WA WA - Samantha Sayers, 28, Vesper Peak, North Cascades, 1 August 2018

[glimjack]

I'm not sure if you're talking about other people or Sam? For Sam, according to the findsamsayers.com website, she started on the trailhead at about 9:50AM and was first spotted by the Boy Scout group at an unknown time in the morning and then they saw her again on her way up at about 12:30PM. Link to map with labeled times: MAPS | Find Sam Sayers

I think other people could have possibly started much later, especially if they were experienced hikers who knew they could summit and get down quickly. My brother likes to RUN up those same mountains for exercise (he's kind of crazy, if you ask me).

I'm not sure if you're talking about other people or Sam? For Sam, according to the findsamsayers.com website, she started on the trailhead at about 9:50AM and was first spotted by the Boy Scout group at an unknown time in the morning and then they saw her again on her way up at about 12:30PM. Link to map with labeled times: MAPS | Find Sam Sayers

I think other people could have possibly started much later, especially if they were experienced hikers who knew they could summit and get down quickly. My brother likes to RUN up those same mountains for exercise (he's kind of crazy, if you ask me).

You might be right. I've read conflicting reports about the boy scouts. At first I read that they were coming up later and didn't see her coming down, but now I'm reading that they were there earlier...? Things are always going to be a bit murky for people like us.

About people starting later... yes, the PNW is full of people that look at Vesper Peak and laugh at it.

 

[glimjack]

double post. nvm.

 

[zecats]

If you start up at 2-3 pm, summit at 5-6 pm, you can get back down by 8-9 pm which still wouldn't have been dark. From what I understand a boy scout group was on their way up around 2-3 pm and they didnt see her.

There is also video Sam Sayers walking through a snowfield and past a boulder right before the summit. The video shows several people in the immediate area, probably 6 to 8? Consider that there would be people up ahead of them and people behind them. SAR said there was a lot of people on the mountain that day and I don't think they're mistaken.


It's not that challenging if you're in shape. And some people aren't going to the top. Some are off to vesper lake to camp or whatever else.

I was going to suggest the same, that not every hiker there would be summiting. I presume there are thru-hikes as well so people starting later wouldn’t be planning to come down the same way. Some even may summit and continue down the other way, the way Sam was reported heading. I’ve read upthread that a trail there goes down a different way to a lake. So I agreee. Someone would have seen her headed back down. Jmo

 

[i'm someone]

I have a great deal of respect and admirations for SARS searching for Sam Sayers. This to include volunteers with drones, k9 dog and helicopters searching Vesper Peak and Lake Elan area for 4 weeks. SARS did a excellent job with this search .
Your right at some point it is not feasible to keep searching. This takes away for resources needed elsewhere, including the cost for Search and Rescue.
However a new command center is now about to be set up to search for Sam Sayers. This gives a approximately 3 week to locate her. The weather has
not helped with rain drizzle and over cast skies.
Look into various mountaineer boards for some underling tones

I don't think the family continuing to look once the official search is done is any indication they think SAR didn't do a good job. It's just an unfinished job, because she's still missing. If SAR isn't going to continue the search, and understandably, there is no reason for family and private search parties to go out and try. If the mountaineering community has a problem with that, it's not really their responsibility anymore. No money or resources are being taken from their efforts. So I don't understand the grumbling. If they are not going to continue, what's the problem with someone else continuing? I don't understand the problem with this.

 

[i'm someone]

“A YMCA group saw her going up the trail that Wednesday morning. A small rock climbing group bumped into her just before 3 p.m. at the summit. A man eating lunch at the top noticed Sayers, too. He did not eat with her, as the sheriff’s office had reported earlier, O’Keefe clarified Friday. That witness has been working with deputies to pinpoint her last known movement, possibly to the southeast.”

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/search-for-missing-hiker-nears-3-weeks-as-family-clings-to-hope/

Strangely, none of the later sightings show up on the maps. The video at 1:30 PM was the last confirmed sighting of her, I think.

 

[AllGrace]

I have not heard anyone anywhere on any board saying SAR didn't do enough or a good job. They just stopped at a point where it was not feaseable to keep looking, and the family and volunteers picked up the slack. Maybe the mountaineers are not familiar with trolls and squirrels. No one thinks they or LE did anything less than a thorough job searching that mountain. If there is some other possible scenario unrelated to the mountain, though, and it's not being checked out, that is not really thorough enough in other regards, IMO.

Someone related to Sam has openly complained and also more covertly complained. Almost daily. I cannot name them or link here but I have witnessed it in live videos.

