WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #7

[NickyStarship]

I know, it seems to have reached a dead end.

.
NO. I am not letting this reach a dead end. I refuse to. I've been thinking the whole time "has there been any more similar cases in the area?" I don't believe she got down there on her own. The is a third party I have this feeling that there is. Does anyone know of anything similar to this that's happened in the area withing the past 20 years?

 

[SMK]

.
NO. I am not letting this reach a dead end. I refuse to. I've been thinking the whole time "has there been any more similar cases in the area?" I don't believe she got down there on her own. The is a third party I have this feeling that there is. Does anyone know of anything similar to this that's happened in the area withing the past 20 years?

Hi, dear. I hope this is not upsetting you. I feel terribly that someone so young as you is going through this. I do not know how I would have handled this at 15. I am glad you are close to your Dad and brother. It's just a thought, but perhaps you (with Dad) could ask the police if they have any records in that area, of any kind of similar vanishing. Please know that everyone here feels horrible for you and your family, and that we are sending you all our warmest thoughts and prayers.:innocent:

 

[Calliope]

No, he looked pretty much the way my own son looked at that age, who was closer to that average. Do you think if the 100 pounds was an error, and Azriel was more the normal size and weight, this accounts for his washing up earlier? I would think it would.

At 4' 8" he was just a little above average height, but no way was he nearly double average weight. I think it was a mistake.

http://www.robbsimmons.com/Flyer.pdf

The flyer with his height and weight; that's where the 100 pounds is coming from, I think.

 

[NickyStarship]

Hi, dear. I hope this is not upsetting you. I feel terribly that someone so young as you is going through this. I do not know how I would have handled this at 15. I am glad you are close to your Dad and brother. It's just a thought, but perhaps you (with Dad) could ask the police if they have any records in that area, of any kind of similar vanishing. Please know that everyone here feels horrible for you and your family, and that we are sending you all our warmest thoughts and prayers.:innocent:

I'd be crazy if it wasn't. and I'm going to. I just have a feeling. I don't know how to look up all the missing persons cases in Thurston Co. I've only found Nancy Moyer's flyer. Which is almost similar, except her personal items (purse etc..) were still there. but I will talk to police.
We feel the prayers and love. Its helping us to keep moving even though we feel we've hit a brick wall. :banghead: <-- much like this one. Can anyone look up the criminals in the area? Thank you. I can't stress how surprisingly helpful you all have been <3

 

[Jules71]

At 4' 8" he was just a little above average height, but no way was he nearly double average weight. I think it was a mistake.

http://www.robbsimmons.com/Flyer.pdf

The flyer with his height and weight; that's where the 100 pounds is coming from, I think.

Isn't average height 45 inches? And he was 4'8" (56 inches)? So he was 11 inches, almost a foot taller, than the average. He didn't seem that tall to me either, but I could be wrong. I think both are inaccurate - JMO.

 

[SMK]

I'd be crazy if it wasn't. and I'm going to. I just have a feeling. I don't know how to look up all the missing persons cases in Thurston Co. I've only found Nancy Moyer's flyer. Which is almost similar, except her personal items (purse etc..) were still there. but I will talk to police.
We feel the prayers and love. Its helping us to keep moving even though we feel we've hit a brick wall. :banghead: <-- much like this one. Can anyone look up the criminals in the area? Thank you. I can't stress how surprisingly helpful you all have been <3

I am glad you feel we are helping. I will see what research I can do. I know how frustrating it must be for you all, but please take care of yourself, and remember that many people go through this kind of restless wondering when loved ones are tragically lost. Grieving is a terrible process for everyone, but these conditions make it doubly hard. Know that we care, and stay close to Dad and brother. Keep your chin up. Not easy, I know, and I am so sorry.

