Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #8

[dizzychick]

Who said they were folded and found? That was not published in the news.

it was talked about and I do not know who started it sorry it was several days ago if not a week or two, the phrase was glasses found, folded, it was more info leading to suicide I think

 

[ANZAC]

Facebook isn't the same as publishing.

I don't think there's much difference between social media from the mainstream media and their actual broadcasts, and none of it is like "publishing". There is little to no fact checking, gross errors made all the time, and a bloodthirsty competitive rush to get the scoop on the other news channels - if it bleeds it leads.

(Not saying anything bad about Q13, the WMW reporters are pretty good, Parella Lewis used to be a police officer....)

It is sometimes difficult to get those inaccuracies corrected. You can make updated releases - or attempt to clarify a point but there is little incentive for TV/news media to make corrections...

 

[dizzychick]

here is the news story that WAS published regarding folded glasses, its a pay sight so i cant see the entire article

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20160323/NEWS01/160329601

 

[Native Pride]

here is the news story that WAS published regarding folded glasses, its a pay sight so i cant see the entire article

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20160323/NEWS01/160329601

I Dont pay and i can read the whole article bit this is was midway down.......Wilson said DeBoer's car was locked and there were no signs of a struggle. Although blood spots were found inside her car and there were cuts on her fingers, medical experts determined that they were self-inflicted.
She was found in a large culvert containing a creek. Her clothes were not disheveled and there were no tears in the fabric. Her glasses were folded. Brambles covering the eastside of the culvert had not been disturbed. There were no signs of disturbance to the ground along the west side of the culvert, Wilson said............http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20160323/NEWS01/160329601

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

I don't think there's much difference between social media from the mainstream media and their actual broadcasts, and none of it is like "publishing". There is little to no fact checking, gross errors made all the time, and a bloodthirsty competitive rush to get the scoop on the other news channels - if it bleeds it leads.

(Not saying anything bad about Q13, the WMW reporters are pretty good, Parella Lewis used to be a police officer....)

It is sometimes difficult to get those inaccuracies corrected. You can make updated releases - or attempt to clarify a point but there is little incentive for TV/news media to make corrections...

Yeah; not as deeply involved as you are but had experience of watching the media pretty much build their story on what they find on Twitter and Facebook, and sell it as truth because they can't get an official line. They often don't seem to care if they endanger lives or prosecutions, as long as they're first on the screen with something to say.

 

[Lins1983]

ok...heres my idea and maybe it was stated and I just read too fast and didn't see it.
LE seems to be leaning toward suicide based on media I have seen. however if a zip tie was used then in my opinion that seems like homicide. so maybe LE wants to lull the person or persons responsible into thinking they are safe. that could be the one piece of evidence that would prove homicide rather than suicide. in that case I could see them asking the reporter not to share that info. just my :twocents:

 

[Eileen730]

ok...heres my idea and maybe it was stated and I just read too fast and didn't see it.
LE seems to be leaning toward suicide based on media I have seen. however if a zip tie was used then in my opinion that seems like homicide. so maybe LE wants to lull the person or persons responsible into thinking they are safe. that could be the one piece of evidence that would prove homicide rather than suicide. in that case I could see them asking the reporter not to share that info. just my :twocents:

Jmo
If she was bound with a zip tie there would be marks also they are not easily removed unless cut.

 

[kdg411]

Jmo
If she was bound with a zip tie there would be marks also they are not easily removed unless cut.

I believe the reporters response when asked by Han was

Answer: I deleted it because I don't have any information about it other than that testing is being done on a tie that was found.

We shouldn't assume that the evidence found in the culvert by LE was indeed a zip tie because that information has not been provided to the public. Unless someone here is a criminal medical investigator or forensic analyst I don't believe we have the expertise to advise what (if any) marks may be left on a body by this type of apparatus.

 

[otto]

Why would a zip tie not leave marks at the elbows?

Wasn't she wearing a coat?

 

[Mistree]

I like your thinking Otto.

 

[kdg411]

Wasn't she wearing a coat?

http://www.kiro7.com/news/fred-hutchinson-employee-missing-after-car-found-near-transit-center/68483639

She was wearing dark pants and a dark jacket.

 

[TeaTime]

There were no marks on Cheryl to suggest that she was restrained. A zip tie was found in the area. If the zip tie was used to restrain her, and there are no marks on her body, perhaps the zip tie was placed closer to her elbows.

N'est pas?

Je parles. The question I was asking, although shortened, was an investigative one - asking how could it be that the zip tie would not leave marks where ever it was placed? The answer I was hoping to get was "because she had on a long sleeved jacket/sweater." A long sleeved jacket/sweater with a razor blade in the pocket.

Now. If there was a zip tie associated with this crime, it would either still be on the body or cut in two and near enough to the body to be taken by CSI. I do not think LE would be confused about suicide versus murder if Mrs. DeBoer were found tied at the elbows. Therefore the alleged zip tie would likely be cut in two and perhaps we have a reason for the razor blade in her pocket. It would be very easy to submerge someone in shallow water if their arms are tied together at the elbows, it is almost a handle for control, and even more so if that person is unconscious because they have had a plastic bag around their head too long. Then after taking the phone and wallet, drop the razor blade in the pocket.

A zip tie might also have a sliver of a thread of her clothing still attached to it, even in water. This would be such a great piece of evidence.

Why would the reporter post 'zip tie", a very distinct object that can not be confused with anything else, if he wasn't told this by someone? And, it must have been the kind of zip tie that would be capable of binding a person, not one for a bread bag, other wise why even mention it to the reporter?