 

[AllGrace]

I don't think the family continuing to look once the official search is done is any indication they think SAR didn't do a good job. It's just an unfinished job, because she's still missing. If SAR isn't going to continue the search, and understandably, there is no reason for family and private search parties to go out and try. If the mountaineering community has a problem with that, it's not really their responsibility anymore. No money or resources are being taken from their efforts. So I don't understand the grumbling. If they are not going to continue, what's the problem with someone else continuing? I don't understand the problem with this.

The issue is not that family and friends are mobilizing volunteers. It is the open and insinuated bashing of LE and SAR done by a certain close to Sam.

 

[i'm someone]

The issue is not that family and friends are mobilizing volunteers. It is the open and insinuated bashing of LE and SAR done by a certain close to Sam.

I am not seeing that, and if you think that the frustrated check-ins of a family member counts as "bashing", I don't think you are taking into account the grief process. There is no dissatisfaction with SAR, LE, or any other body of help that has assisted with Sam's case. There is only frustration at not finding her, and the red tape organizers have had to go through to continue searching privately. Please don't spread rumors of conflict, there is just none there. Just people trying to find a loved one.

 

[Marknatm]

Well, it seems to me if we discount abduction or foul play then it leaves 2 alternatives. Lost by going the wrong direction after reaching summit, a fall, or a combination. Oops 3 alternatives.
Thought it was mentioned that Sam had done Vesper 6 times. Is it possible that she headed in the wrong direction? You can travel a fair distance before you decide I'm going the wrong way. But Headlee Pass seems pretty distinctive so this doesn't seem too plausible. More likely it was still new to her and an opportunity to explore for awhile or take selfies.
Seems like a fall within a half mile radius of her last eyewitness sighting appears to be the most plausible explanation. Unfortunately, the terrain near the summit is extremely steep so a fall would probably be fatal.
I somehow doubt with the expected weather conditions that the likelihood of finding her is very high. Mountain Loop Highway will close sometime in October and won't open until around May. Their best chance may be then. The vegetation has died off, but a lot may still be covered by snow. This may end up being a very long search.

 

[EmmaRose]

I wonder when and where the last selfie was posted of Sam, not that it would solve this mystery....

 

[ees]

I do know, most people that hike a trail as challenging as vesper, dont usually start at 2 or 3 pm.

A hiker who knows the area isn’t going to be constrained by “normal hiking times”. Sunset and overnight hikes are typical for experienced hikers.

I can’t get my phone to insert the query on trail logs. Trail logs exist so the organization (usually a land trust or government entity) tasked with maintaining the trails can try to get an understand the trail useage. In the event of a missing person(s) case, they can assist with identifying if a person may/may not have signed in/out. I NEVER sign a trail log when hiking solo, and usually don’t bother when group hiking either. IMO people who need to know where I/we are, know.

 

[ChelaKitty]

NM. Sorry.

 

[sumo]

I have a great deal of respect and admirations for SARS searching for Sam Sayers. This to include volunteers with drones, k9 dog and helicopters searching Vesper Peak and Lake Elan area for 4 weeks. SARS did a excellent job with this search .
Your right at some point it is not feasible to keep searching. This takes away for resources needed elsewhere, including the cost for Search and Rescue.
However a new command center is now about to be set up to search for Sam Sayers. This gives a approximately 3 week to locate her. The weather has
not helped with rain drizzle and over cast skies.
Look into various mountaineer boards for some underling tones

about 1 hour ago it was stated the forest dept. told the helicopter they can't land on vespers peak. the forest dept. gave them the option to set up on the road. now, it looks like they're planning to have people carry the command center to the peak.

 

[Onebest]

about 1 hour ago it was stated the forest dept. will not allow the command center on vespers peak. the forest dept. said they can set up on the road but not in the park.

Road idea is just flat stupid. I don't get this. at. all. This planning has been going on for at least a week and now they are ready to roll and its declined. My personal understanding is that they got permission from SO, had plan reviewed and accepted etc.

I am wondering if the Forest Service was asked as well? Do they have to be asked ( I would think so)? Doesn't the SO have the final authority? Did the forest service say yes and then said no?? or was never contacted at all which might have sent someone into a tizzy fit? You would have to live in a light socket to not know this was planned. I don't know the answers to any of my questions I am just blithering with sadness.

Right now, I am just heartbroken for the family and searchers.

JMO

 

[Phantasma2624]

Road idea is just flat stupid. I don't get this. at. all. This planning has been going on for at least a week and now they are ready to roll and its declined. My personal understanding is that they got permission from SO, had plan reviewed and accepted etc.

