WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #3

[belimom]

I do think that Azriel's drowning was accidental.

My current thoughts. Either:

1) She passed out, and Azriel woke to find water rising. He got out of the car and tried to escape. She woke later to find him missing

OR

2) They both slept and woke together. She lost him in the water somehow.

THEN... she did try to get help by banging on the door at 1:00am. If the homeowners set off the alarm (not sure about this?), then she bolted out of fear. She may be hiding or may have committed suicide. But for some reason, I'm not convinced that she's in the water.

ETA: I think her multiple stops may have been feeble attempts at asking for help... or just trying to find people to be around. Sometime folks who are desperate will want to be around people - even random people - because being alone also means being alone with their thoughts.

 

[90Nine]

Interesting stuff....

http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?LinkKey=20991&orgkey=1988

BSA Volunteers and Background Checks (CBC) Information

As dedicated BSA volunteers, you understand the importance of keeping our youth safe in the Scouting program. To ensure Youth Protection, our organization has conducted criminal background checks on all new volunteers since April 2003. Because some volunteers have been continually registered in the program before April 2003, some have not had a criminal background check. In the next few months, we will be communicating with those volunteers on this issue.

Volunteers who have not had a background check will receive a letter from our Chief Scout Executive, Bob Mazzuca, recognizing them as valued volunteers and explaining the need for criminal background checks and our continued youth protection efforts. The letter will explain the need for consent to conduct a criminal background check and direct volunteers to a new Web site (www.bsacbc.org) where volunteers can authorize and provide information needed to conduct a CBC. This Web site will be active from June 1 until August 1, 2008.

 

[yosande]

Smiley was last seen alive at 10 pm. Rob was with the stepfather from 8pm on. Therefore she was last seen alive after Rob has an alibi. He may be used to talking about himself, but unless he can be in two places at once, he's not directly involved.

Also, the Ariel's dad said on the D&R (?) radio show that he thought he seemed like a good guy and loved Smiley and Ariel and that he (Carver) didn't have any suspicions about him, based on talking to him.

So I think more likely booze is to blame in this mystery.

Iirc, RS and the stepfather went to sleep around midnight, "for a few hours."
moo

 

[Jules71]

You don't think a class that is listed as lasting for a continuous 25 1/2 hours is inaccurate?

I don't know if this has already been stated (I am still catching up) - but this class that started on the 12th and ended on Sat. the 13th at 6 PM was an overnight camp/training at Camp Pigott.

 

[sorrell skye]

I agree....and I am guessing she might have been kidnapped, OR... she plannned to runaway and leave the boy behind. But, I'm not sure she planned on him drowning.

Snipped from this article:

http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/17/1174911/no-new-clues-in-missing-pair.html

Mealy said detectives took a second look at Smiley’s minivan after the inside of the vehicle, which had been partly underwater at high tide, dried out. They dusted the vehicle for fingerprints but found no new evidence, he said.

Also from the same article:

When a neighbor discovered the minivan on the beach Sunday morning, Smiley’s wallet, containing identification and credit cards, was in the backseat, but her purse was missing. The van’s side door and rear hatch were open.

I'm assuming the "no new evidence" after dusting the van for fingerprints means they only found prints they expected to find - those of either Shantina, Azriel, or Robb.

If there were any other prints in or on the vehicle, they were either washed away by the water, or smudged/smeared by the sand that was on the van, or were for some other reason not viable.

I don't think anyone else was there on that beach with them, or in the van with them.

I have no idea what she was planning that night - and I truly hope her little boy drowning was not part of that plan.

I truly hope it was all a horrible, unforeseen accident.

But there are too many oddities that defy explanation, not the least of which: how in the heck did this happen (getting "lost" in Olympia for several hours - when at times she wasn't far from I-5; somehow arriving on that remote beach by way of that impossible to see driveway, especially at night), and where is she?

ETA: There is a reason why certain things make logical people sit up & say "Huh?" I learned a long time ago to pay attention when things don't add up, or when my hinky meter starts buzzing.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I keep going back to the fact that it had to be extremely cold in that van at night on the water. The keys were found on the dash board so we know that the heat wasn't being used. I just don't know how they could sit in that van for any length of time much less attempt to sleep(?). I just don't believe that for a moment.

