WA WA - D.B. Cooper Hijacking Mystery, 24 Nov 1971 #4

[Melquiades]

I wouldn’t like his chances if he had never jumped before, either. You would have to be very desperate to make that be your first jump. It’s possible, but I would think it much more likely he had experience.

Yeah, the fact that it was a risky/dangerous/stupid by normal logic jump seems to be interpreted that he was a novice and nobody who had experience would ever have jumped in those conditions.

I have the exact opposite interpretation - no novice would ever have jumped in those conditions, and this was the jump of someone who had extreme confidence in his ability and had a history of risky jumps. And knew he needed the cover of darkness to escape, and this was how it had to be done.

Cooper knew exactly what kind of parachute he wanted for the jump and knew exactly how to execute the jump. This wasn't an amateur.

 

[OddOneOut]

Yeah, the fact that it was a risky/dangerous/stupid by normal logic jump seems to be interpreted that he was a novice and nobody who had experience would ever have jumped in those conditions.

I have the exact opposite interpretation - no novice would ever have jumped in those conditions, and this was the jump of someone who had extreme confidence in his ability and had a history of risky jumps. And knew he needed the cover of darkness to escape, and this was how it had to be done.

Cooper knew exactly what kind of parachute he wanted for the jump and knew exactly how to execute the jump. This wasn't an amateur.

Or, someone who was desperate to get the money. Either way it seems odd that none of the money was ever spent. That is what most leads me to believe Cooper died during the jump or soon after.

 

[Melquiades]

Or, someone who was desperate to get the money. Either way it seems odd that none of the money was ever spent. That is what most leads me to believe Cooper died during the jump or soon after.

I just can't see it being someone inexperienced. The sort of person who would do this is someone who had done night military jumps into enemy territory and knew what was involved and had confidence they could extricate themselves. No amateur with little/no experience would even consider something like this - would be absolutely freaking terrifying.

Plus there's a substantial evidence he had a background to this effect - conversational in aviation terms, knew the driving time from Seattle to McChord AFB, knew exactly what he wanted the pilots and plane to do (to the extent of knowing the plane's capability arguably better than the pilots did), knew the type of parachute he wanted and rejected initial options, was said by the stewardess to look very comfortable throwing on the parachute.

The money not reappearing is definitely a point toward the notion he died on the jump. But then his bag also could have ripped open and the money lost before he hit the ground. And if he died on the jump itself surely his parachute would have been found in the extensive search unless he hit water.

 

[JustinW]

I just can't see it being someone inexperienced. The sort of person who would do this is someone who had done night military jumps into enemy territory and knew what was involved and had confidence they could extricate themselves. No amateur with little/no experience would even consider something like this - would be absolutely freaking terrifying.

Plus there's a substantial evidence he had a background to this effect - conversational in aviation terms, knew the driving time from Seattle to McChord AFB, knew exactly what he wanted the pilots and plane to do (to the extent of knowing the plane's capability arguably better than the pilots did), knew the type of parachute he wanted and rejected initial options, was said by the stewardess to look very comfortable throwing on the parachute.

The money not reappearing is definitely a point toward the notion he died on the jump. But then his bag also could have ripped open and the money lost before he hit the ground. And if he died on the jump itself surely his parachute would have been found in the extensive search unless he hit water.

Even if Cooper landed in water, the parachute would have been found.

 

[OddOneOut]

I just can't see it being someone inexperienced. The sort of person who would do this is someone who had done night military jumps into enemy territory and knew what was involved and had confidence they could extricate themselves. No amateur with little/no experience would even consider something like this - would be absolutely freaking terrifying.

Plus there's a substantial evidence he had a background to this effect - conversational in aviation terms, knew the driving time from Seattle to McChord AFB, knew exactly what he wanted the pilots and plane to do (to the extent of knowing the plane's capability arguably better than the pilots did), knew the type of parachute he wanted and rejected initial options, was said by the stewardess to look very comfortable throwing on the parachute.

The money not reappearing is definitely a point toward the notion he died on the jump. But then his bag also could have ripped open and the money lost before he hit the ground. And if he died on the jump itself surely his parachute would have been found in the extensive search unless he hit water.

The rest of the money and the bag are probably with his body somewhere in the wilderness.

 

[Laughing]

The rest of the money and the bag are probably with his body somewhere in the wilderness.

