

[Tillicum]

What if the animal blood on the floorboard came from a poorly packaged chicken or steak? It still wouldn't necessarily make sense why it was there but I'm just trying to look all possibilities.

 

[kammiemc]

Maybe there's no evidence of a struggle because she chose not to struggle, but instead to bide her time and look for an opportunity to escape.

Staging your suicide to make it look like murder... if we assume that's what this is, why keep the razor blade? That is a monkey wrench. I think it's much more likely that the blade happened to be in her pocket, forgotten about. Maybe she used it to get stickers off her car windows (I've used one for that). Who knows. My organization level sounds a lot like Cheryl's (messy desk, forgot badge, etc), and the pockets of my most frequently used coat are full of stuff. (I don't use a purse - and neither did Cheryl, so I think it's a valid comparison.) I couldn't even tell you what's in my coat pockets and I'm sure some of that stuff has been in there for months. So if the blade was one of many things found in her coat pocket, for example, it could be a red herring.

It would be a crazy coincidence that she happened to have a razor blade in her pocket on the Monday AM she was either killed or committed suicide. That would mean she remembered to grab a razor blade but not her work badge.

Btw, her forgetting her badge seems less probable to me now that we know she didn't carry a purse. I assumed she probably had thought it was in her purse then discovered she didn't have it, but she must have usually put on her badge in the morning if there was no usual place to hold it when she commuted.


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[Treelights]

Well ya know what?
We wanted More Info.
We got it.
Now we aren't happy with that?
I guess what they say is true,
Be careful for what you wish for.

To me, we have MORE knowledge about Cheryl's case.

We are the ones putting EMOTION into that knowledge, not LE.

IMOO.

 

[steelman]

Forget about the suicide theory for a minute and forget about the homicide theory for a minute. When all the parts of the story are compiled, they should begin to form an overall picture of what happened. Much like a puzzle, the more pieces you join together the clearer the total image becomes.

In this case, the more pieces we join together, the more unclear it becomes. So what does that mean ?

A) The pieces we're trying to join together don't fit together, but we're trying to force them to fit.

B) We have so many pieces of the puzzle missing and being held back that it is impossible to form a clear picture.

C) Both A & B.

D) We're putting pieces in this puzzle that don't belong in this puzzle. In other words, some of this "evidence" has nothing to do with her disappearance at all, but the way it's being presented makes it seem that way.

Case in point. Unbeknownst to all of us, Cheryl ran into town on Saturday and bought a bunch of pork ribs for a cookout on Sunday. Without realizing it, the pork ribs leaked all over the floorboard of the car while she was running around town doing errands. After arriving home, she pulls all the bags of groceries out of the car without realizing there was a bloody mess left behind in the floorboard.
She doesn't know about the blood, and only finds it Monday morning while on the way to work.

In this example---the animal blood would ultimately have no bearing at all on her disappearance, pro or con.

Other tidbits of released information may prove to be the same. The cops continue to issue teaser clips of information, but so far, they haven't prefaced their main press conference with a Spoiler Alert.

 

[kammiemc]

I don't have an opinion about how/why/whether the bag was tied or loose.
I was just responding in that post to an earlier post referring to an article that said the bag was 'wrapped around' Chery'ls head.
I guess I was trying to demonstrate how the media can mislead by how they word things and how different media reports can give a different impression.

Edited to add : I actually had tried to quote the previous post in that response, so it woudl make sense. I hope I didn't screw up the quote, or Bessie will be on my back !

Anyway, someone clarified that a bag doesn't have to be tight to cause hypoxia. Which totally makes sense. I guess I just imagined someone would tie it tight if they were attempting asphyxiation.


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[Mamamerced]

As to the cuts on Cheryl's fingers...
Possibly a test run for pain as suggested already.
If CD was in deep emotional pain/angst she may have cut herself to relieve pain. I wonder if there is autopsy evidence she was a cutter?

 

[Occam's Zebra]

Thanks Steelman. That was my point about the razor blade. We don't know if it's meaningful or not. If you choose to give it meaning, it is evidence toward suicide. If you choose not to, then suicide is no more believable than it was before.

As someone whose organizational and non-purse-carrying habits are similar to Cheryl's, I can believe that it had been in her pocket for quite some time, for some other reason. I'm not saying that's the truth - just a possibility.

