GUILTY WA - Jay Cook, 20, & Tanya Van Cuylenborg, 18, Skagit County, 24 Nov 1987
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Wednesday, June 19th:
*Trial begins (Day 4) (@ 9am PT) – WA – Jay Cook (20) & Tanya Van Cuylenborg (18) (Nov. 19, 1987, Skagit County; Tanya found 11/24/87, Jay 11/26/87) – *William Earl Talbott II (56/24 @ time of crime) arrested (5/17/18), charged (5/18/18), indicted (6/15/18) & arraigned (6/19/18) with 2 counts of 1st degree murder. Plead not guilty (6/19/18). $2.5M bail. DA will not seek DP.
Investigators made a break in the cold case using a new strategy involving genetic genealogy (Parabon Nanolabs) & uploading DNA from the crime scene to a public, online genealogy (GEDMatch) database.
Trial started 6/14, and will last about 2-3 weeks. 12 jurors with 3 alternates.
Jury Selection hearings from 6/11/19 to 6/13/19 reference post #89 here:
Found Deceased - WA - Jay Cook, 20, & Tanya Van Cuylenborg, 18, Skagit County, 24 Nov 1987
6/14/19 Day 1: Opening statements by both sides. State witnesses: Linda Cunningham (worked for a LE dept. in British Columbia). John Van Cuylenborg (Tanya's bro). Laura Baanstra (Jay’s sister). Trial continues on Monday, 6/17.
6/17/19 Day 2: No info yet. Trial continues to 6/18.
6/18/19 Day 3: No info yet…. Trial continues to 6/19.
*Trial begins (Day 4) (@ 9am PT) – WA – Jay Cook (20) & Tanya Van Cuylenborg (18) (Nov. 19, 1987, Skagit County; Tanya found 11/24/87, Jay 11/26/87) – *William Earl Talbott II (56/24 @ time of crime) arrested (5/17/18), charged (5/18/18), indicted (6/15/18) & arraigned (6/19/18) with 2 counts of 1st degree murder. Plead not guilty (6/19/18). $2.5M bail. DA will not seek DP.
Investigators made a break in the cold case using a new strategy involving genetic genealogy (Parabon Nanolabs) & uploading DNA from the crime scene to a public, online genealogy (GEDMatch) database.
Trial started 6/14, and will last about 2-3 weeks. 12 jurors with 3 alternates.
Jury Selection hearings from 6/11/19 to 6/13/19 reference post #89 here:
Found Deceased - WA - Jay Cook, 20, & Tanya Van Cuylenborg, 18, Skagit County, 24 Nov 1987
6/14/19 Day 1: Opening statements by both sides. State witnesses: Linda Cunningham (worked for a LE dept. in British Columbia). John Van Cuylenborg (Tanya's bro). Laura Baanstra (Jay’s sister). Trial continues on Monday, 6/17.
6/17/19 Day 2: No info yet. Trial continues to 6/18.
6/18/19 Day 3: No info yet…. Trial continues to 6/19.
Legally Bland
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EVERETT — In an early draft of her report in 2018, a fingerprint analyst had ruled out William Talbott II as a possible match for a hand print found on a bronze van.
Then the state crime lab analyst realized she’d been looking at one of the samples upside down. It is now her opinion that the print belonged to the suspect. Talbott is accused of killing a young couple traveling in the van in 1987.
In a double murder trial where cutting-edge technology involving DNA has made national headlines, it was the “so-called science” of palm print analysis that drew a lengthy, vigorous challenge from the defense Tuesday in Snohomish County Superior Court.
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/van-palm-print-dna-come-to-forefront-in-double-murder-trial/
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EVERETT — In an early draft of her report in 2018, a fingerprint analyst had ruled out William Talbott II as a possible match for a hand print found on a bronze van.
Then the state crime lab analyst realized she’d been looking at one of the samples upside down. It is now her opinion that the print belonged to the suspect. Talbott is accused of killing a young couple traveling in the van in 1987.
In a double murder trial where cutting-edge technology involving DNA has made national headlines, it was the “so-called science” of palm print analysis that drew a lengthy, vigorous challenge from the defense Tuesday in Snohomish County Superior Court.
