WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #3

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Hey guys, long time ::blushing:

I've went through a lot of changes with the simulation. different computers, and software issues etc. I finally got things in order and I will be making a mini series leading up to the official flight path run.

The first video will give a detailed look at the Boeing 727 and all it's features inside & out. the second video will look at other possibilities with the flight path. basically the theories of a eastern, and western path. the final video will be the following of the official FBI flight path with the transcripts following along with the flight. this will be the largest project I've done to date. here is the movie trailer I made last week. I'll keep you posted with the release in the future. I don't have a time set in stone as of yet, but the process is in play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3waV0APRscE
 
He's not exactly a match to the physical profile and wrong age. Various people have spent a lot of time trying to knock down the FBI profile and the age. Likewise, the FBI's partial profile, which to my knowledge nobody has ever seen to know any details of, except for the FBI (techs). If you knock down all admission criteria on some ground, then you might be able to squeak R2D2 in? Otherwise maybe just get a dna sample for Lepsy or his children, send it to the FBI, and see what happens? What other options are there, really? I mean in the end the whole case rests on "evidence. You have to agree on something and start somewhere. As Ckret said to Jo Weber: "Put him on the plane". Happy Holidays to all.
 
This case has always fascinated me reading all the posts has been very interesting.
 
Hi, I'm newly registered here but have been lurking for a number of years now. Just going to add my 2 cents.

I've read through all three of these Cooper threads over the past three or four years and they truly are fascinating. However, I think that although Myers and Dvorak did some excellent work, Teddy Mayfield wasn't the right man. I suspect he probably appreciated the attention he was getting, and where's the harm in a used-up old con pretending to be a folklore hero? However, when things got 'serious' he appeared to deny it outright, and began lying. I can absolutely understand why certain people were - and perhaps still are - convinced that Mayfield is Cooper, but I personally am doubtful of this. I have no idea if the FBI have a copy of Mayfield's prints, but if they do and they have been able to rule him out based on that evidence (or lack of) then that may be why they've remained quiet about him for all these years. Given that the Cooper hijacking is still an open case, that may explain why the FBI are reluctant to publicly rule out certain suspects.

My own theory is that Cooper was probably either Canadian or at least familiar with and living in Canada at that time. The CitizenSleuths website gives - in my opinion - a fairly plausible synopsis of events, and the fact that the hijacker originally requested to fly to Mexico City automatically casts doubt over Mayfield, whose primary alibi was that he claimed to have phoned the FBI (from his home) within two hours of the hijacking. Had the hijacker's original request been met, what would Mayfield's alibi - if he had been the hijacker - then have been? Just some food for thought, although I have other reasons for discounting Mayfield.

As tempting as it is to muse over the various primary suspects ala Mayfield, Weber, Christiansen, Gossett, et al, I honestly do not believe any of them were the hijacker, and - as I mentioned above with Mayfield - I suspect the FBI have also come to this conclusion, or we're likely to have heard something by now.

Boring though it is, I do not think the hijacker has so far been identified at all, and I am not absolutely convinced he ever will be. I certainly hope I am wrong on that count, though. In cases such as this, my initial thought is always 'if there's no body, they probably survived' and given that neither a body nor parachute nor the bulk of the money has ever been found - and statistically, it's pretty likely that over a period of 45 years that at least one of these would have been - I am inclined to believe the hijacker survived, and probably fled north to Canada.

Assuming you believe the letters sent to the various local newspapers are genuine, then that confirms the hijacker survived and therefore that no body will ever be found. However, it is of course possible they were forgeries sent by an interested third party.

Finally, given that so many well-known suspects have been accused of almost certainly being the hijacker due to X, Y and Z factors, and that their families, friends and followers are utterly convinced of this, we're clearly in a situation where - to some extent - people actually want 'their man' to have been the hijacker, either openly or at least subconsciously. Given that clearly only one of these suspects can have been the hijacker, and I honestly believe that none of them were, then we have to accept that - short of a matching print, which would likely be the smoking gun in this case - the other evidence is just so vague and circumstantial that almost anyone within a certain set of criteria (general physical likeness, a degree of skydiving experience, possibly ex-military, possibly a chain-smoker, possibly a drinker) can be put forward as a suspect - and the more unusual their personality the better.