 

[RubyRed]

I'd be crazy if it wasn't. and I'm going to. I just have a feeling. I don't know how to look up all the missing persons cases in Thurston Co. I've only found Nancy Moyer's flyer. Which is almost similar, except her personal items (purse etc..) were still there. but I will talk to police.
We feel the prayers and love. Its helping us to keep moving even though we feel we've hit a brick wall. :banghead: <-- much like this one. Can anyone look up the criminals in the area? Thank you. I can't stress how surprisingly helpful you all have been <3

Hi Nicky, we will try to help any way we can.

 

[Jules71]

Nicky,
Do you think the height and weight listed for Azriel are correct? 100 pounds and 56 inches? Did he seem around the same size as other kids his age - his friends at school and other wolf cubs?

 

[RubyRed]

Oregon kidnapper may be in Inland Northwest

Spokane olice in Clarkston, Washington say a cellphone belonging to a suspected kidnapper was found along side Highway 12 near Clarkston Thursday.

http://www.kxly.com/news/22816396/detail.html

This link goes into more detail, scary guy, can't find anywhere that says he was caught.( Posed as cop)

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=71863

 

[Jules71]

I hope it's ok to ask this. If not, someone please tell me.

Nicky,
Did you see Kat before she and Az left for CR? Did she seem ok to you? Was she unusually upset or distant in the hours or days before she left?

I am so sorry you are having to go through this.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

I wish I knew something to help. But the only Thurston County case I've ever followed is Amy Mullins (murdered by husband, found several days later).

 

[NickyStarship]

I am glad you feel we are helping. I will see what research I can do. I know how frustrating it must be for you all, but please take care of yourself, and remember that many people go through this kind of restless wondering when loved ones are tragically lost. Grieving is a terrible process for everyone, but these conditions make it doubly hard. Know that we care, and stay close to Dad and brother. Keep your chin up. Not easy, I know, and I am so sorry.

I know theres approx. 58 missing women in Thurston Co. I got booted before I could take a good look at all of them. /I know. I made an attempt to contact Annasmom even though she's probably going through a lot worse.

Nicky,
Do you think the height and weight listed for Azriel are correct? 100 pounds and 56 inches? Did he seem around the same size as other kids his age - his friends at school and other wolf cubs?

Yeah, seems correct. He was a big boy. Didn't metabolize foods very fast and ate a lot.He weighed the same as my other little brother whos'11.

I hope it's ok to ask this. If not, someone please tell me.

Nicky,
Did you see Kat before she and Az left for CR? Did she seem ok to you? Was she unusually upset or distant in the hours or days before she left?

I am so sorry you are having to go through this.

Yeah. I saw them that Friday before I went to my birth mother's house for the weekend. Azriel was hugging me and telling me he loved me as usual. And my mom told me to make sure I come home and that she loved me and she's see me Sunday night.

 

[SMK]

I know theres approx. 58 missing women in Thurston Co. I got booted before I could take a good look at all of them. /I know. I made an attempt to contact Annasmom even though she's probably going through a lot worse.



Yeah, seems correct. He was a big boy. Didn't metabolize foods very fast and ate a lot.He weighed the same as my other little brother whos'11.



Yeah. I saw them that Friday before I went to my birth mother's house for the weekend. Azriel was hugging me and telling me he loved me as usual. And my mom told me to make sure I come home and that she loved me and she's see me Sunday night.

Nicky: I just wanted to say, I understand you need answers, but at the same time, you must be patient, and you cannot tear yourself apart. I think what helps grieving people, is to hold the lost loved ones inside you, and carry them in your heart. They are never more than a thought away. I think your Dad would not want to see you in such torment. Know that we all care, and that in time, answers may come. You are a good girl, and should be proud of yourself. :innocent:

 

[Alaska4959]

With all due respect, we are dealing with a wide open beach, the tow truck drivers are experienced, there is no need for him to be doing all the up and back around like that! He would back in once. Line it up and hook to the cast iron ring most vehicles have for towing. Then a winch winds the vehicle up and pulls it onto a flatbed truck. The tow truck has a side to side and up and down guidance to do ANY adjusting to line it up. They do NOT pull up and back like that!