 

[impatientredhead]

Iirc, RS and the stepfather went to sleep around midnight, "for a few hours."
moo

The fact that she went to sleep that night to me says they thought she was on a bender, weren't wildly surprised by it, and did not think she was suicidal or homicidal.

If this was truly out of character for her they would have been out driving the streets of Olympia. It would be totally out of character for me and I know my DH would not be going to bed during the critical hours of me first being out of contact.

At a minimum he would be on the phone with every person I have ever had contact with to see if anyone had heard from me. We didn't hear any report of that either, right? No one went home to get her cell phone to get numbers from it?

moo

 

[impatientredhead]

I keep going back to the fact that it had to be extremely cold in that van at night on the water. The keys were found on the dash board so we know that the heat wasn't being used. I just don't know how they could sit in that van for any length of time much less attempt to sleep(?). I just don't believe that for a moment.

do we know if the van still had gas in it when they towed it?
was the battery dead?

 

[SMK]

I do think that Azriel's drowning was accidental.

My current thoughts. Either:

1) She passed out, and Azriel woke to find water rising. He got out of the car and tried to escape. She woke later to find him missing

OR

2) They both slept and woke together. She lost him in the water somehow.

THEN... she did try to get help by banging on the door at 1:00am. If the homeowners set off the alarm (not sure about this?), then she bolted out of fear. She may be hiding or may have committed suicide. But for some reason, I'm not convinced that she's in the water.

ETA: I think her multiple stops may have been feeble attempts at asking for help... or just trying to find people to be around. Sometime folks who are desperate will want to be around people - even random people - because being alone also means being alone with their thoughts.

I think this is a very psychologically astute understanding, and hits closest to the truth.

 

[sorrell skye]

Quotes from an article from before little Azriel's body was found, when he & his mother were both still missing:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20000562-504083.html

"It gets dark up there. It gets really, really dark," Mealy said. "I was there Sunday afternoon. I had trouble finding that trail in the daylight."

"Somebody somewhere knows something," Mealy said. "She could be missing voluntarily. Something untoward could have happened to her. She could have done something untoward to her son. We have no clue."


Sounds like LE was keeping all options open as to what may have happened. Since LE was (and hopefully still is) IMO, so should we.

 

[Jules71]

Off Zangle Road NE in North Olympia is a narrow gravel road leading to the beach where the van Shantina Smiley had been driving was found. The entrance to that gravel road is marked by a red arrow. (Photo courtesy of reader Robert Dashiell)

http://www.kitsapsun.com/photos/gal...tina-smiley-disappearance/8910/#ixzz0il5JQ15u

I can't find this house on Google Earth or Google Maps. What is the address? This isn't Pribbenow's house (the man who called 911), is it?

 

[RubyRed]

Family comes together to remember boy

This is not the service family and friends planned for 8-year-old Azriel Carver.

His grandma said, "We were really hoping this was going to be a prayer of thanksgiving."

http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/Search-for-missing-boy-ends-in-tragedy

 

[RubyRed]

I can't find this house on Google Earth or Google Maps. What is the address? This isn't Pribbenow's house (the man who called 911), is it?

8345 Zangle Rd NE is the address, The map below posted by 90Nine shows the property. It is not the house that heard the knock at 1am.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/birds-eye-view-map/49361379_zpid/#birds-eye-view

 

[SusanB]