Well, the plastic, polyester, nylon, and metal parts, anyway.

 

[JustinW]

If he died in the woods, I’m still surprised his body or evidence has never been recovered. They did a legitimate search. Plus, it’s been 50 years for someone to find something. The area is rural, but it is not 1000s of uninhabited acres of Alaskan wilderness. There have been plenty of instances where an intense search somehow missed remains when they were very close by. Of course, we know they were close because they were eventually found.
The thing is, even the jump location is far from a sure thing. The flight crew felt a pressure “bump” that they felt was Cooper leaving the aircraft. That was above the Ariel, Woodland Washington area. There really is no actual proof he jumped there, though. It just seems the most likely.

 

[OddOneOut]

Well, the plastic, polyester, nylon, and metal parts, anyway.

Time would have had an effect on all of these. The bag is probably in shreds of rotted fabric. I doubt any of it is just sitting where it can be seen.

 

[OddOneOut]

Does anyone know how large the area is that they think he landed in? Has it been searched with cadaver dogs?

 

[kemo]

I am familiar with the area that he almost certainly landed in (north of Vancoveer Wa, east of I-5). The terrain is mostly flat farmland or pasture. There are patches of forest and property lines are often separated by tree lines. There are farmhouses and other outbuildings scattered throughout the area serviced by a network of roads. If the parachute opened, I would think it would have been found within 24 hours as it could be seen easily in daylight as it would contrast with the green terrain. If the parachute did not open, a dead body might not be found right away but it would be found soon enough. The area is hardly inaccessible wilderness. There is lots of human activity going on throughout the area. A body might decompose and be scattered by animals but the parachute would turn up. The only scenario I can come up with consistent with DB dying on impact that night is if someone found the body and the money and decided to dispose of the body and keep the money themselves.

I have never skydived so I have no idea how reasonable such a dive may have been. Others, who claimed to be experienced skydivers, seem to think that anyone who was reasonably experienced could have pulled it off. Wandering around wet with temperatures in the thirties would certainly risk death from exposure unless he could get to shelter reasonably quickly. Getting to a pay phone and calling an accomplice would be the most likely means of getting out alive.

 

[OddOneOut]

I am familiar with the area that he almost certainly landed in (north of Vancoveer Wa, east of I-5). The terrain is mostly flat farmland or pasture. There are patches of forest and property lines are often separated by tree lines. There are farmhouses and other outbuildings scattered throughout the area serviced by a network of roads. If the parachute opened, I would think it would have been found within 24 hours as it could be seen easily in daylight as it would contrast with the green terrain. If the parachute did not open, a dead body might not be found right away but it would be found soon enough. The area is hardly inaccessible wilderness. There is lots of human activity going on throughout the area. A body might decompose and be scattered by animals but the parachute would turn up. The only scenario I can come up with consistent with DB dying on impact that night is if someone found the body and the money and decided to dispose of the body and keep the money themselves.

I have never skydived so I have no idea how reasonable such a dive may have been. Others, who claimed to be experienced skydivers, seem to think that anyone who was reasonably experienced could have pulled it off. Wandering around wet with temperatures in the thirties would certainly risk death from exposure unless he could get to shelter reasonably quickly. Getting to a pay phone and calling an accomplice would be the most likely means of getting out alive.

The problem is they don't even know when or where he jumped from the plane. Therefore, the area in which he could have landed is much larger with unknown boundaries.

 

[Ozoner]

I am familiar with the area that he almost certainly landed in (north of Vancouver WA, east of I-5).

I agree with you that he almost certainly landed east of I-5, but I'm not sure why you think that he had to be north of Vancouver. I think that he was north of I-84 when he jumped, but I would not presume to narrow it down any more than that. He could have drifted south of I-84 but probably didn't.

The placard that was found near Castle Rock could have fallen out of the plane any time after the aft stairs were lowered, possibly several minutes before Cooper jumped.

The money found at Tena Bar could have fallen any time between when Cooper jumped and when he landed. It's location has led to the supposition that Cooper may have landed somewhere close to the Washougal River catchment—or between the Washougal River catchment and Tena Bar, anyway—but that isn't a certainty. (I don't put too much stock in the analysis of how long the money was buried in the sand; I think that there were too many variables and too many assumptions in that analysis.)

Wandering around wet with temperatures in the thirties would certainly risk death from exposure unless he could get to shelter reasonably quickly.