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/van-palm-print-dna-come-to-forefront-in-double-murder-trial/
Hate to bother you @Legally Bland - but you need a subscription to read the article. Was wondering if it lists the witnesses - I notice there was a state crime lab analyst, but no name... just want to keep my notes straight!
TIA!
Legally Bland
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Hate to bother you @Legally Bland - but you need a subscription to read the article. Was wondering if it lists the witnesses - I notice there was a state crime lab analyst, but no name... just want to keep my notes straight!
TIA!
No problem. I think there's only 2 witnesses mentioned, and the second one (DW) is only mentioned in a photo description. On sites like this, where they allow you to view a certain amount of articles before subscribing, you could try viewing it in an 'incognito window' / 'private browsing' or whatever the equivalent is on your browser. It generally works for me.
__________________
For close to an hour Tuesday, public defender Rachel Forde grilled a forensic scientist from the Washington State Patrol crime lab, Angela Hilliard, about her level of expertise and why she changed her opinion, when a more senior peer told her to go back and check her work.
[...]
Witness Dave Willard opens an evidence bag during the trial for William Talbott II at the Snohomish County Courthouse on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 in Everett, Wash.
ETA: Bit more on the evidence from same link:
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/van-palm-print-dna-come-to-forefront-in-double-murder-trial/
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Legally Bland
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I thought I'd copied over where the semen DNA was found, but I must have missed it out:
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/van-palm-print-dna-come-to-forefront-in-double-murder-trial/
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/van-palm-print-dna-come-to-forefront-in-double-murder-trial/
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Thursday, June 20th:
*Trial begins (Day 5) (@ 9am PT) – WA – Jay Cook (20) & Tanya Van Cuylenborg (18) (Nov. 19, 1987, Skagit County; Tanya found 11/24/87, Jay 11/26/87) – *William Earl Talbott II (56/24 @ time of crime) arrested (5/17/18), charged (5/18/18), indicted (6/15/18) & arraigned (6/19/18) with 2 counts of 1st degree murder. Plead not guilty (6/19/18). $2.5M bail. DA will not seek DP.
Investigators made a break in the cold case using a new strategy involving genetic genealogy (Parabon Nanolabs) & uploading DNA from the crime scene to a public, online genealogy (GEDMatch) database.
Trial started 6/14, and will last about 2-3 weeks. 12 jurors with 3 alternates.
Jury Selection hearings from 6/11/19 to 6/13/19 reference post #89 here:
Found Deceased - WA - Jay Cook, 20, & Tanya Van Cuylenborg, 18, Skagit County, 24 Nov 1987
6/14/19 Day 1: Opening statements by both sides. State witnesses: Linda Cunningham (worked for a LE dept. in British Columbia). John Van Cuylenborg (Tanya's bro). Laura Baanstra (Jay’s sister). Trial continues on Monday, 6/17.
6/17/19 Day 2: State witnesses: Forensic scientist from the Washington State Patrol crime lab, Angela Hilliard. Dave Willard. Trial continues to 6/18.
6/18/19 Day 3: No info yet…. Trial continues to 6/19.
6/19/19 Day 4: No info yet. Trial continues to 6/20.
*Trial begins (Day 5) (@ 9am PT) – WA – Jay Cook (20) & Tanya Van Cuylenborg (18) (Nov. 19, 1987, Skagit County; Tanya found 11/24/87, Jay 11/26/87) – *William Earl Talbott II (56/24 @ time of crime) arrested (5/17/18), charged (5/18/18), indicted (6/15/18) & arraigned (6/19/18) with 2 counts of 1st degree murder. Plead not guilty (6/19/18). $2.5M bail. DA will not seek DP.
Investigators made a break in the cold case using a new strategy involving genetic genealogy (Parabon Nanolabs) & uploading DNA from the crime scene to a public, online genealogy (GEDMatch) database.
Trial started 6/14, and will last about 2-3 weeks. 12 jurors with 3 alternates.
Jury Selection hearings from 6/11/19 to 6/13/19 reference post #89 here:
Found Deceased - WA - Jay Cook, 20, & Tanya Van Cuylenborg, 18, Skagit County, 24 Nov 1987
6/14/19 Day 1: Opening statements by both sides. State witnesses: Linda Cunningham (worked for a LE dept. in British Columbia). John Van Cuylenborg (Tanya's bro). Laura Baanstra (Jay’s sister). Trial continues on Monday, 6/17.
