WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #17

[kageykaren]

Hi Razzberry, I wanted to let you know there is a full thread on JB and the bike argument. Start at the beginning, page one and you may see that since 7-7-09 we are asking the samr questions. If you go to the top of the w/s forums you will see search. Type in "JB (full name) Bike Argument, click and scroll to thread. Maybe looking at the bike fight again we could find out the mystery of the bike being discarded behind the Shell station and how it could be looked at as evidence. In my humble opinion/idea it seemed from the account of that evenning that JB would have to have turned around walking with faulty bike. My question is JB only had a spitting distant to take his bike home if in fact he went home. Hearing about the argument that brought a neighbor to show concern I felt JB wouldn't mind anyone and turned around, getting as far as the station when the back was dropped in an immediate way and with all the comotion everyone forgot about the bike, it's location for 2-3 days.

 

[razzberry]

Hi Kageykaren,
Thank you, I have read through the thread and I understand the bike/argument discussions.
Really my question is did the Baum children have more than one bike the day Lindsey dissapeared?
I ask because I have read that a Paul-O had stated that JB rode his bike over to Paul-O's property the night after Lindsey went missing at 11pm.
I find it odd that
A. JB would be allowed out at anytime of the day alone the day after his sister went missing.
B. He would be ridding a bicycle unless they had another,when you consider the bike was left at the station for days.
I have been wondering if Paul-O's statement is accurate or if he was trying to pre explain possible evidence of the bike being at his property??
Also per the astro threads there was a chastisment of Lindsey the day she dissapeared, they have stated that the bike/argument does not fit the chart for the chastisment.
I guess because of the other threads I have read I assumed that since MK had slept over the night before and the kids all went swimming all day Lindsey was'nt alone until she left MK's for home, so a chastisment most likley would have been witnessed by one of the other children she was with that day.
Hence my questions about all of them getting in trouble for something???

Sorry if this seems like Im rambling or re asking all the same questions, sometimes when you ask in a different way you get a clearer answer.

 

[TakeNote]

don't apologize razzberry.......:hug:

great post!
great questions!

 

[coastal]

don't apologize razzberry.......:hug:

great post!
great questions!

Yes. Lindsey is still missing, so all questions are still valid, IMHO.

How did I miss Paul O.'s statement, that JB biked to his house the same night Lindsey disappeared? I have seen posters refer to this statement, but have never seen it. Is it posted anywhere, that anyone can point me to?

I think I remember some discussion, re: that Paul O. also said, that JB told him, that night, that his mother was not at home, and that he (JB) didn't know where she was. Again, I have never seen such a statement, but only some discussion of it, so would appreciate any direction.

If in fact JB did visit PO the night of June 26, by way of a bicycle, and if indeed MB was unaccountably absent from home, without JB and/or LB, we've got some more questions to ask.

 

[kageykaren]

Hi Kageykaren,
Thank you, I have read through the thread and I understand the bike/argument discussions.
Really my question is did the Baum children have more than one bike the day Lindsey dissapeared?
I ask because I have read that a Paul-O had stated that JB rode his bike over to Paul-O's property the night after Lindsey went missing at 11pm.
I find it odd that
A. JB would be allowed out at anytime of the day alone the day after his sister went missing.
B. He would be ridding a bicycle unless they had another,when you consider the bike was left at the station for days.
I have been wondering if Paul-O's statement is accurate or if he was trying to pre explain possible evidence of the bike being at his property??
Also per the astro threads there was a chastisment of Lindsey the day she dissapeared, they have stated that the bike/argument does not fit the chart for the chastisment.
I guess because of the other threads I have read I assumed that since MK had slept over the night before and the kids all went swimming all day Lindsey was'nt alone until she left MK's for home, so a chastisment most likley would have been witnessed by one of the other children she was with that day.
Hence my questions about all of them getting in trouble for something???

Sorry if this seems like Im rambling or re asking all the same questions, sometimes when you ask in a different way you get a clearer answer.

I keep hearing the song "Razberry Beret" :dance: I don't think I have the answer for you but firmly feel your questions are valid and wish someone locally who has no intention of gains, wasn't so afraid to come forward to help put Lindsey's case into perspective. Sadly I think our questions have fallen on deaf ears. Seems there are no Heros in Lindsey's life stating, "Here I come to save the day!", then and now. Instead we are left with testimonials of love in song, online, and in media. The gestures may be needed to keep Lindsey's story alive but how sad the attention wasn't given to Lindsey while she was in McCleary trying to be alittle girl loved by all.

