GUILTY WA - Dayvid Pakko, 6, autistic, Lynnwood, 17 Oct 2017 *Arrest*

[JerseyGirl]

During a first appearance for Andrew Henckel, 19, in Everett District Court on Wednesday, defense lawyer Sarah Forde argued against a prosecution request that bail be set at $1 million. She said that Henckel suffers from “autism spectrum disorder” and shouldn’t be held based solely on statements he made in custody without an attorney present after the body of Dayvid Pakko was found early Tuesday morning in Lynnwood. Forde said individuals with the disorder are often overly eager to please, deferential to authority figures and “prone to respond compliantly to requests and demands.” These traits are compounded with her client, she said, who grew up in a military family and was expected to follow orders.

Deputy Snohomish County Prosecutor Matt Baldock disputed that the suspect’s statement was coerced, saying police found evidence that corroborated the story, including details about how Dayvid was dressed and where and how his body was found. And while acknowledging reports that Henckel has a form of autism, prosecutors noted he “does not report a formal diagnosis and is not taking medication.”

According to the Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office, Henckel graduated high school with As and Bs, attended a year of college and was working for U-Haul before he came to stay with his sister near Lynnwood.

District Court Judge Tam Bui granted the prosecutor’s request and set bail at $1 million, but agreed to revisit the issue later. The prosecutor’s office has 72 hours to file criminal charges.

http://www.chronline.com/crime/bail...cle_b500eb28-b4ed-11e7-bf67-430b6ab161da.html

According to the court document, when the boyfriend returned to the apartment Henckel told him he had fallen asleep on the couch and didn’t know where Dayvid had gone. He searched the neighborhood with the boyfriend for more than a half-hour before they called police.

As one of the last people to see Dayvid, detectives questioned him. The documents indicate that Henckel came under particular scrutiny based on his actions after the boy’s body was found in the dumpster. Rather than showing interest in the sudden activity, they said, Henckel walked about.

 

[loveisthemovement]

I want to know if the boyfriend found anything amiss when he returned home? He didn't mention to anyone anything like "the bathroom was a mess, water was all over the place, a blanket was missing" etc.

 

[Vail]

Just jumping in with some of you to also state that having aspergers does not mean a person is mentally deficient or unintellgent or dumb or whatever euphemism you want to use. I live with one who is high functioning and extremely cunning and smart with logical topics and things he gets obsessed with, who is undistinguishable from a "normal" person if you aren't around him during moments of frustration. Someone with Aspergers is capable of murder as much as anyone else that develops homcidal intent, and in fact if they became interested in death or specifically agitated by someone (like a 6 year old with special needs) I would argue they are even more capable because they already have impaired empathy in many cases. AH had clearly pursued the topic if he was able to tell detectives that lungs fill with water when a person drowns, resulting in death. I don't know if the right question is whether he knows that drowning someone will kill them, it is if he understands what death means to others and what the consequences are for murder, because he may have just seen it as a solution to a problem, no different from swatting a fly (sorry for the comparison but I hope you get my point).

 

[katydid23]

I know we are not allowed to sleuth 'family' ---but this seems different, in that the victim and the suspect are close family members.

Do we have a little more leeway, given the circumstances?

 

[MissUnderstood]

PPL with Aspergers get married have families of their own.... there is really no reason not to let him watch the young boy.
they are smart loving pple just socially withdrawn.... Many live at home all their lives groups of
friends that like the same things....
Something more seems to be going on here either he did not do this (someone else did)
Or there is some other problem this guy has.

JMO

That's my thoughts too. Being on the spectrum did not give anyone pause to give him the responsibility of baby sitting so it can't be turned into being on the spectrum is some kind of reason why he did this. Evil has no spectrum. Moo


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[jjs]

Just jumping in with some of you to also state that having aspergers does not mean a person is mentally deficient or unintellgent or dumb or whatever euphemism you want to use. I live with one who is high functioning and extremely cunning and smart with logical topics and things he gets obsessed with, who is undistinguishable from a "normal" person if you aren't around him during moments of frustration. Someone with Aspergers is capable of murder as much as anyone else that develops homcidal intent, and in fact if they became interested in death or specifically agitated by someone (like a 6 year old with special needs) I would argue they are even more capable because they already have impaired empathy in many cases. AH had clearly pursued the topic if he was able to tell detectives that lungs fill with water when a person drowns, resulting in death. I don't know if the right question is whether he knows that drowning someone will kill them, it is if he understands what death means to others and what the consequences are for murder, because he may have just seen it as a solution to a problem, no different from swatting a fly (sorry for the comparison but I hope you get my point).