6/17/19 Day 2: State witnesses: Forensic scientist from the Washington State Patrol crime lab, Angela Hilliard. Dave Willard. Trial continues to 6/18.
6/18/19 Day 3: No info yet…. Trial continues to 6/19.
6/19/19 Day 4: No info yet. Trial continues to 6/20.
jaejae
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Do not think this report has been posted before:
Lawyers in a Murder Trial Clash Over a DNA Forensics Method
Andy Bronson/The Daily Herald/AP
On a large screen inside a packed Snohomish County courtroom, in Washington state, a young Canadian couple smiled out at the dimmed room from the relaxed, faded scene of a party. It was the last known picture taken of Tanya Van Cuylenberg and Jay Cook together before they disappeared in November 1987. Their bodies were discovered days after they went missing, more than 60 miles apart.
Thirty-one years later, William Talbott II is now standing trial as the first person to be accused of the double murder. In their opening statements on Friday, attorneys on both sides traced the teenagers’ last-known movements through ferry ticket stubs, deli receipts, and forgotten travelers’ checks. They catalogued the many dead ends pursued by police and, finally, the break last year provided by a DNA link to Talbott’s genealogy-curious relatives. Since then, law enforcement’s use of public ancestry websites has led to arrests in dozens of other cold cases and will likely show up in several more trials later this year and next. But in the first court case to test the use of genetic genealogy by law enforcement, a clash over its significance could prove to be the trial’s defining controversy.
Deputy prosecutor Justin Harleman described the groundbreaking forensic technique to the jury Friday, including how a genetic profile of crime scene DNA was uploaded to a public genealogy database. The matches it produced, and the family tree they fit into, led investigators to Mr. Talbott. “It first was a tool used to identify victims,” Harleman told the jury. “You’re going to hear how eventually this tool was used to search for and find perpetrators of these crimes.”
The defense disputed the characterization. “The genetic genealogy that you heard briefly about here, the prosecutor said is a good tool for catching perpetrators, which is inaccurate,” argued Jon Scott, a defense attorney for Talbott. “It’s a good tool for giving prosecutors an insight into who left particular biological evidence. Whether that person was the perpetrator or not, other evidence would need to show that.”
Both sides have agreed to treat genetic genealogy as a method for investigators to generate leads, akin to someone calling in a tip over the phone. Harleman said this explicitly on Friday. “The state is not going to ask you to convict Mr. Talbott based on this process,” he said. Instead, prosecutors will lean heavily on evidence taken after Talbott was arrested in May of 2018. First, a swab of DNA taken from inside his mouth that they say matches semen found at the crime scene. According to court documents, the chance that the DNA is not his is one in 180 quadrillion. And second, a palm print from Talbott’s left hand, which the Washington state crime lab found to be consistent with a partial print pulled off the van that Van Cuylenborg and Cook were driving at the time of their disappearance. These are the pieces of evidence they believe show Talbott to be the only person who could have committed these brutal murders.
But the defense argued Friday that it’s not enough. Semen found on the hem of Van Cuylenborg’s pants doesn’t explain where she was or what happened during the five days between when she was last seen alive and when her body was discovered resting partway down a roadside ditch, said Scott. He also laid out his plans to challenge the validity of the palm print match. And he pointed to the lack of other material evidence that might link Talbott to the murders, including murder weapons or personal belongings of the deceased couple that had gone missing after the attacks.
Of course, in a case as cold as this one, which happened before the era of cell phones and social media, there are bound to be a lot of gaps that memories clouded by time won’t be able to fill in. But in some ways, the absence of much other corroborating evidence may lead to a more pure test of genetic genealogy’s potential. Ultimately, it was his DNA and his DNA alone that made Talbott a suspect. And now the jury will decide if that’s enough to find him guilty. This week they will continue to hear testimony primarily from the investigators who worked the case in the late 1980s. The trial is expected to last until the end of June.