This might be a good time to pull all post by whoever discussed the bike. If the bike was behind the Shell station for 2-3 days as reported who's bike did JB ride? I'v always felt that the little we've heard out of JB concerning that evenning says many things. Whether JB's diagnosis of Aspergers is relevant or not it has been reported by KK that JB didn't fit in with the click of kids his age and was bullied regularly. O/T The repercussions for a young man like JB reported by therapist, forensic psychologist, teachers, social workers, can be devastating as shown in studies. I bet JB knows more about what goes on in the town than most as he isn't stupid one bit and knows right from wrong as he watches from the outside looking in. Sorry to ramble but there are so many questions and no one to speak to truth. It seems as if Lindsey's last few hours in McCleary or for that fact her entire time there has been constantly condensed into snippets. Was everything so quiet on June 27th that JB could sneak out and make his way to PO and for what reason would JB set himself up to get into trouble with the Law being out after curfew? Hopefully PO has talked with LE seeing as he is a trusted adult to JB.

I try to keep separate my Astro sluething and civillian sluething, as I catch myself constantly intertwining the two taking me into more confusion than if I look at them seprately. The only common denominator I see is the crime involves a dysfunctional home of caretaking, a brother possibly involved or knowing pertinent information, a mother, and an older SO, and photographica due to interpol. Six months later I'm just as confused as to where the investigation is leading but feel a sense that this case may mimick others (due to Interpold and new Federal agents assigned) therefore leading to a conviction of some sort. The south sound is a hot bed for meth and all its disgusting sex crimes that go with it. Add in poor economy with rampant drug & alcohol use your left with a town full of folks jonesing for something to keep physical and mental and sexual withdrawls away.

 

[JenniferO]

The mother of 11-year-old Lindsey Baum, who was abducted six months ago from McCleary, west of Olympia, is slated to attend the all-day Northwest Conference Against Trafficking in Jantzen Beach.

<snipped>

Lindsey&#8217;s mother, Melissa Baum, who believes her daughter is still alive, will attend the conference and staff a booth for the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children.
http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/jan/08/conference-targets-trafficking-in-humans/

http://nwcat.org/

 

[razzberry]

Kageykaren,

This morning I was visiting with my cousin who had come over to babysit for me today. You see today was to be my day off however there were not enough scheduled today and yesturday was a very stressfull day so I was called in. One of my co-workers has been through alot this past week. Anyhow to my point, as my cousin and I were talking I told her of my plan to walk in to work this morning, throw my hands up in the air and say/sing "here I am to save the day". When I read your reply to my post I nearly dropped!!!
strange:waitasec:

 

[Openmind]

Dylan's story hit me especially hard. I lived about 45 minutes from their home, and drove by their home often, including the night they were taken. Even though it's illogical, I feel a sense of guilt about it. Dylan's story is what got me involved in Websleuths, and in working for other missing and exploited children. So, I'm still "doing it for Dylan", because even though we can't save him anymore, we can save others because of him.

Every child's life it precious and must be protected and cherished, but I must admit something in little Dylan's face and story has stayed with me and I think always will. Dylan does remind us there are ways we can protect our children. He and his family should be here today enjoying life. Thanks, I4G, for all you do and for all your hard work to help children.

 

[coastal]

Kageykaren,

This morning I was visiting with my cousin who had come over to babysit for me today. You see today was to be my day off however there were not enough scheduled today and yesturday was a very stressfull day so I was called in. One of my co-workers has been through alot this past week. Anyhow to my point, as my cousin and I were talking I told her of my plan to walk in to work this morning, throw my hands up in the air and say/sing "here I am to save the day". When I read your reply to my post I nearly dropped!!!
strange:waitasec:

We had this sign on the wall at work:

We, the unwilling,
Led by the unknowing,
Have done so much
With so little
For so long,
That now
We can do anything
With nothing.

 

[jvk]

 

[scandi]

thanks kageykaren!!

This is something i hope someone can ask momB ....what the thought is why lindsey would be afraid to come home, and why she would have been mad.....what were the events that led up to that night....i do not believe it had anything to do with the bike or not being able to have someone spend the night......something is missing here

Hi TakeNote, That is a stellar observation we have hardly discussed.

I don't think Lindsey wanted to go home either:

:waitasec: Acc to KK the girls decided on the walk to KK's to see if Lindsey could stay at her house that night, to no avail ~ A sudden change, as MB expected Lindsey home that evening.
:waitasec: The RUMOR is Lindsey stopped at another friends house on her walk home, asking if she could spend the night there, to no avail ~ Showing Lindsey was mighy determined NOT to go back to her home for the night on the 26th.
:waitasec: JB was only about 5 or so min ahead of Lindsey on her walk home ~ Considering they had an argument almost the whole way to KK's it might mean something!
:waitasec: Lindsey had an ominous feeling {acc to her MS} that something BAD was going to happen ~ Was she being cautious, or did she have a more direct observation from something that she better watch out that night?