BBM. This is what I was trying to say in my post, but Vail said it better than I did. Not only does my daughter lack common sense, but she still has full blown tantrums-- like, on the floor, kicking and screaming. It doesn't happen very often now that she's on the correct medication, but it does happen. When she's playing with her sister, if things don't go exactly her way, she starts screaming and stomps back into her room, with the catchphrase "I'm never playing with you again." She's gotten up in my face a couple of times when I've told her to do something she doesn't want to. Although she has a ton of friends, there are often interpersonal conflicts because someone doesn't do what she wants, or there's an imagined slight. It goes beyond "normal teenage girl stuff". She constantly talks about moving out, but my partner and I are fully prepared for her to live with us forever because neither of us see her being able to live on her own, no matter how "functional" she appears to others. I could easily see her resorting to violence if left unchecked when something didn't go her way, which-- in addition to her lack of common sense-- is another reason I don't let her babysit.

I think a big part of this case will be how affected and in what ways the defendant is. Autism takes many forms, and it is a spectrum, with many different variances. It can create gentle giants and it can create sociopaths.

 

[MIKAYOYO]

So incredibly heartbreaking. This family has suffered a huge loss. RIP Dayvid! Such a cute little face.

 

[drjmcope06]

I’ve had autistic spectrum clients go to college. It is such a varying diagnosis, hence spectrum. I still feel they will try to use this as an insanity defense. Proving he knew right from wrong at the time of the crime is hard after the fact. But, either way, he won’t get off. He will either stay in a mental hospital or jail. I have to believe Dayvid will get justice. If I don’t think this way, I get sick to my stomach.


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[jiminy]

If AH is overly eager to please and "prone to respond compliantly to requests and demands", I suppose it's possible he thought he was doing what someone wanted. Literal interpretation of an off-the-cuff comment?

 

[drjmcope06]

If AH is overly eager to please and "prone to respond compliantly to requests and demands", I suppose it's possible he thought he was doing what someone wanted. Literal interpretation of an off-the-cuff comment?

The same would go for Dayvid. It might have been presented as a game or something. He had to have tricked him or something. JMO


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[Prebeccal]

I live nearby and went out and looked around my home the night they were searching for him. I hope that any confession made is recorded in full. I hope that forensic evidence supports any confession made. I also hope that whatever suspicious behavior observed at the dumpster, when they found the body, is not just someone mis-understanding autism spectrum or whatever his situation is. I had a Lynnwood police man tell me that I should feel safe living here because they are "proactive about arresting". I think about that all the time and somehow don't feel safer. I'm not sure what he meant.

 

[tlcya]

I know we are not allowed to sleuth 'family' ---but this seems different, in that the victim and the suspect are close family members.

Do we have a little more leeway, given the circumstances?

No, no additional leeway. The TOS remain the same. Thank you for checking first.

 

[booghawk]

Just to add to this. A family member of mine has Aspergers, and I also have a son who is non-verbal autistic. The thing about autism, including Aspergers, is that no two are alike. My family member would in NO situation be entrusted to watch a child alone. They themselves aren't even generally left alone. He has little to no empathy and gets angry when others cry or are upset. He has little self care skills & does not like to be bothered. He's obsessive and is easily influenced. For example, if he came across a website about drowning a person, he could very well become so intrigued by it that he would be capable of trying it himself. Not saying he would, but it would definitely be a possibility. His internet and tv use is heavily limited and monitored.

That being said, we don't know what his Aspergers is like, but if it was more like my family members, and the boyfriend knew, that's a different story all together.

From the sounds of it though, he was a little more high functioning than my family member. But the way he so easily admitted it and told them about his plan and his intention to kill him makes me wonder just where on the spectrum he is. But they are also generally VERY honest so it may just be that. I'd be interested to know if he has ever had children in his care alone before. Also curious about whether he was influenced by anyone. Although, someone with Aspergers would have a REALLY hard time keeping that from anyone. Like I said, they are extremely honest and blunt in most cases and if a question is asked, whether it will get him or someone else in trouble, they'll more than likely give an honest answer.