Just checking in to see if there was anything new.
I would have thought if she were drowned, her body would have washed up somewhere by now, since she and her son basically went into the water around the same place - or did they?
I'm starting to think maybe she is alive, and ashamed/terrified to come out. Or suicide, upon realization of little Az's death.
I do not fault the fiance's verbage regarding SS's alcoholism. First of all, it is very shameful to admit you have alcoholism, or that a dear loved one is afflicted. It suddenly puts that person in a bad light, and less worthy somehow. Also, he may not really understand that alcoholics cannot "control" using - that is, they cannot have even a beer (as in with the pizza). Many folks think it is alright as long as the alcoholic "only" has beer/wine, or "only" one or two drinks.
Alcoholics are allergic to ANY alcohol - they cannot even have a drop (even like Nyquil or some mouthwashes). If they do, it initiates a series of chemical reactions in the body, and totally changes the person's demeanor and ability to reason.
Many family members do not understand this, and with good intentions and hopeful desires WANT their loved one to be "normal" and live like the regular non-addicted person that they themselves are. They mean well, and truly are trying to help, but unfortunately, the alcoholic must maintain strict abstinence, therefore, everyone around them needs information about this disease.

 

[sorrell skye]

Family comes together to remember boy

http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/Search-for-missing-boy-ends-in-tragedy

So, so sad - the loss of a child, especially under these unexplainable circumstances. My heart goes out to his family & friends. There is an emptiness in their lives now where little Azriel used to be, with all his energy & smiles, as we have only witnessed in his pictures.

I pray that Azriel's loved ones are comforted and consoled in their grief. But I know it will take time before the raw pain subsides.

Truly heartbreaking.

 

[RubyRed]

Family comes together to remember boy

Those who knew Azriel said he was funny, like his father.

Family and friends are using humor to mask the pain, and hope these words will help the child's father.

"I hold your hand and whisper in your ear. If you're sad today, daddy, remember I am here."

http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/local/Family-comes-together-to-remember-boy

 

[90Nine]

I posted the pic here so we could look at it again. I have no idea what it is.

I've been looking at this photo - to the left of the clear tracks going towards the water (which are probably from towing or emerg veh) are another set of vague tracks. It looks like she came in from the left and drove in a half circle from there.

That would explain the van ending up with the back towards the water. You can see where the tracks end up where the car was stuck.

Just a thought.

 

[Jules71]

8345 Zangle Rd NE is the address, The map below posted by 90Nine shows the property. It is not the house that heard the knock at 1am.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/birds-eye-view-map/49361379_zpid/#birds-eye-view

That is the address I have been mapping, but I cannot make this picture jive with what I see on the maps. It doesn't make sense. The small road marked by the red arrow would have to be heading west to get to the water, so it looks as if this picture was taken looking south, but the road south does not end (if that is Zangle). Or is the horizontal road Zangle. Even so, I can't make sense of it. Can someone post a map and mark where this little road down to the beach is. Thanks!

 

[lawlady84]

Ah, you know what. She wouldn't have had a criminal record on the DUI:



http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/17/missing-silverdale-woman-had-a-dui-and-order-in/


That means she was never prosecuted, never convicted, and so no criminal record.

It depends how they do the background check. If you do it through one of the legal services like Westlaw or LexisNexis, they list all criminal cases the person was involved in. I searched for SS's name under "WA Criminal Records" and her DUI and Hit&Run both came up - but it says no final adjudication.

So it really should have come up.

 

[RubyRed]

That is the address I have been mapping, but I cannot make this picture jive with what I see on the maps. It doesn't make sense. The small road marked by the red arrow would have to be heading west to get to the water, so it looks as if this picture was taken looking south, but the road south does not end (if that is Zangle). Or is the horizontal road Zangle. Even so, I can't make sense of it. Can someone post a map and mark where this little road down to the beach is. Thanks!

With the photos below, it just looks like a dirt/gravel trail. Maybe it is not on a map..I don't know. Without the red arrow showing me I would not know it was there.

Off Zangle Road NE in North Olympia is a narrow gravel road leading to the beach where the van Shantina Smiley had been driving was found. The entrance to that gravel road is marked by a red arrow. (Photo courtesy of reader Robert Dashiell)

This is near the end of the beach access road where the van Shantina Smiley was driving was found. At the end of this graveled road is a very sharp drop-off to the right. The red dot marks the approximate location of the vehicle, which was removed by investigators Sunday. The waterway to the left leads to Boston Harbor. (Photo courtesy of Robert Dashiell)

http://www.kitsapsun.com/photos/gal...appearance/8911/#section_header#ixzz0imQ7ZuTx