Teens and pre-teens go thru all kinds of emotional up's and downs, but since these other factors might have come into play, she could have really been in fear, anticipating the worst for her safety.

I also would like to hear Mom Baum's thoughts on this since she belongs to WS . Please. Like Kagey says, something is missing here. I see that plainer now than I ever have.


PS: This goes to profiling the victim in the case, which the FBI always does, not only profiling the Unsub. If we, or LE to be exact, could discover the answers to this major 'happening' with Lindsey, it might go far to understanding what happened that night.

I say that believing she was taken by a local whom she knew at least by sight, right under the noses of those whose company she usually kept. In the blink of an eye. It might easily relate to a nextdoor neighbor, uncle, pastor, mayor, husband of a friend of the family, on and on we could go, all spoken of with respect at this point as we don't know who it is yet.

But it is someone. She is long gone and she needs to be found. Someone knows JUST where she is tonight. How tragic that is. They don't even have the ba**s to admit the wrong they have done. xox

 

[TakeNote]

wow

 

[TakeNote]

does anyone know how many children paul O has and what ages they are?

do any of them have any kind of disability -maybe a little slow?

 

[scandi]

does anyone know how many children paul O has and what ages they are?

do any of them have any kind of disability -maybe a little slow?

Hi TakeNote, I hope all is well with you and think of you often with your dear little family. Ya Ya

I don't know, but I'll go do some reading about him. I know he is one of the old timer families in McCleary, well respected, owns allot of property, etc.



There is one thing different I read about the recounting Razz has given to us. That is that it was on the night that Lindsey vanished that Mr and Mrs Opelt saw the smoke coming out of the cellar and heard their dog/s barking like crazy. Maybe it was in Razz's posting. I had read that before so didn't re-read the whole thing.

I'd have to read her post again, but that cellar is like a door in the side of a small hill up above their home, aways away, but still in sight of where they live. And the man Mike {I think} who runs or owns the Shell station lives in the pink mobile home a stones throw from theirs. Hope I have that right.

The way I see it, Mr/Mrs Opelt might not be a party to Lindsey's going missing, but it very well could be that their cellar was used to hold her for a time until she could be moved. That is only my opinion from reading everything I have on the subject. It is the one possibility I have read about in this case that has made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. A grim possibility. xox


ETA: I don't want to imply by my post that Mike is involved in her disappearance because he lives adjacent to the weird happenings that occured on the night Lindsey vanished. It could be someone who knew one of these guys who had been there, knew of the cellar, etc. after all, it hadn't been even opened to the Opelt's knolwledge in years!

I could see this as a New Detective show a couple of years down the road, or a new book by Ann Rule, 'The Cellar Connection'. Almost spooky it is. Baring all odds, what I hope for the most is to see Lindsey found and brought back home. Whatever it takes, right?

 

[TamgMit]

I was wondering about the bike at the shell station. Could it be possible that LB and JB took this old man's bike in respects of trying to repair it and was going to bring it back. Could that be the trespass that Astro's are looking for. Seem the old man also likes to push a broken bike. I had wondered if JB likes to tinker and thought that he could fix it. Could LB have gone with him being that she was familure with him related to feeding him cookies and told him of what happened on the way to MK and the bike being at the shell station.

respectfully snipped:

He also said that there had been a very old homeless man living up in the woods behind his house who pushed a bike with no rubber on the tires though out the winter

 

[scandi]

I was wondering about the bike at the shell station. Could it be possible that LB and JB took this old man's bike in respects of trying to repair it and was going to bring it back. Could that be the trespass that Astro's are looking for. Seem the old man also likes to push a broken bike. I had wondered if JB likes to tinker and thought that he could fix it. Could LB have gone with him being that she was familure with him related to feeding him cookies and told him of what happened on the way to MK and the bike being at the shell station.

respectfully snipped:

He also said that there had been a very old homeless man living up in the woods behind his house who pushed a bike with no rubber on the tires though out the winter

Hi Tamg, Could it be this homeless man was silently staying in that cellar, knowing it was there, and in knowing the people who lived close to it so he felt it was his safe place? It could be. The homeless in Portland pick places that make them feel comfortable even tho they know they don't belong there. And in that, they feel safe and it is a real part of their world, so to speak. Hope that makes sense.