Another thing that worries me about the Cooper hijacking is the obsession with trying to accurately match photos of suspects with the various sketches of the hijacker. Let's be absolutely clear: these sketches are a vague composite likeness of the hijacker based on multiple eyewitness accounts, they are not photographs or otherwise exact images. Indeed, one of the sketches was made some 17 years after the hijacking, or so I've read. So, given that we can be fairly certain that the hijacker did not look exactly like any of these sketches (and that's not to say they didn't bear a resemblance, which they presumably will have) and that various passengers and flight staff described the hijacker slightly differently and with varying degrees of consistency - which is perfectly understandable given that different people saw him from different angles, for different lengths of time, people's memories work differently and that some witnesses will have been more scared or under pressure than others - then we have to conclude that it is extremely unlikely that any photo of the suspect will look exactly like any of the sketches. This is a point I don't recall being raised, and one which seems obvious to me; I mean, the idea that (in an example I've seen posted above) the hijacker's ears would look exactly like the ears on one of the sketches... to me, that's just reaching, surely?

In a crime such as this, given all the various factors in play and just how long ago it was, I simply do not find it credible that it will ever be solved by visual identification. The hijacker was just too generic-looking to be caught out by this fact alone, and that he was described as having no discernable accent and may even have been wearing makeup (something I've read a lot of, particularly with regards to Mayfield) only lessens the utility of the sketches. I mean, let's be honest, if the FBI were going by visual likeness alone then Bing Crosby's final years would have been very, very different.

I'm not sure if this has ever been done (probably) but I do think an interesting experiment would be to ask a friend to introduce you to a friend of theirs whom you - and several of your other friends - have never met, and then describe him or her to a sketch artist several hours later, having made no notes of this person's appearance. The sketch artist then produces a composite sketch - or even multiple individual sketches - of that person, based on your collective descriptions of him or her, and the sketches can then be compared to a photograph of that person taken at the time you met them.

I can promise you that none of the sketches will look 'virtually identical' (a common phrase we hear in this case) to the friend you all met for the first time and had been asked to describe. It is very difficult to describe someone physically - even with any physical flaws or features you have remembered - to such an extent that it will resemble them absolutely when compared to photographic evidence. And of course, one of the problems with the hijacker is that there is very little to distinguish him physically, and particularly details that we're expected someone who'd never met him to have remembered hours, days or weeks after the fact. I daren't imagine how many 'mystery solved' letters and e-mails the FBI must have had since 1972; a photograph of a fairly generic-looking dark-haired man in a suit who smoked, drank, had parachuted a few times and demonstrated 'odd behaviour' from time to time. 'Oh my god, it's uncle Lynn! He was a smart guy, he could have done it, and he even used his real surname...' No.

We're talking hundreds of thousands of people, potentially. It's not surprising that I once read a rumour that Don Draper from Man Men would perhaps become 'D.B. Cooper' in that show's finale, as it would have been a good indicator of just how any pissed off middle-aged, middle management kind of guy could have been tempted to try a hijacking like this one. If you're in a certain state of mind - depressed being an obvious one, as it tends to somewhat dull the senses and detach a degree of responsibility - then I can see it happening. Someone with a vendetta against the airline specifically or corporate culture in general? Possibly. Someone who did it simply because they wanted to see if it could be done? More likely, IMO.

Ah well. Just my thoughts.
 
What an interesting post Dan! Welcome to WS!
 
Has anyone ever thought he wanted to be seen as this clean cut man in a cheap suit because the last few years he has been a long haired hippy like person? If you want to hide your identity dress like you are not. I was a kid then, very young, and i had a clip on tie, but would not be caught dead with one as an adult. You see them for uniforms that force people to wear suits. I know people tended to dress up to fly back then, but seem his whole look was a disguise in a way. It's kind of like a rough looking person who shows up all clean cut for his trial...nobody recognizes him. So maybe all the people who might be missing him, never saw him like that. Add in it is just a sketch, well you can see why nobody reported him. I am thinking he was a vet, maybe from vietnam or even korea. Perhaps from the Northwest or maybe Canada. His plan was really bad though. We know he had no intention of going all the way to Mexico but his first demand was to fly to Mexico City. That would have put him on a more southeastward path. But he never thought of the mountains...so the captain told him we cannot fly at 10k feet over the mountains, we either need to go higher or go south towards portland. So if he jumped at the same time going Southeast he should have planned on dropping closer to Yakima, WA not Portland. So what was his next step>? I don't think he had one. I think he was quite desperate. Unless he was to contact an accomplice to pick him up, but that accomplice would probably be staging northwest of Yakima.
 