I am wondering if the Forest Service was asked as well? Do they have to be asked ( I would think so)? Doesn't the SO have the final authority? Did the forest service say yes and then said no?? or was never contacted at all which might have sent someone into a tizzy fit? You would have to live in a light socket to not know this was planned. I don't know the answers to any of my questions I am just blithering with sadness.

Right now, I am just heartbroken for the family and searchers.

JMO

It doesn’t look like they had permission from the Forest Service at any point, even if the sheriff okayed it. Ultimately these kinds of parks fall under the jurisdiction of the forest service. KD’s video indicates that they were working with them to get permission, but received a call saying that they would not be allowed to set up a camp at the summit. He didn’t mention that permission had been revoked. Only that the forest service had looked at the application, and denied it.

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

A hiker who knows the area isn’t going to be constrained by “normal hiking times”. Sunset and overnight hikes are typical for experienced hikers.

(Respectfully snipped for relevancy of following comment....)

But she really did not go prepared for a sunset or overnight hike. She was wearing an outfit that most experienced hikers would never hike in, and brought along so few items that most hikers would not carry that bare minimum as she did, even for a day hike. I say this all respectfully, because I do believe Sam intended to go back home at sunset.

 

[sasha17]

about 1 hour ago it was stated the forest dept. told the helicopter they can't land on vespers peak. the forest dept. gave them the option to set up on the road. now, it looks like they're planning to have people carry the command center to the peak.

They were (are?) planning to set up the command center at Lake Elan (also called Vesper Lake). It's not at the peak, but part way up the trail. This site is mentioned in the Incident Action Plan that Kevin put in the FB group which summarizes their plans. If you look at the maps, it's the lake directly to the northeast of the peak. This is where the Boy Scout group who spotted Sam had set up their camp that day. If I understand correctly, they had wanted to bring in the supplies via helicopter to that site and are now planning to have volunteers pack it in from the trailhead instead.

 

[i'm someone]

Well, it seems to me if we discount abduction or foul play then it leaves 2 alternatives. Lost by going the wrong direction after reaching summit, a fall, or a combination. Oops 3 alternatives.
Thought it was mentioned that Sam had done Vesper 6 times. Is it possible that she headed in the wrong direction? You can travel a fair distance before you decide I'm going the wrong way. But Headlee Pass seems pretty distinctive so this doesn't seem too plausible. More likely it was still new to her and an opportunity to explore for awhile or take selfies.
Seems like a fall within a half mile radius of her last eyewitness sighting appears to be the most plausible explanation. Unfortunately, the terrain near the summit is extremely steep so a fall would probably be fatal.
I somehow doubt with the expected weather conditions that the likelihood of finding her is very high. Mountain Loop Highway will close sometime in October and won't open until around May. Their best chance may be then. The vegetation has died off, but a lot may still be covered by snow. This may end up being a very long search.

And the fourth option is an animal attack, which happened just within the same month on another mountain nearby. Mountain Lion. Someone involved in Sam's case said something about many catholes? up there. That possibly she could find shelter in one. What if she found shelter in one, and it angered a big cat? Can that happen? Either way, some items would have been scattered to matter what scenario we throw out there. Wouldn't they? And if it was the case that the first few nights she was alive but sheltering, wouldn't she have shown up on the heat cameras?

 

[Suglo]

They were (are?) planning to set up the command center at Lake Elan (also called Vesper Lake). It's not at the peak, but part way up the trail. This site is mentioned in the Incident Action Plan that Kevin put in the FB group which summarizes their plans. If you look at the maps, it's the lake directly to the northeast of the peak. This is where the Boy Scout group who spotted Sam had set up their camp that day. If I understand correctly, they had wanted to bring in the supplies via helicopter to that site and are now planning to have volunteers pack it in from the trailhead instead.

My understanding is that they cannot set up there either even if they pack it in themselves. It sounds like they are allowed to use the trailhead parking lot but not set up in the actual mountain. That’s what official SAR does also. They use the trailheads to set up command operations.

 

[sasha17]

And if it was the case that the first few nights she was alive but sheltering, wouldn't she have shown up on the heat cameras?

Snipped and BBM for emphasis.

I think this is an important point! Regardless of whether she was lost, trapped, hiding, etc., if she was alive the first few days, she would have been visible with the heat cameras on the helicopters. IMO, this means she either died relatively quickly (before the heat sensing helicopters arrived) or she just isn't on the mountain in the areas they were searching with the heat sensors.