Meanwhile, on the opposite side of the country, another case using genetic genealogy is moving toward trial. In Virginia, 37-year-old Jesse Bjerke has been charged with raping a woman at gunpoint in 2016. Like Talbott, Bjerke was identified by a genetic genealogist at Parabon Nanolabs, using the free ancestry website GEDmatch. But unlike Talbott, Bjerke’s attorneys are now seeking to have the DNA evidence in his case thrown out on the grounds that assembling and testing a genetic profile without a warrant violates the Constitution, as reported by the Washington Post. Prosecutors in that case have until July 3 to file an official response.
Some law experts foresee more legal challenges of this nature, specifically to the use of genealogy website to identify suspects, as the practice becomes more commonplace. But whether the courts find them compelling remains an open question.
Erin Murphy, a law professor who studies forensic DNA technologies at New York University, says that courts tend to treat all DNA tests the same, overlooking the nuances that can compromise people’s privacy. She’s skeptical that they’ll make a distinction between genetic genealogy, which uses hundreds of thousands of gene-coding regions of DNA, and traditional forensic DNA matching, which uses about 20 regions from so-called “junk” areas of the genome. “It’s complete apples to oranges,” she says. “One is taking a picture of someone’s house, and one is rummaging through someone’s house for hours and hours. It should be causing the courts to gasp. But I’ve yet to see any court gasping.”
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Lawyers in a Murder Trial Clash Over a DNA Forensics Method
Andy Bronson/The Daily Herald/AP
On a large screen inside a packed Snohomish County courtroom, in Washington state, a young Canadian couple smiled out at the dimmed room from the relaxed, faded scene of a party. It was the last known picture taken of Tanya Van Cuylenberg and Jay Cook together before they disappeared in November 1987. Their bodies were discovered days after they went missing, more than 60 miles apart.
Thirty-one years later, William Talbott II is now standing trial as the first person to be accused of the double murder. In their opening statements on Friday, attorneys on both sides traced the teenagers’ last-known movements through ferry ticket stubs, deli receipts, and forgotten travelers’ checks. They catalogued the many dead ends pursued by police and, finally, the break last year provided by a DNA link to Talbott’s genealogy-curious relatives. Since then, law enforcement’s use of public ancestry websites has led to arrests in dozens of other cold cases and will likely show up in several more trials later this year and next. But in the first court case to test the use of genetic genealogy by law enforcement, a clash over its significance could prove to be the trial’s defining controversy.
Deputy prosecutor Justin Harleman described the groundbreaking forensic technique to the jury Friday, including how a genetic profile of crime scene DNA was uploaded to a public genealogy database. The matches it produced, and the family tree they fit into, led investigators to Mr. Talbott. “It first was a tool used to identify victims,” Harleman told the jury. “You’re going to hear how eventually this tool was used to search for and find perpetrators of these crimes.”
The defense disputed the characterization. “The genetic genealogy that you heard briefly about here, the prosecutor said is a good tool for catching perpetrators, which is inaccurate,” argued Jon Scott, a defense attorney for Talbott. “It’s a good tool for giving prosecutors an insight into who left particular biological evidence. Whether that person was the perpetrator or not, other evidence would need to show that.”
Both sides have agreed to treat genetic genealogy as a method for investigators to generate leads, akin to someone calling in a tip over the phone. Harleman said this explicitly on Friday. “The state is not going to ask you to convict Mr. Talbott based on this process,” he said. Instead, prosecutors will lean heavily on evidence taken after Talbott was arrested in May of 2018. First, a swab of DNA taken from inside his mouth that they say matches semen found at the crime scene. According to court documents, the chance that the DNA is not his is one in 180 quadrillion. And second, a palm print from Talbott’s left hand, which the Washington state crime lab found to be consistent with a partial print pulled off the van that Van Cuylenborg and Cook were driving at the time of their disappearance. These are the pieces of evidence they believe show Talbott to be the only person who could have committed these brutal murders.
But the defense argued Friday that it’s not enough. Semen found on the hem of Van Cuylenborg’s pants doesn’t explain where she was or what happened during the five days between when she was last seen alive and when her body was discovered resting partway down a roadside ditch, said Scott. He also laid out his plans to challenge the validity of the palm print match. And he pointed to the lack of other material evidence that might link Talbott to the murders, including murder weapons or personal belongings of the deceased couple that had gone missing after the attacks.