As the mother of an autistic child, regardless of who took his life, my heart absolutely shatters hearing about this. My son is close in age and actually somewhat resembles this sweet boy. The fear he must've felt and not understanding what he did wrong or what was happening or why just makes a knot in my stomach. My son is the most loving, hilarious, sensitive and compassionate boy, I can't even begin to imagine this happening to him.

If he is like my family member, leaving him, an autistic, lower functioning man, with an autistic child is a massive judgement error. Of course many, many autistic people are parents themselves and or wonderful caretakers, but if he is like my FM, this was a horrible, horrible decision. He cannot and should not be in the general public after this.

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[lorelei2017]

Just to add to this. A family member of mine has Aspergers, and I also have a son who is non-verbal autistic. The thing about autism, including Aspergers, is that no two are alike. My family member would in NO situation be entrusted to watch a child alone. They themselves aren't even generally left alone. He has little to no empathy and gets angry when others cry or are upset. He has little self care skills & does not like to be bothered. He's obsessive and is easily influenced. For example, if he came across a website about drowning a person, he could very well become so intrigued by it that he would be capable of trying it himself. Not saying he would, but it would definitely be a possibility. His internet and tv use is heavily limited and monitored.

That being said, we don't know what his Aspergers is like, but if it was more like my family members, and the boyfriend knew, that's a different story all together.

From the sounds of it though, he was a little more high functioning than my family member. But the way he so easily admitted it and told them about his plan and his intention to kill him makes me wonder just where on the spectrum he is. But they are also generally VERY honest so it may just be that. I'd be interested to know if he has ever had children in his care alone before. Also curious about whether he was influenced by anyone. Although, someone with Aspergers would have a REALLY hard time keeping that from anyone. Like I said, they are extremely honest and blunt in most cases and if a question is asked, whether it will get him or someone else in trouble, they'll more than likely give an honest answer.

As the mother of an autistic child, regardless of who took his life, my heart absolutely shatters hearing about this. My son is close in age and actually somewhat resembles this sweet boy. The fear he must've felt and not understanding what he did wrong or what was happening or why just makes a knot in my stomach. My son is the most loving, hilarious, sensitive and compassionate boy, I can't even begin to imagine this happening to him.

If he is like my family member, leaving him, an autistic, lower functioning man, with an autistic child is a massive judgement error. Of course many, many autistic people are parents themselves and or wonderful caretakers, but if he is like my FM, this was a horrible, horrible decision. He cannot and should not be in the general public after this.

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Very insightful post. As the parent of a child with an intellectual disability, completely agree.

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[bevyofbagels]

My brother and I are both on the spectrum, and aside from a few similarities we are very different people. We deal with things in different ways. I had a thirst for independence pretty early on, but I didn't develop as quickly as my peers so I had to kind of box my way up to where I am now. I'm still pretty socially impaired but I function well enough. I rent my own apartment (after a few years in a supported living environment), have my part-time job and my cat. I have to keep my 'world' small and really mind how much I take on, but most of the time I feel good and operate well.

My brother is in his early 20's but still lives with my parents. Which is fine, plenty of millenials do, but a lot of aspects of adult life that I was learning at his age are now done by my parents, and at this rate I don't know when he will learn how to manage his finances (rent, bills, taxes) or keep a space reasonably clean, for example. I worry that at some point my parents will age beyond the ability to support him and that it will leave him helpless, like many adults on the spectrum.

I also worry about some parts of his personality. For example, he showed zero emotion when my grandma died this year. He even said he didn't feel anything to my mom, for which I kind of wanted to punch him. I felt like he could have at least modulated his behavior for her sake. I felt really uncomfortable when I sent her flowers after the funeral service and she said some really sweet things about me, but later made some contrasting remarks about my brother. He also has no sense of pain, uses terms like 'hate' pretty loosely and gets annoyed by other people and animals easily and shows it. He doesn't seem to have any attachment to people, or much of a moral code or sense of shame. I can still feel horrible about 'stupid' things I said and did 10 or even 20 years ago!

Sometimes I wonder if he would hurt people if the right buttons were pushed, but you never know. Some cold, detached people never do because they're not inclined, and some of the most 'golden' people just do the unthinkable one day. It's kind of a c***shoot.