Those tracks would be made by her vehicle.

Thanks for reading my post. We do not have to agree on this, I was just throwing out another possibility. I have been in the transportation business for 10 years. I have seen a lot of tow trucks in action in my line of work. The drivers are not all experts at their jobs or always familiar with the trucks they are using. Not only have I seen inexperienced drivers make several attempts to get it right but I have had them damage the car in the process. I guess I was assuming a novice at the wheel. No where do I see a picture of the van on a flatbed. This picture does show the van behind a tow truck and since it is parked on the pavement it is clearly not on the beach anymore. I guess your flatbed must have been used later?

 

[houndstooth]

Thanks for reading my post. We do not have to agree on this, I was just throwing out another possibility. I have been in the transportation business for 10 years. I have seen a lot of tow trucks in action in my line of work. The drivers are not all experts at their jobs or always familiar with the trucks they are using. Not only have I seen inexperienced drivers make several attempts to get it right but I have had them damage the car in the process. I guess I was assuming a novice at the wheel. No where do I see a picture of the van on a flatbed. This picture does show the van behind a tow truck and since it is parked on the pavement it is clearly not on the beach anymore. I guess your flatbed must have been used later?

No we do not have to agree. If not on a flatbed, as I thought I recalled seeing, then this tow truck model both have the side to side bar action that moves to align with the vehicle to be towed. The point is we are not talking about trying to get a car that is parallel parked somewhere. It is wide open. I would think this driver knew his business and would not have made repeated turns back and forth in a semi circle to get it set to tow.

There is every reason to believe that the tracks were made by SS.

My take on the picture of the tracks is that the water's edge is to the right on the picture and she was facing away from it. The left side out of view would be the access road.

 

[sarx]

Just curious, were the tracks ever confirmed to match her vehicle? If not isn't it possible that someone (like teens) had been out there goofing around, I remember making those same type of circles in my younger days.

 

[LCoastMom]

So according to Mealy's time line - what happened between 10:35 and 11:00 (25 mins)? It would not have taken her that long to get from GHM to that location off Zangle. It should have taken about 6 mins.

I guess I don't agree with Mealy's statement that nothing criminal could have happened to her in those 25 minutes. Someone could have followed her down there or she could have followed someone she was meeting down there - and then something went horribly wrong.

Or - nothing criminal happened and she drove down there on her own and it took her 25 mins. to find that spot, they went to sleep in the van, tide came in and took them away. Items from the van were washed out of the van by the tide and then deposited at that spot (where they were found) on the beach. She is in the Puget Sound and has not yet surfaced.

Especially since we know there is a RSO around the block from DW's house.

IIRC another neighbor, told another neighbor, that told him in the morning. Maybe they didn't want to disturb him because it was late. So maybe one of the other neighbor's saw something and that is where the 11 pm came from. Anyway it happened it is all unfortunate. I am sure they feel terrible.

The 1st neighbor saw it when it was almost completely submerged, so very early AM (high tide peaked at 6am) - he told JP's next door neighbor - who told JP and he called it in. I wonder why no one called it before JP?

Thinking more about the needing gasoline possibility (after leaving the DW house), I don't feel she would have turned the opposite direction just to look for gas.

It would make more sense to follow the directions given to her by DW and hope to see a station along the way, if getting onto the hwy just then was her intention.

The straight shot from HP to Safeway - is Division to Elliott to Harrison. (4 minutes) If she had stayed on Elliot, at the Harrison/Cooper intersection - Elliot becomes Cooper. Cooper leads straight to the HWY. It was a straight shot.

 

[SMK]

Especially since we know there is a RSO around the block from DW's house.



The 1st neighbor saw it when it was almost completely submerged, so very early AM (high tide peaked at 6am) - he told JP's next door neighbor - who told JP and he called it in. I wonder why no one called it before JP?



The straight shot from HP to Safeway - is Division to Elliott to Harrison. (4 minutes) If she had stayed on Elliot, at the Harrison/Cooper intersection - Elliot becomes Cooper. Cooper leads straight to the HWY. It was a straight shot.

