Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #7

[DanceCard]

Hmm...I guess I have to wonder if Cheryl wanted to commit suicide and didn't want to be found or identified immediately, what would make her think this culvert was the best place to do it?

IF this is suicide, the culvert seems like a reasonable choice to me. I can't begin to imagine what Chery's thought process was, if it was suicide, but the culvert gave her some privacy and time to carry this out without being disturbed. For someone who wants to be found eventually, as you say the culvert can be considered a good location.

She may have chosen to not do this at home because she didn't want her husband to be the one to find her, or because she didn't want to do it in their home where he may continue to live.

If she had chosen a different location she may never have been found. Her family and friends could have spent years or even forever wondering what happened to her.

All of that said, for the last several days I've been kind of on the fence but leaning towards suicide.
Yesterday that changed and I found myself leaning more towards homicide.
I'm not sure what kind of further evidence may exist that will cause me to be convinced of either.

Once again I really feel for Cheryl's family and friends.

 

[perfectingpink]

IF this is suicide, the culvert seems like a reasonable choice to me. I can't begin to imagine what Chery's thought process was, if it was suicide, but the culvert gave her some privacy and time to carry this out without being disturbed. For someone who wants to be found eventually, as you say the culvert can be considered a good location.

She may have chosen to not do this at home because she didn't want her husband to be the one to find her, or because she didn't want to do it in their home where he may continue to live.

If she had chosen a different location she may never have been found. Her family and friends could have spent years or even forever wondering what happened to her.

All of that said, for the last several days I've been kind of on the fence but leaning towards suicide.
Yesterday that changed and I found myself leaning more towards homicide.
I'm not sure what kind of further evidence may exist that will cause me to be convinced of either.

Once again I really feel for Cheryl's family and friends.

I am on the fence too.

 

[DanceCard]

I am on the fence too.

I don't think we're the only ones on that fence.
I can't get myself off it because I'm just not convinced by the possibilites in either scenario. :thinking:

I was thinking about Cheryl - again - last night and I'm really struggling to imagine how this can be determined one way or the other unless the phone/computer records provide something definitive. I'm hoping that LE has more evidence, information that hasn't yet been released publically.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I agree. Hopefully they'll find either electronic evidence of planning or something in the toxicology report so that the public can be sure. I know it will be difficult for the family to accept, if so. My thoughts are with her family and friends as this process moves slowly on.

It is possible that they will find nothing in the electronics as to planning. She could have had knowledge of this method, if this is suicide, for years. Just because so many of us never heard of this method doesn't mean she didn't. IMO.

 

[dizzychick]

did we ever find out where her folded glasses were found ?

 

[dizzychick]

look at these stats and then tell me she killed herself, seems to me the lack of evidence that people say mean she committed suicide is all the more reason I think it was a well planned homicide



http://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

 

[otto]

thank you! That's what I've always wondered....where were they supposed to meet up?

Cheryl was meeting her carpool at the Park and Ride. That was reported in one of the most recent news articles. It was not unusual for her car to be parked where it was found. Her husband found her car easily based on her parking habits.

I don't think we can draw a conclusion that because her car was in the overflow parking area, she intended to commit suicide.

"DeBoer was supposed to meet a friend at the park and ride and carpool to work, police have said."

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/body-found-in-mountlake-terrace/

 

[Stripehaven]

Also, she would not need to park this far away. That P&R should have had plenty of spots left at 7AM. Maybe she always parked out of the P&R lot on purpose? I doubt it. I have assumed she usually met her carpool in the lot like most commuters do.
Not up some side street.

This particular park and ride lot is pretty small, but with a large parking structure attached. I would think the lot might get hectic and that it could be easier to meet a couple of blocks away in the overflow street parking area. And again, after work, they could avoid some traffic by having parked a little ways away. So I would actually be more surprised if they tried to meet inside the lot.

 

[ANZAC]

look at these stats and then tell me she killed herself, seems to me the lack of evidence that people say mean she committed suicide is all the more reason I think it was a well planned homicide

http://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

What part of the statistics do you believe are salient?

 

[Stripehaven]

Me too, I haven't seen that info yet. Also, I am curious why LE requested video for a specific bus trip from Community Transit.. Perhaps it was because of a lead or tip, who knows. I wonder what they saw/found/were told/etc that they requested one specific trip? And from which camera? This was Feb 10 via Martin Munguia of Community Transit "They asked for a specific bus trip, the video for that trip, and we provided that to them."
http://www.kiro7.com/news/police-pu...ding-missing-mountlake-terrace-woman/71854430

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I577 using Tapatalk

What's interesting to me is that Community Transit's commuter buses to Seattle don't even stop at MLT; but Sound Transit's do. CT DOES have LOCAL buses that hit that P&R, though. Are they looking for her on the local that passes within 8 blocks of the culvert?

ETA: wait, I just remembered that CT's #408 does leave that P&R to head to Seattle. It arrives at the P&R via surface streets and does not stop at that big platform on the freeway median.

 

[ANZAC]

It's possible, depending on the flow of the current, (and yes, it can be swift) that evidence is even further downstream.

Sure. The 2nd search after the body was found probably looked up and downstream. My only point was that there may not have been a need to put up crime scene tape exactly where the body was found in the water. And very rarely would we put tape around a body of water. Definitely it would be a good evidence search candidate location.

Typically those locations are full of trash. Not every item is removed during a search of water. On roadside searches we wind up doing some kind of cleanup in the process, only to make real evidence more obvious, and to uncover it in case the tires/trash/whatever could be covering it up.

 

[Stripehaven]

A very good observation!