 

[lorelei2017]

My brother and I are both on the spectrum, and aside from a few similarities we are very different people. We deal with things in different ways. I had a thirst for independence pretty early on, but I didn't develop as quickly as my peers so I had to kind of box my way up to where I am now. I'm still pretty socially impaired but I function well enough. I rent my own apartment (after a few years in a supported living environment), have my part-time job and my cat. I have to keep my 'world' small and really mind how much I take on, but most of the time I feel good and operate well.

My brother is in his early 20's but still lives with my parents. Which is fine, plenty of millenials do, but a lot of aspects of adult life that I was learning at his age are now done by my parents, and at this rate I don't know when he will learn how to manage his finances (rent, bills, taxes) or keep a space reasonably clean, for example. I worry that at some point my parents will age beyond the ability to support him and that it will leave him helpless, like many adults on the spectrum.

I also worry about some parts of his personality. For example, he showed zero emotion when my grandma died this year. He even said he didn't feel anything to my mom, for which I kind of wanted to punch him. I felt like he could have at least modulated his behavior for her sake. I felt really uncomfortable when I sent her flowers after the funeral service and she said some really sweet things about me, but later made some contrasting remarks about my brother. He also has no sense of pain, uses terms like 'hate' pretty loosely and gets annoyed by other people and animals easily and shows it. He doesn't seem to have any attachment to people, or much of a moral code or sense of shame. I can still feel horrible about 'stupid' things I said and did 10 or even 20 years ago!

Sometimes I wonder if he would hurt people if the right buttons were pushed, but you never know. Some cold, detached people never do because they're not inclined, and some of the most 'golden' people just do the unthinkable one day. It's kind of a c***shoot.

Very wise words bevy. That's what I have learned from raising my daughter. People are who they are despite their "label" or the lack of one. I tell my daughter, there is no such thing as normal. There is how the majority of people are educated and function in society. We all have our struggles, and our strengths and weaknesses. It is when someone can't function the way the majority does that modifications need to be put in place, whatever that persons "disability" is. Thank you for sharing your story, it gives me hope for my daughter and renews my dedication to continuing to push for her independence , as much as can be achieved

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[MsMarple]

Investigators also collected clothes they found in the dryer. Henckel allegedly told police he put his jeans, T-shirt and socks in the dryer after holding Dayvid Pakko down in a bathtub full of water. Henckel, 19, said he planned to drown the boy as soon as he was left alone with him.

He also allegedly said he “wasn’t really thinking. Just kind of did it,” according to a search warrant filed in Snohomish County Superior Court.
...
They [detectives] were told Dayvid had been wearing green camouflage dinosaur pajamas but they found the bottoms, turned inside out, on top of the washing machine.
...
He allegedly told detectives he knew he was going to drown the boy as soon as his sister’s boyfriend left the apartment. The Snohomish County medical examiner confirmed this week that Dayvid drowned.

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/suspect-reportedly-tells-detectives-he-just-kind-of-did-it/

According to the search warrant Dayvid's mom's boyfriend left to go to a pawn shop and then to pay off a drug debt. When he returned Dayvid was gone and AH was on the couch, pretending to nap.

The boyfriend agreed to take a polygraph test, gave LE a sample of his DNA and let them search his phone. He also said he and AH searched for about an hour before calling Dayvid's mom but according to his phone it was 2 hours. AH's dad says AH would never hurt someone.

Would pretending to be asleep and lying about what happened be typical behavior of someone on the autistic spectrum? I'm not trying to do a "gotcha," it's a sincere question as I often hear that autistic people are up front and honest but I don't hear much about conniving behavior or trying to cover their tracks when they do something wrong.

I guess I'm trying to sort out what could be attributed to AH's autism and what could be attributed to bad behavior (for lack of a better word). LE and the DA are treating Dayvid's murder the same as they would any murder. I expect the charges will go forward and any mitigation would be presented during trial.

 

[Vail]

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/suspect-reportedly-tells-detectives-he-just-kind-of-did-it/

According to the search warrant Dayvid's mom's boyfriend left to go to a pawn shop and then to pay off a drug debt. When he returned Dayvid was gone and AH was on the couch, pretending to nap.

...

Would pretending to be asleep and lying about what happened be typical behavior of someone on the autistic spectrum?

To preface, there is no evidence so far that Henckel is even autistic.

Investigators were told that Henckel might be autistic.