That's a good point. He could have made a safe landing but still gotten lost in the wilderness and died after burying his parachute.

It's also entire possible that he failed to open his parachute—for all we know he could have hit his head jumping out of the plane and knocked himself out—and landed in the Columbia River. The weight of the parachute and his bundle of money might have prevented his body from ever rising.

Even if he opened his parachute, if he had the bad luck of landing in the Columbia, I'm not certain that he or his parachute would have been found. Both might have settled to the bottom before daylight.

 

[Laughing]

Not familiar with the depth, channels, speed of the Columbia River -- if he landed in the river, might he have been carried out to sea?

 

[Ozoner]

Not familiar with the depth, channels, speed of the Columbia River -- if he landed in the river, might he have been carried out to sea?

If his body floated to the surface, yes. I don't know whether he would have floated with the parachute and money still attached.

Most drowning victims rise to the surface within a few days to a few weeks, but some never do, even when they don't have anything weighing them down. A couple of the most significant variables are the person's percentage of body fat and the temperature of the water. Thinner people are less likely to float, and cold water can slow down decay enough that a body never floats.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

The fact that some of the money was found on the bank of the Columbia River in 1980 (app. $5,800, in a deteriorated condition) lends credence to the possibility that Cooper died as a result of jumping out of the plane.

Even if he had been an experienced jumper/parachutist that doesn't mean much, given that he still couldn't control the weather/wind patterns/where he landed.

The fact that no body/parachute/etc. was ever found doesn't mean these aren't still out in the wilderness somewhere - in extremely deteriorated condition(s), of course. Or, as I and others have theorized- he could have landed in a body of water & drowned, and the parachute/rest of the money/bag are still with the body - wherever that is.

 

[gggumdrops]

Hi there, and pardon the interruption. If you don’t mind I have a theory I’d like to share and hopefully if your interested you might continue to investigate?

Did you know that in 1972 William Bradford Bishop Jr. (wanted by the FBI for murdering his family) began asking Doctors for pain medication for an undiagnosed back condition? He then moved to Botswana where he continued to ask for pain medication only now he’s failing to mention his previous requests in the US.

Why is that interesting?

Swarthy complexion
35 years of age (in Nov of 1971)
6’1”
180lbs
Amateur pilot
(Seemingly) experienced with commercial flight
Had previously served with the US Army
French speaking
Foreign diplomat had been stationed in Europe just prior to 1971
Very fit
Avid Outdoorsman

In 1971 he stopped writing in his diary where he wrote of psychosis, of “standing on the threshold” and of “sawing to the heights and plummeted each time to the depths”.

Not only was he likely in a position of purchasing and reading the French language Dan Cooper comics, he also had children the appropriate age and gender to be buying them for.

In 1971 he stopped attending UCLA and moved his family back to Washington,D.C. placing him on the east coast. At first this seems to work against him having been D.B..Cooper, however if you consider that he may have wanted to hide his escapades from his family then it might have been essential.



Wikipedia- “Close-set piercing brown eyes with swarthy skin”

He ticks EVERY box and then asks for pain medication following the hijacking!

I don’t need confirmation from Tina Mucklow to confirm my suspicions, however I think it’d be crazy if she weren’t asked.

I’m not an expert on either case I’ve just watched a couple of YouTube videos and read a couple of articles. It’s all second hand information and I’ve probably made mistakes, however I’m capable of putting 2 and 2 together and am without doubt that if you investigate further you won’t be disappointed.

Thanks for reading.

 

[JustinW]

Hi there, and pardon the interruption. If you don’t mind I have a theory I’d like to share and hopefully if your interested you might continue to investigate?

Did you know that in 1972 William Bradford Bishop Jr. (wanted by the FBI for murdering his family) began asking Doctors for pain medication for an undiagnosed back condition? He then moved to Botswana where he continued to ask for pain medication only now he’s failing to mention his previous requests in the US.

Why is that interesting?

Swarthy complexion
35 years of age (in Nov of 1971)
6’1”
180lbs
Amateur pilot
(Seemingly) experienced with commercial flight
Had previously served with the US Army
French speaking
Foreign diplomat had been stationed in Europe just prior to 1971
Very fit
Avid Outdoorsman

In 1971 he stopped writing in his diary where he wrote of psychosis, of “standing on the threshold” and of “sawing to the heights and plummeted each time to the depths”.