I've thought about Lake Ballinger a lot. To be blunt, I thought of weighting pockets and walking in via the boat ramp. But IMO that would be an extra horrible experience. I also wonder if there are people fishing this time of year at that hour.

Other access might be tricky. I know there is a little park now where the old golf course used to be, and the shore there is marshy. Not sure there would be a place she could have lay down and hidden. And kids might have found her there.

I also don't think you can reach the shore from the Nile golf course. It's wooded and the bank tends to drop off.

Other than that, I think you would have to go through someone's yard and have access only to private shore front. Highly visible.

ETA: And to get to Lake B, she would have had to walk right past the park and ride on the I-5 overpass. She might have been recognized, perhaps even by her carpoolers.

IMO, IF this was suicide, I think she may have been undecided even after she sent the text to her carpool. I think she may have shut off her phone so she could hear herself think. Then she may have tried test cuts and decided against that method. And then perhaps she decided to walk and figure things out. And as a creature of habit as most of us are, she walked a most familiar route, one that passed very close to her house. And walked and wandered for awhile. I am most sad to say that I can imagine very easily - all up until the actual act, which still seems to be a very difficult thing to accomplish. But to me, any scenario involving Lake Ballinger started to seem really cumbersome and unlikely.

 

[dizzychick]

What part of the statistics do you believe are salient?

men are more likely than women, white men in middle age

guns are used over 50 %

 

[Treelights]

This particular park and ride lot is pretty small, but with a large parking structure attached. I would think the lot might get hectic and that it could be easier to meet a couple of blocks away in the overflow street parking area. And again, after work, they could avoid some traffic by having parked a little ways away. So I would actually be more surprised if they tried to meet inside the lot.

If that could be true, where was the car pool driver then when she was waiting for Cheryl?

You would think that this car pool driver would have driven on that street waiting for Cheryl, looking for Cheryl?

Was the car pool driver waiting for Cheryl in the big parking lot then?

When Cheryl didn't show and Cheryl didn't answer back did the car pooler take a drive on that street that

Cheryl's car was parked on? Or did they figure since she didn't answer that she must have taken a bus?

IMOO.

 

[Treelights]

What other facts do we know about Cheryl that happened days before Cheryl went missing?

Cheryl got a new cat on Friday.

Did Cheryl pick up the cat, or was the cat brought over to Cheryl's house?

What else did Cheryl do that weekend?

Where else did Cheryl go?

Who came over that weekend?

IMOO.

 

[Stripehaven]

If that could be true, where was the car pool driver then when she was waiting for Cheryl?

You would think that this car pool driver would have driven on that street waiting for Cheryl, looking for Cheryl?

Was the car pool driver waiting for Cheryl in the big parking lot then?

When Cheryl didn't show and Cheryl didn't answer back did the car pooler take a drive on that street that

Cheryl's car was parked on? Or did they figure since she didn't answer that she must have taken a bus?

IMOO.

All good questions. The driver probably did wait in the actual lot, come to think of it, since I believe someone said that she sometimes did walk that shortcut path to the lot.

 

[Treelights]

IF this is suicide, the culvert seems like a reasonable choice to me. I can't begin to imagine what Chery's thought process was, if it was suicide, but the culvert gave her some privacy and time to carry this out without being disturbed. For someone who wants to be found eventually, as you say the culvert can be considered a good location.

She may have chosen to not do this at home because she didn't want her husband to be the one to find her, or because she didn't want to do it in their home where he may continue to live.

If she had chosen a different location she may never have been found. Her family and friends could have spent years or even forever wondering what happened to her.

All of that said, for the last several days I've been kind of on the fence but leaning towards suicide.
Yesterday that changed and I found myself leaning more towards homicide.
I'm not sure what kind of further evidence may exist that will cause me to be convinced of either.

Once again I really feel for Cheryl's family and friends.

I am wondering if the culvert was symbolic?

Did she feel like her life was in the gutter (not that it was).

Did she learn something that was covert, covered up, like the water in the culvert, unseen?

The culvert was close to home. Why pick the culvert if it was suicide?

IMOO.

 

[Occam's Zebra]

I'm not following the idea that she committed suicide but did it in a thoughtful way so that she wouldn't be found at home, or found right away.

Let's just say that's the case - she committed suicide in such a mysterious way that no one is sure whether it's murder or suicide. How is THAT considerate of her family? Okay, I'll commit suicide but kinda make it look like murder, but it won't be murder, so family and friends will never know what really happened....?

Losing someone to suicide is horrible. But losing someone and never knowing why - I would argue that is worse. No opportunity for closure.

Cheryl did not sound like the kind of person who would want to leave her family without any answers.

 

[ANZAC]

men are more likely than women, white men in middle age

guns are used over 50 %

We see plenty of suicides of women, some by drowning. Some cases have to make up the statistics....
Your stat says a suicide is more likely to be a man, not that a given death is more likely to be a suicide. (as deaths is not the denominator)

Also, suicides FAR outweigh homicides, so if you want to apply statistics to a given death, suicides occur 5x as often as homicides (in SnoCo)

http://wa-snohomishcounty.civicplus.com/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/4229

Some interesting stuff on p23/24. Drowning and non-hanging asphyxia not very common. Poisons/drugs most common COD for female suicide.

 

[Treelights]

Why the razor blade and and animal blood?

Symbolic? Another meaning to why someone would use a razor blade?

We have read about cleaning her glass stove top with the razor blade. We have read about detangling matted cat fur ( whether she used the blade to do that, I don't know&#8230

The blood symbolic of an animal?? It's animal blood.

Are these signs clues to something else without Cheryl coming out and saying it? Why would Cheryl leave clues?

Do these things mean anything, something, nothing?

Such a puzzlement!

IMOO.