In the case of lying, autistic individuals would have to realize that they themselves are aware of two different perspectives of an event - the true perspective (“I murdered a child”) and the false perspective (“Someone else did it while I was sleeping”) which is not unlike the cognition required to know that holding someone's head under water will kill them. This type of cognition would not be likely for those who do not have theory of mind like most autistic individuals, because they believe that others always know what they are thinking. It is more common in Aspergers or other higher functioning autism-like dispositions where the child only has some impaired reasoning (like not considering or caring about consequences). If anything it helps prove that he knows right from wrong and understands that he needs to lie. Indeed, it sounds like he made a conscious pre-meditated decision.

In my opinion, Henckel is less autistic (or not at all) than his defense or the media is trying to make it out and it is only trying to confuse the issue and gain sympathy. The fact is, no matter how normal or healthy a person seems, it can be argued that murder is an act committed by individuals with mental impairments, period.

If the parents were paying off a drug debt, imagine what that can indicate about the lifestyle, quality of life or potential toxicity he was encumbered by as well. I'd like to know if there is any evidence or admission that he was also a drug user.

 

[Amonet]

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/suspect-reportedly-tells-detectives-he-just-kind-of-did-it/

According to the search warrant Dayvid's mom's boyfriend left to go to a pawn shop and then to pay off a drug debt. When he returned Dayvid was gone and AH was on the couch, pretending to nap.

The boyfriend agreed to take a polygraph test, gave LE a sample of his DNA and let them search his phone. He also said he and AH searched for about an hour before calling Dayvid's mom but according to his phone it was 2 hours. AH's dad says AH would never hurt someone.

Would pretending to be asleep and lying about what happened be typical behavior of someone on the autistic spectrum? I'm not trying to do a "gotcha," it's a sincere question as I often hear that autistic people are up front and honest but I don't hear much about conniving behavior or trying to cover their tracks when they do something wrong.

I guess I'm trying to sort out what could be attributed to AH's autism and what could be attributed to bad behavior (for lack of a better word). LE and the DA are treating Dayvid's murder the same as they would any murder. I expect the charges will go forward and any mitigation would be presented during trial.

I don't know if being on the autistm spectrum makes things very much different in these ways than not being on it. *Pretending* to be asleep suggests wanting to hide something that was really happening, but it doesn't suggest what is being hidden, it could be something relatively mild that no one else would think needed to be hidden, or it could be something far more serious that anyone would want to cover up.

I presume there's no evidence of anyone outside the family coming into the apartment, but say AH was petrified by someone coming in and telling him "you didn't see anything, don't tell anyone or you and your family will be hurt" then I think he'd be as likely to pretend to be asleep and keep the secret as well as he could as any other person, maybe more desperate to keep the secret as he might take the threat a lot more literally if he is on the spectrum.

 

[MsMarple]

AH was officially charged with first-degree murder today.

When he was first asked what happened to his nephew Oct. 16, Andrew Henckel reportedly was mystified.

Dayvid Pakko, 6, had simply disappeared from his Lynnwood apartment, he said.

“I don’t have the slightest clue where he’d go or what had happened,” Henckel is quoted as telling detectives as a frantic search began for the missing boy. “… I’m just assuming he got lost or something.”
...
The prosecutor excerpted the part of Henckel’s alleged statement when detectives asked him to explain his behavior. Henckel claimed he wasn’t thinking about the result of holding the boy underwater.

Detective: “Okay. But what did you know would happen?”

Henckel: “That he would drown.”

Detective: “That he would drown?”

Henckel: “Yeah.”

Detective: “Is that what you were trying to accomplish? …”

Henckel: “Yeah.”
...
Henckel allegedly spoke with detectives in a recorded interview after being advised of his legal rights. He reportedly described his attempt to cover up the death, including taking the boy’s body out to the trash bin and using towels to dry the bathroom floor.

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/man-charged-with-first-degree-murder-in-nephews-death/

Court papers say that Henckel first told investigators that he had fallen asleep watching television and that when he awoke, the little boy was gone.

Eventually 911 was called, and a search was launched. The little boy's body was found about 2 a.m Oct. 17.

Andrew Henckel was about 75 feet away from the dumpster and watching detectives, court papers say.
Then he walked away.

http://komonews.com/news/local/wasn...-charged-with-drowing-6-year-old-lynnwood-boy