I wonder if LE ever checked out this RSO in the area?

 

[slowpoke]

My take on the picture of the tracks is that the water's edge is to the right on the picture and she was facing away from it. The left side out of view would be the access road.

Hm. Now I am more unsure. I think you're thinking what I originally thought, too.

But after studying the following picture, I began to think I may have been looking at it the wrong way? What do you think:

The text under this image seems to indicate that it is a view from the access road looking down towards the beach.

So I see a green area at the end of the black (gravel?) area, and something that could be the "bulkhead" just beyond that green area.

So if you look back at the other photo of the overhead view with tracks, wouldn't the water where the van was found be have been somewhere to the left or bottom side of that photo?

I am so confused. Oh well. Doesn't matter that much, I guess, except I was trying to figure out what she was doing, according to her tracks. If they were her tracks, that is! Who knows, as some of you have said, it could just be the tow truck's tracks.

 

[LCoastMom]

What do the stops have in common, what is different:

She left Silverdale at 5PM - stopped in Oly - ??? to call Robb at 6:45.

They are seen on video at the Handy Pantry at 7:54 - their website is linked with Texaco [store closes at 11pm on Saturday] But not verified what brand they are selling.

Fast Shop - 3205 Harrison Avenue Northwest (4 minutes per Google) Mini mart/store brand gas (as best I can tell from their web site and street view) not seen making a purchase here - brief video she appears to be OK - looks at a map.

If she had stayed on Elliot, at the Harrison/Cooper intersection - Elliot becomes Cooper. Cooper leads straight to the HWY. It was a straight shot.

Between Safeway and Diner she passed several chain restaurants, but drives away from town (and HWY) and stops at a "neighborhood type diner".

She was at the Martin Way Diner on 4th at 9:08 358 ft. from the diner there is a 24 hr Shell station 4th Ave Shell -

Instead of going to the Shell Station that is right there and open she drives - 5 1/2 miles (11 minutes per Google) further away from town - to the Mercantile it's another minimart/ Shell Station She is seen there at 954 and 1035. [closed at 9PM]

21:55 33 13/03/2010 camera 6


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - WA WA-Shantina Smiley, 29, Msg & Azriel Carver, 8, found deceased, #7

The video that Fox showed in this clip lets us think she is driving away from the HP, but the time stamp shows she is driving away from the Mercantile at 9:55.

Between these last stops there are not a lot of choices of places to pick from at 10PM - In the area around the Martin Way Diner, used cars and auto repair. Half way there, it starts becoming more rural - heading towards the Mercantile, with homes on large lots set back from the road.

About 10 minutes later, Dennis Williams said the two knocked on the front door of his home about a half mile from the store. "She seemed upset because she was lost," said Williams. 1/2 mile (per DW she was there about 10 minutes.) She was bare foot and had hit her knee.

For someone who had just spent 3 hours and lots of time between stops - the DW visit is an aberration - not only off the beaten path, but two left turns off the "main road" she was traveling - and with just a few minutes in between stops she has made (or attempted) more contacts between the Diner at 9:08 - Mercantile at 1035 than she appears to have all night.

Returns to closed Mercantile - Shell Station - taped driving by at 1035. Had she gone back the way she came, (from down town) she would have made it back to the freeway. - .1 mi from the Mercantile she drove past a fire station.

LE says they have reason to believe the van was on Zangle Rd - Beach at 11PM ( 3.7 mi 6 minutes per Google) IMO lots of things could have happened between 9:08 and 11PM.

Robb said in his Shep interview she doesn't have the best sense of direction. Was she looking for the Martin Way Shell on Martin Way in Oly? [24/7] If she was, from the Safeway, she was a little more than half way there - when instead she ended up at the Martin Way Diner next to the Shell on 4th - if this was her intended direction.

*all store hours posted were verified by telephone contact with the establishment.