Did anyone see the special last night? I don't get the channel so I didn't see it. Part 2 airs tonight. I'm curious to know what people thought of it.

Found this review:


http://previously.tv/television/db-cooper-case-closed-and-the-tropes-of-cold-case-event-television/

I only caught the last 15 mins. I see part one is airing again right before part 2, so i am setting a reminder. I came in when they were discussing the found portion of the money. Claims the couple and little boy who found the money were in on it. They had the father and now the grown boy on the show. The show seems to suggest they are evasive. I assume we will hear more from them. I will let you know tomorrow.
 
I don't know if this has been posted yet, but History Channel is running a special on D.B. Copper on July 10: http://www.history.com/shows/d-b-cooper-case-closed

I saw it. It was pretty informative. The guys doing the investigating may well be onto something. The part about the hippie family finding the money on the beach was well known, but the part about there being a $200,000 offered by the FBI would have been all the motive required to conveniently "find" the money". The inference in the show was that D B Cooper and this family were going to try and double dip into the pot, that's why the 5 grand was found on the beach, to get the reward money being offered by the FBI.

As it turns out, the hippie family didn't get any of it, and their so-called friend was suspected of being Cooper by the FBI. This guy was angry and pissed off that he had been booted from the military for lying about his education level after he had gone through 7+ years of intensive military training.

There's still one thing I can't figure out though, and it wasn't addressed in the show. (yet) Why has none of the ransom money ever been found in circulation ?
 
I saw it. It was pretty informative. The guys doing the investigating may well be onto something. The part about the hippie family finding the money on the beach was well known, but the part about there being a $200,000 offered by the FBI would have been all the motive required to conveniently "find" the money". The inference in the show was that D B Cooper and this family were going to try and double dip into the pot, that's why the 5 grand was found on the beach, to get the reward money being offered by the FBI.

As it turns out, the hippie family didn't get any of it, and their so-called friend was suspected of being Cooper by the FBI. This guy was angry and pissed off that he had been booted from the military for lying about his education level after he had gone through 7+ years of intensive military training.

There's still one thing I can't figure out though, and it wasn't addressed in the show. (yet) Why has none of the ransom money ever been found in circulation ?

Would it have been hard to find back in the 70s if it was spent in another country?
 
The show was a total let down. If they had gone to the FBI and discussed the case in the first 30 minutes instead of the last, would there have even been a show? So they basically drag this "suspect's" face and name through the mud for 3.5 hrs only to let us know at the end it couldn't be him? Wow. Can i get my 4 hrs back?
 
The show did not "solve" the mystery and it sounds like the FBI has pretty well dropped the case. It would be nice if they would release all the information they have but I don't think that is going to happen.

A few thoughts on case:

I don't care what the FBI says, I think it is absolutely impossible for three bundles of cash to have found there way to Tena Beach the way they did without human intervention. I don't have access to all of the facts but' from what I can tell, somebody put them there. Unless somebody found DB's body laying in a field and decided to conceal all of the evidence and keep the cash, it is pretty good indication that he survived that jump. How and why the cash turned up where it did is a mystery within a mystery.

When DB jumped, it was dark and heavy overcast. He was literally flying blind. The parachute he chose was not very maneuverable but since it was dark, than may not have mattered; he was going to land wherever he came down. Based on his instructions to fly below 10,000 feet, there was a specific flight route an airliner would have followed under normal circumstances. Based on the speed of 190 mph DB instructed them to fly, he could judge his location along the flight route by his watch. He would, however, have no way of knowing if his instructions were being followed and the expected flight route followed. The area along the route that he would have been over at the time he jumped was mostly flat fields or pasture near plenty of roads in the country between the city of Vancouver WA and the Lewis River. He could have become familiar with the lay of the land before he made his jump, and left a vehicle somewhere he could work his way too in the night. All indications are that this is where he went down, but, very easily, something could have gone wrong and he would have landed in country where he would have been killed or injured on impact and died of exposure before he could find his way out. This was was a real risky operation. He was either brave, crazy or desperate.

The FBI claims the money has never found its way into circulation but I am inclined to doubt that. I can see where there would be strategic advantages in making this claim.

DB spent several hours in the plane. He had two drinks and placed his hands on many surfaces. There is no indication he wore gloves. There is an excellent chance that one or more print was recovered. Even if they are uncertain which prints are his, all prints could have been compared to any suspect's. Apparently there was no match. He left 7 cigarette butts that would probably have had recoverable DNA but they were not retained.
 
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