As for not carrying a purse making it LESS likely for Cheryl to forget her badge - I don't follow. I don't carry a purse either. It actually makes it more likely I'll forget something, because I don't have a bag in which to put everything I need. I rely on my memory to collect what's needed before I get in the car - and sometimes memory fails.

She could have forgotten her badge on purpose, of course. But that has no bearing on whether she carried a purse or not.

 

[Eileen730]

Anyway, someone clarified that a bag doesn't have to be tight to cause hypoxia. Which totally makes sense. I guess I just imagined someone would tie it tight if they were attempting asphyxiation.


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This lady worked for a cancer and HIV research center im sure they know all to well how exit bags work.

 

[blue888]

It depends on where the gun was found, and what other evidence was accumulated. If there isn't enough evidence to support suicide, the ME will rule it undetermined.

My observation is that the text message, the self inflicted wounds, the walk away from the car, the bag/culvert fit a pattern that matches a lot of suicides. Are they enough by themselves, and with no evidence of another person being in contact with her, to make a determination? That's really up the ME. I've seen suicide rulings with about as little "direct" evidence of suicide, no homicide evidence, and the only "suicidal motivation" that they were "upset". At some point the ME just has to make a call; many get left as undetermined.

What evidence is there of "the walk away from the car"??

 

[krig101]

somebody dropped it on her to cause confusion and same goes for animal blood, this is just too weird to be normal evidence, someone is playing a game

This!

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[WhisperWorm]

So if the blade was one of many things found in her coat pocket, for example, it could be a red herring.

We don't know that it was in her coat pocket, but I'm not sure that matters.

Sure, I understand. I posted my comments because I think some folks here, and in the community, seem to feel that MLT LE has concluded that it definitely was suicide. I don't think that's accurate.

With saying that the community was in no extra danger right from the day she was found, it really feels like they've been leaning that way, though. So they may have been mixing emotion in with fact. Pickard was emphatic that there was no danger to the public.

What if the animal blood on the floorboard came from a poorly packaged chicken or steak? It still wouldn't necessarily make sense why it was there but I'm just trying to look all possibilities.

Case in point. Unbeknownst to all of us, Cheryl ran into town on Saturday and bought a bunch of pork ribs for a cookout on Sunday. Without realizing it, the pork ribs leaked all over the floorboard of the car while she was running around town doing errands. After arriving home, she pulls all the bags of groceries out of the car without realizing there was a bloody mess left behind in the floorboard.
She doesn't know about the blood, and only finds it Monday morning while on the way to work.

In this example---the animal blood would ultimately have no bearing at all on her disappearance, pro or con..

The red liquid in packaged meat is not blood. That's a common misconception. Blood is removed during the slaughtering process, and that red liquid left in the packages is called myoglobin mixed with water. Also, Stryker said it was enough to smear, and that type of red liquid doesn't smear. It wasn't from packaged meat.
firsthandfoods.com/files/misc/Common%20Consumer%20Questions.pdf

All RSBM

 

[MaryLamb]

This lady worked for a cancer and HIV research center im sure they know all to well how exit bags work.

I worked as a cancer researcher and am reasonably well informed. I'm the same age as Cheryl and I had never heard of an "exit bag" before. I imagine if she had researched suicide methods it would show up on her Internet search history. But they still haven't found the phone, right?

 

[steelman]

We don't know that it was in her coat pocket, but I'm not sure that matters.


With saying that the community was in no extra danger right from the day she was found, it really feels like they've been leaning that way, though. So they may have been mixing emotion in with fact. Pickard was emphatic that there was no danger to the public.





The red liquid in packaged meat is not blood. That's a common misconception. Blood is removed during the slaughtering process, and that red liquid left in the packages is called myoglobin mixed with water. Also, Stryker said it was enough to smear, and that type of red liquid doesn't smear. It wasn't from packaged meat.
firsthandfoods.com/files/misc/Common%20Consumer%20Questions.pdf

All RSBM

I'll let my old lady know all of this the next time she is cleaning blood out of the refrigerator because a package of round steak leaked all over everything. I'll let her know, "It's not really blood, so quit your complainin' ! "


Sorry....I won't be able to post her reply here.....too much profanity.