Of course, in a case as cold as this one, which happened before the era of cell phones and social media, there are bound to be a lot of gaps that memories clouded by time won’t be able to fill in. But in some ways, the absence of much other corroborating evidence may lead to a more pure test of genetic genealogy’s potential. Ultimately, it was his DNA and his DNA alone that made Talbott a suspect. And now the jury will decide if that’s enough to find him guilty. This week they will continue to hear testimony primarily from the investigators who worked the case in the late 1980s. The trial is expected to last until the end of June.
Meanwhile, on the opposite side of the country, another case using genetic genealogy is moving toward trial. In Virginia, 37-year-old Jesse Bjerke has been charged with raping a woman at gunpoint in 2016. Like Talbott, Bjerke was identified by a genetic genealogist at Parabon Nanolabs, using the free ancestry website GEDmatch. But unlike Talbott, Bjerke’s attorneys are now seeking to have the DNA evidence in his case thrown out on the grounds that assembling and testing a genetic profile without a warrant violates the Constitution, as reported by the Washington Post. Prosecutors in that case have until July 3 to file an official response.
Some law experts foresee more legal challenges of this nature, specifically to the use of genealogy website to identify suspects, as the practice becomes more commonplace. But whether the courts find them compelling remains an open question.
Erin Murphy, a law professor who studies forensic DNA technologies at New York University, says that courts tend to treat all DNA tests the same, overlooking the nuances that can compromise people’s privacy. She’s skeptical that they’ll make a distinction between genetic genealogy, which uses hundreds of thousands of gene-coding regions of DNA, and traditional forensic DNA matching, which uses about 20 regions from so-called “junk” areas of the genome. “It’s complete apples to oranges,” she says. “One is taking a picture of someone’s house, and one is rummaging through someone’s house for hours and hours. It should be causing the courts to gasp. But I’ve yet to see any court gasping.”
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Legally Bland
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The lack of reporting is really frustrating.
jaejae
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You have done a really good job finding information though.
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Legally Bland
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Nothing, sorry. I thought Canadian media would have picked this up too, but seems not.
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/talbott-trial-testimony-retraces-a-30-year-murder-mystery/
"In letters to the court, longtime friends told a judge last year that the man they knew as Bill Talbott never grew upset, never got in trouble with the law, and it was unimaginable that he could be a killer.
A U.S. Army veteran, 48, wrote he’d spent countless time with his friend Bill on motorcycle rides, at barbecues and on camping trips.
“I am very cautious with who I let into my life,” he wrote. “I am cautious with who I let into my families lives. Bill became a member of my family.”
Prosecutors expect to rest their case early next week."
"In letters to the court, longtime friends told a judge last year that the man they knew as Bill Talbott never grew upset, never got in trouble with the law, and it was unimaginable that he could be a killer.
A U.S. Army veteran, 48, wrote he’d spent countless time with his friend Bill on motorcycle rides, at barbecues and on camping trips.
“I am very cautious with who I let into my life,” he wrote. “I am cautious with who I let into my families lives. Bill became a member of my family.”
Prosecutors expect to rest their case early next week."
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Dang - used up my access to this paper....
Can you please give me "who" & their title were witnesses? I'd like to keep my notes straight!
TIA!
Legally Bland
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Jim Scharf, Snohomish County Sheriffs Office cold case detectiveDang - used up my access to this paper....
Can you please give me "who" & their title were witnesses? I'd like to keep my notes straight!
TIA!
Former sheriff Rick Bart was a homicide detective at the time
Scott Walker, a hunter [he found Jay]
Kara Hopper, who worked at Ben’s Deli in Allyn, Kitsap Peninsula
Former Skagit County deputy Jim Mowrer
Skagit County search-and-rescue volunteer Jenny Sheahan-Lee, now a detective sergeant at the Skagit County Sheriff’s Office
Judith Stone, store clerk, Hoodsport, about 30 miles north of Olympia
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/talbott-trial-testimony-retraces-a-30-year-murder-mystery/
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Legally Bland
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They're the only names mentioned, I couldn't tell you when they testified, sorry.So from one of the witnesses you listed - Rick Bart I have on 6/18.
So - if you find anything for 6/19 & 6/20 - would be Great!
And thank you for the post above! MUCH appreciated!