Not only was he likely in a position of purchasing and reading the French language Dan Cooper comics, he also had children the appropriate age and gender to be buying them for.

In 1971 he stopped attending UCLA and moved his family back to Washington,D.C. placing him on the east coast. At first this seems to work against him having been D.B..Cooper, however if you consider that he may have wanted to hide his escapades from his family then it might have been essential.

View attachment 363206View attachment 363207View attachment 363210
View attachment 363211View attachment 363208
Wikipedia- “Close-set piercing brown eyes with swarthy skin”

He ticks EVERY box and then asks for pain medication following the hijacking!

I don’t need confirmation from Tina Mucklow to confirm my suspicions, however I think it’d be crazy if she weren’t asked.

I’m not an expert on either case I’ve just watched a couple of YouTube videos and read a couple of articles. It’s all second hand information and I’ve probably made mistakes, however I’m capable of putting 2 and 2 together and am without doubt that if you investigate further you won’t be disappointed.

Thanks for reading.

I don’t think I’ve heard of that suspect. I’ll have to look into him more. It doesn’t seem like anything you’ve stated about him would exclude him as a suspect, and it sounds like he COULD have done it. There’s a lot of COULDS out there. Is there any evidence even loosely placing him in the area at the time, coming into money, purchasing a cheap clip on tie, even? Was he looked into by the FBI?
I’m not being critical at all. I’m just curious. Maybe I’m just skeptical, but I haven’t seen any suspects that have had anything I’d consider evidence pointing to them. At least not that’s been released.
I hope people keep coming up with ideas.

 

[JustinW]

I seem to recall another demolition annihilator being considered a potential “suspect”, by some. It seemed like that one took his family’s lives before the hijacking’s took place. I know this isn’t concrete, but it seems like DB Cooper did not show any real violent tendencies. Would someone who could murder their own family be calm, respectful and non violent(aside from threats of a bomb, of course). I wonder how many family annihilators show no real signs before or after. Maybe they don’t.

 

[Ozoner]

Hi there, and pardon the interruption. If you don’t mind I have a theory I’d like to share and hopefully if your interested you might continue to investigate?

Did you know that in 1972 William Bradford Bishop Jr. (wanted by the FBI for murdering his family) began asking Doctors for pain medication for an undiagnosed back condition? He then moved to Botswana where he continued to ask for pain medication only now he’s failing to mention his previous requests in the US.

Why is that interesting?

Swarthy complexion
35 years of age (in Nov of 1971)
6’1”
180lbs
Amateur pilot
(Seemingly) experienced with commercial flight
Had previously served with the US Army
French speaking
Foreign diplomat had been stationed in Europe just prior to 1971
Very fit
Avid Outdoorsman

In 1971 he stopped writing in his diary where he wrote of psychosis, of “standing on the threshold” and of “sawing to the heights and plummeted each time to the depths”.

Not only was he likely in a position of purchasing and reading the French language Dan Cooper comics, he also had children the appropriate age and gender to be buying them for.

In 1971 he stopped attending UCLA and moved his family back to Washington,D.C. placing him on the east coast. At first this seems to work against him having been D.B..Cooper, however if you consider that he may have wanted to hide his escapades from his family then it might have been essential.

View attachment 363206View attachment 363207View attachment 363210
View attachment 363211View attachment 363208
Wikipedia- “Close-set piercing brown eyes with swarthy skin”

He ticks EVERY box and then asks for pain medication following the hijacking!

I don’t need confirmation from Tina Mucklow to confirm my suspicions, however I think it’d be crazy if she weren’t asked.

I’m not an expert on either case I’ve just watched a couple of YouTube videos and read a couple of articles. It’s all second hand information and I’ve probably made mistakes, however I’m capable of putting 2 and 2 together and am without doubt that if you investigate further you won’t be disappointed.

Thanks for reading.

Bishop's eyes don't appear to be close set; they appear average.

 

[Romulus]

Somehow I just don’t see any relatives remembering events, or lack of, 50 years later. Cooper will die, or already has and someone will come across a box of money and maybe newspaper clippings from that time. Then it will all unfold. It’s hard for me to imagine though that he’s kept quiet about it this whole time and had to at some point told people he was Cooper.

There is also another possibility: they find the box with the money, the newspapers, the evidence, but they have already made them disappear and goodbye identification of DB Cooper.