 

[otto]

Je parles. The question I was asking, although shortened, was an investigative one - asking how could it be that the zip tie would not leave marks where ever it was placed? The answer I was hoping to get was "because she had on a long sleeved jacket/sweater." A long sleeved jacket/sweater with a razor blade in the pocket.

Now. If there was a zip tie associated with this crime, it would either still be on the body or cut in two and near enough to the body to be taken by CSI. I do not think LE would be confused about suicide versus murder if Mrs. DeBoer were found tied at the elbows. Therefore the alleged zip tie would likely be cut in two and perhaps we have a reason for the razor blade in her pocket. It would be very easy to submerge someone in shallow water if their arms are tied together at the elbows, it is almost a handle for control, and even more so if that person is unconscious because they have had a plastic bag around their head too long. Then after taking the phone and wallet, drop the razor blade in the pocket.

A zip tie might also have a sliver of a thread of her clothing still attached to it, even in water. This would be such a great piece of evidence.

Why would the reporter post 'zip tie", a very distinct object that can not be confused with anything else, if he wasn't told this by someone? And, it must have been the kind of zip tie that would be capable of binding a person, not one for a bread bag, other wise why even mention it to the reporter?

That is exactly the scenario where it was a murder, where the cut zip tie is related to the murder, and at the same time there is no evidence of being restrained.

 

[TeaTime]

That is exactly the scenario where it was a murder, where the cut zip tie is related to the murder, and at the same time there is no evidence of being restrained.

And the razor blade would now make sense. But then, the zip tie is little more than gossip I suppose.

 

[ANZAC]

Now. If there was a zip tie associated with this crime, it would either still be on the body or cut in two and near enough to the body to be taken by CSI.

First off, there's no "CSI" here. There are detectives, officers/deputies, SAR, ME attendants, ME doctors, sometimes an "evidence tech" (rare).

Something like a zip tie would be located (by SAR if further from the body, or LE if closer), documented (by LE), collected (probably by detectives unless somewhere they needed SAR to access).

It is also possible the zip tie was complete and unused or complete and in a loop. It could have been located in the general vicinity. Like I said, a lot of flotsam and jetsam is collected if thought it MIGHT be relevant, and then tested later.

We do distinguish between "old" and "new" trash, so a years old bottle with a faded label would not be collected, but something that could possibly be contemporary with the disappearance up until now would be collected.

 

[Sea gull]

I was at a BBQ tonight talking with friend about this case because she wasn't familiar with it. I said to her something to the effect of " it seems so unlikely that someone could kill themselves by placing a bag over their head with no drugs or sedation" and my friend replied, " that's how my grandma killed herself, just put a bag over her head until she stopped breathing". I said "no Valium, Benadryl anything?" And she said, "nope, she just wanted to die because she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and didn't want to go into a nursing home so she just asphyxiated herself". I was kind of in shock but I guess people do use that method.

 

[Lilibet]

I was at a BBQ tonight talking with friend about this case because she wasn't familiar with it. I said to her something to the effect of " it seems so unlikely that someone could kill themselves by placing a bag over their head with no drugs or sedation" and my friend replied, " that's how my grandma killed herself, just put a bag over her head until she stopped breathing". I said "no Valium, Benadryl anything?" And she said, "nope, she just wanted to die because she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and didn't want to go into a nursing home so she just asphyxiated herself". I was kind of in shock but I guess people do use that method.

My Mom told me about method that years ago. She was in a retirement community and apparently the bag method was used occasionally. I still have trouble understanding how you could use it without sedation. You'd want to rip it off. But I guess it's possible. I wonder how senior citizens discovered that method in the days before the Internet. I guess word of mouth or just logic. Very sad.

 

[PLT]

I was at a BBQ tonight talking with friend about this case because she wasn't familiar with it. I said to her something to the effect of " it seems so unlikely that someone could kill themselves by placing a bag over their head with no drugs or sedation" and my friend replied, " that's how my grandma killed herself, just put a bag over her head until she stopped breathing". I said "no Valium, Benadryl anything?" And she said, "nope, she just wanted to die because she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and didn't want to go into a nursing home so she just asphyxiated herself". I was kind of in shock but I guess people do use that method.

When I first heard of the method, I envisioned oxygen being cut off and struggling to breathe but several members here responded to my posts that the person still breathes normally but passes out when they begin breathing less oxygen and more carbon dioxide. I still am not sure of the bodily reaction myself. In any event, I don't doubt the method as much as the location in this case. I can't reconcile performing this at the culvert. I may be able to accept outdoors if she were found outdoors near their mountain home/cabin, or by a secluded lake....but the culvert bothers me too much. I would re-consider if it's discovered that the location held special meaning to CD or if something special in her life occurred there - for example engagement, first met husband , etc.

Was this area much different years ago perhaps? In other words, were roads and the landscaping such that people gathered there more?

 

[otto]

And the razor blade would now make sense. But then, the zip tie is little more than gossip I suppose.

Hard to say as there's information from press releases, and there's information from direct observation by reporters.

 

[otto]

My Mom told me about method that years ago. She was in a retirement community and apparently the bag method was used occasionally. I still have trouble understanding how you could use it without sedation. You'd want to rip it off. But I guess it's possible. I wonder how senior citizens discovered that method in the days before the Internet. I guess word of mouth or just logic. Very sad.

Don't you remember being a child and being told to not put plastic bags on your head, or having children and knowing that you needed to tie plastic bags and put them out of reach of children to prevent them from putting the bags on their heads?

What I find odd is the choice of a drainage ditch for suicide.