Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #7

[margarita25]

This is where Jessica Ridgeway was found.

Five days later. Workers picking up trash in Pattridge Park open space discovered a plastic bag near a culvert that "looked strange." Inside were human remains that later were identified as Jessica Ridgeway's. (RJ Sangosti, The Denver Post)

Ugh I think I posted a wrong picture by accident argh, the second attachment, sorry about that. The first one is right.

 

[Sun009]

Not necessarily. If she was suffocated in her car from someone in the backseat, pushed to the side, driven to the culvert, put into the water while unconscious, there would be no injuries. Furthermore, water is the investigators worst enemy in terms of finding evidence.

She has a cut on a finger on each hand. That could be from the razor in her pocket, and it could be from cutting her fingers on a plastic bag while trying to prevent suffocation. Both a plastic bag and a razor could result in a narrow cut that could be interpreted as due to the razor (which oddly is in her pocket), or a plastic cut.

That reminds of how getting takeout with a plastic bag secured over the food, can result in having to put your finger tip in the knot, to loosen it up, before you can start ripping the bag off.

 

[ANZAC]

Well. Cuts on the fingers (defensive wounds). Blood in the car. Maybe along the handles trying to get out. There might even be a bag and tie overy your head.

Can someone please tell me again how defensive wounds were ruled out. Thanks.

MLT PD said the ME said the cuts were self inflicted. If they were not sure they would say they were not sure.

 

[otto]

This is where Jessica Ridgeway was found.

Five days later. Workers picking up trash in Pattridge Park open space discovered a plastic bag near a culvert that "looked strange." Inside were human remains that later were identified as Jessica Ridgeway's. (RJ Sangosti, The Denver Post)

Ugh I think I posted a wrong picture by accident argh, second attachment?

Thank you for finding those. The culvert is a wide open culvert, just like where Cheryl was found. Across the street from that culvert, there was as building and a parking area.

 

[ANZAC]

I think what investigators were holding back was the fact that they were leaning towards suicide, and that information is "sensitive". That is, it's no one's business how she was found if it was suicide.

Well that's the big issue, with all the public interest, and the fear that has been spread that there is a "killer on the loose", they're going to have to give out some information to support suicide (if that's what the ME rules), once they talk to the family.

 

[ANZAC]

To me this is the bottom line. And she had a .357. And was claustrophobic.

Now, I can understand that when emotional vulnerability hits, it hits, and rationality might go out the door, but let's go with human instinct. Wouldn't she go home and get her gun?

(Ok, I can already see, my "human instinct" statement is going to get challenged. What I mean by this is as quick as painless as possible. In other words, I'm in pain, let's get this over with as quickly and painlessly as possible.)

Again, throw tomatoes at me.

As mentioned before, though some women due use guns to commit suicide, it is far from their preferred method.

 

[ANZAC]

I wonder how many people have killed themselves over a severe migraine? Like a intentional/unintentional situation? Those can be very severe & the suffering lasts many hours, to the point where someone is aware of how long they've been suffering. And you are pretty much at the mercy of a hospital or Dr...to give you an injection...and that's not always so easy for most people to get there. I could see how putting a gun to your head, could be impulsive in a situation like that.

I think any type of chronic condition that leads to extended pain or discomfort or lack of mobility could push some people towards suicide.

 

[otto]

MLT PD said the ME said the cuts were self inflicted. If they were not sure they would say they were not sure.

The ME had to say something about the cuts, so with the bag on her head, face down in a culvert, and a razor blade in her pocket, we know what the ME concluded. However, have a look at the case of Michele McNeill. The ME determined that she died due to heart problems - which could not be further from the truth.

 

[Sun009]

Hmm. So yeah, the most defensive wounds would probably be in the spot you are defending against. This case, the source of where the tightness would be. And sometimes you have to put your finger tips inside the knot seems.

 

[otto]

Well that's the big issue, with all the public interest, and the fear that has been spread that there is a "killer on the loose", they're going to have to give out some information to support suicide (if that's what the ME rules), once they talk to the family.

Not all of the evidence has been processed, and the manner of death is, at this time, "undetermined". That may not change.