Do you think this person is Mark who Jvk encountered in his photo travels? Mark wasn't exceptionally old tho I don't think. xox

 

[TamgMit]

Thank you Razz for bring that information forward. Woow..... I am kind of confused on this homeless man seems like they are talking about two different people one a person around 20 years and then an older man. Maybe I am misinterrupting what I am reading.
respectfully snipped:

He said that the day after Lindsey went missing when the whole town was looking for her, this homeless guy was in the Shell station and that he (Paul) said something about hearing a rumor that they found her to Mike who was working and the homeless guy said something like &#8220;Oh they found her&#8221; and took off out of the store towards the hill behind Momsen and so Paul said he chased him into the woods and lost him (seems like he does a lot of chasing with no luck) I asked him what he looked like and he kept saying that it was all caught on tape and that the police had the tapes to prove it. He finally said he was about 20 years old (which seemed young to have a 4 year old that died in a fire) and he looked like me (dark hair, blue eyes, medium skin coloring) and that he was wearing orange shorts and a backpack&#8230;I also happened to be wearing an orange safety vest.
He said the police were looking for this homeless guy now and some locals said he was camped out by the creek on McNight Road &#8211; people had seen him hitchhiking so I asked him if he would go down to the search center and talk to them about all of this so they could schedule a search for the McNight Road area. Paul said that Josh and Lindsey were camping along the creek behind Simpson Lumber even on school nights and that is how this guy met them
Sunday morning we went to McNight Road and there happens to be a &#8220;very crazy old man&#8221; who greets people who trespass with a shotgun &#8211; he apparently shooed off other searchers before us &#8211; the neighbor says he is pretty well known to locals and very scary

I can imagine the searchers where pretty frighten by this encounter. I can only imagine. I guess I am confused.. sounds like two different people and seems kind of strange they say it an old man that LB was feeding cookies, Then at the store sounds like a young man. To a very protective man of his property and privacy. Just one question. Why the conflict?

 

[TamgMit]

Hi Tamg, Could it be this homeless man was silently staying in that cellar, knowing it was there, and in knowing the people who lived close to it so he felt it was his safe place? It could be. The homeless in Portland pick places that make them feel comfortable even tho they know they don't belong there. And in that, they feel safe and it is a real part of their world, so to speak. Hope that makes sense.

Do you think this person is Mark who Jvk encountered in his photo travels? Mark wasn't exceptionally old tho I don't think. xox

I have to agree with you scandi that if this older fella was camped on the creek on the McNight Rd. I can imagine he considered that his home, his safe haven, that he felt it a threat and was protective of the property and what possessions he had. It would be no different if someone came and invaded your home wanting to go through your things. Maybe in his mind he thought they where going to take something of his thereby showing the gun.


I wondered if it wasn't the 20 year old fella that befriended the LB had also befriend the daughter of PO. Kids do the darnest things to help other's out.
I had wondered that also if that could of been the same fella that JVK had mentioned but wasn't sure and that is how he knew some of the goings on in McCleary. Just my opion

 

[scandi]

Every child's life it precious and must be protected and cherished, but I must admit something in little Dylan's face and story has stayed with me and I think always will. Dylan does remind us there are ways we can protect our children. He and his family should be here today enjoying life. Thanks, I4G, for all you do and for all your hard work to help children.

I so agree with you Openmind, I4G is Da BOMB. I've often thought of her as a Guardian Angel for missing children. xox

 

[scandi]

I have to agree with you scandi that if this older fella was camped on the creek on the McNight Rd. I can imagine he considered that his home, his safe haven, that he felt it a threat and was protective of the property and what possessions he had. It would be no different if someone came and invaded your home wanting to go through your things. Maybe in his mind he thought they where going to take something of his thereby showing the gun.


I wondered if it wasn't the 20 year old fella that befriended the LB had also befriend the daughter of PO. Kids do the darnest things to help other's out.
I had wondered that also if that could of been the same fella that JVK had mentioned but wasn't sure and that is how he knew some of the goings on in McCleary. Just my opion

I think Jvk's Mark was middle aged, not a bum but rather had a place to stay and had a regular life he liked to escape from ~ and tip a few or two. Maybe we'll learn from Jvk tomoz. In fact I think of Mark as the town gossip and often druuuunk.

When I was newly married we used a laundrymat by our little house. Thanksgiving morning my hubby came home with a full fledged Native American who was homeless, to stay for a few days :angel: The only thing he was missing was the headress. LOL It all worked out fine, but what a little surprise. Even adults can do the darndest things. ;'}