 

[ANZAC]

That is one of the first thoughts I had as well - that the culvert is more likely a place where someone dumps a body.

The only real advantage to the culvert is the water destroying evidence. If you didn't want the body to be found, in the trees/undergrowth is a better idea, especially away from roads/paths. Of course many killers are not very smart.

 

[otto]

As mentioned before, though some women due use guns to commit suicide, it is far from their preferred method.

So is drowning in a ditch.

 

[otto]

Hmm. So yeah, the most defensive wounds would probably be in the spot you are defending against. This case, the source of where the tightness would be. And sometimes you have to put your finger tips inside the knot seems.

The ME is drawing a conclusion based on inductive logic to state that the injuries were self-inflicted. That the cuts to two fingers were self-inflicted cannot be stated as a fact.

 

[ANZAC]

I suspect that what happened is that the ME discovered a cut on one finger on each hand, looked for a blade, and concluded that the cuts were self-inflicted. That is, the ME will look at cuts to attempt to identify the type of blade that caused the cuts. In this case, the cuts may be narrow. There was a razor blade in Cheryl's pocket. That is most likely how the conclusion was made that the cuts were self-inflicted.

I'm not sold on suicide, but we sometimes have to run down all of the rabbit holes in order to understand whether a theory is feasible.

It is possible there were latent prints on the razor blade, even after being in the water. Sometimes the skin oil can last quite a while, I know have got prints from a gun in the water. (also metal)

Typically they will match cuts to an implement. If they matched the cuts to the razor, and had prints on the razor, that could be quite solid.

 

[otto]

The only real advantage to the culvert is the water destroying evidence. If you didn't want the body to be found, in the trees/undergrowth is a better idea, especially away from roads/paths. Of course many killers are not very smart.

It's very likely that Cheryl went into the culvert on the East side, especially given that she was found in the culvert. Water is known to destroy evidence, so a creek culvert is an ideal location to hide a body and destroy evidence.

Jessica Ridgeway was found in a culvert. The convicted murderer was 17 years old at the time, did not know Jessica, and chose her randomly. He was fascinated with forensic techniques.

 

[ANZAC]

Yes to all this...and.... why bother to text that she probably would ride home with the car pool friend. Yes, she could have been debating her fate at that moment but all of her morning actions indicate to me that she was in the midst of the Monday morning rush to work and intended to put in a normal day until something /someone interfered.

I am pretty sure (based on my own opinion and nothing much else) that she sent the text AFTER she decided to end her life. The text was sent so the carpool friends would not wonder where she was.

 

[otto]

It is possible there were latent prints on the razor blade, even after being in the water. Sometimes the skin oil can last quite a while, I know have got prints from a gun in the water. (also metal)

Typically they will match cuts to an implement. If they matched the cuts to the razor, and had prints on the razor, that could be quite solid.

First, I would be surprised if there were any fingerprints on the razor blade if it was submerged in water for 6 days. Second, prints on the razor blade would mean that the blade belonged to Cheryl. There's is a leap from Cheryl touching a razor blade, and cuts to Cheryl's fingers being self-inflicted, or a step in the process of committing suicide.

Using fingers to break a plastic bag can leave a narrow cut on fingers as well.

 

[otto]

I am pretty sure (based on my own opinion and nothing much else) that she sent the text AFTER she decided to end her life. The text was sent so the carpool friends would not wonder where she was.

If Cheryl wanted to be sure that the carpool went ahead without her, she would not have told them that it would take 10 minutes to collect her badge, and then gone silent. She would have assured them that she would take a train.

As it was, the carpool waited 30 minutes for some sort of response from Cheryl about whether they should wait, or go without her.

 

[margarita25]

I think any type of chronic condition that leads to extended pain or discomfort or lack of mobility could push some people towards suicide.

This is true. My back hurts every day. I've thought about it.

 

[kammiemc]

Ok, here is my opinion/theory. LE knoooows it isn't suicide.

In that case, are you thinking LE has a suspect in mind and are misleading the public (misleading might be too strong a word) in order to keep the suspect in the dark so they can gather more evidence? I can't reconcile a homicide scenario unless it was very personal.