WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

[Roselvr]

Agree, soul searching, visiting?



Didn't realize I typed that much lol
What I typed out was what was the most important. There is a lot more with maps that you really can't make out.



Here are a few threads on it -
Striking eye color on a John Doe: Seeking your insight! [NSFW]
Balkan connection
A few updates on: Dental, Ancestry, Eating Disorders
Possible clue to narrow down the isotope testing results
Isotope Map
Lyle's Physical Characteristics
Was Lyle really circumcised?
Thoughts On Lyle's Ethnicity--Métis?
lyle's unibrow - According to research conducted by 23andme on a sample of 60,000 participants, people of European ancestry are 96% likely to NOT have a unibrow. Information found here: link


View attachment 104851

Isotope map from Reddit

 

[Roselvr]

Last one I'm bumping Timeline analyses Isotope, hair and dental findings by bit of hope

Hi there,

I tried to establish a timeline of Lyle's movements using the summary Rosevr made of the isotope findings. For what is is worth....

Found: 17 September 2001, Amanda Park, Gray Habour County, Washington

Childhood: Not a resident of Amanda Park, Washington, most likely spent his childhood in:
1) Inisolated portions of some West states, including California, Arizona, NewMexico, Texas or Oklahoma; or

(2) In several Midwest States, including regions along the shores of the GreatLakes *notation, Canada included; and

(3) In portions of some South and North East states (Kentucky, Tennessee, NorthCarolina border, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey,New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and coastal portions of New Hampshire andMaine).

September 2000 – September 2001 traveling, multiple times (at least 5 travel movements) within the USA continent (12 months prior to his dead)

September 2000/Oktober 2000 (11 – 12 months prior to his dead) UID resided in a region ("Iso-Region2") with warmer climate which is consistent with California, SouthernArizona and New Mexico, Western Texas and Oklahoma, plus portionsof several Mid West states and North East states as well as Southern states(Maryland, Delaware, Virginia,West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, and extreme Northern Georgia.

March 2001 possibly travelled again 6 months before death to Iso-Region 2, although the residence at 6 months would have been abrief duration.

1 May 2001 (estimated 4,5 months prior to dead) UID resided in a region ("Iso-Region2") with warmer climate which is consistent with California, Southern Arizona and New Mexico, Western Texas and Oklahoma, plus portions of severalMid West states and North East states as well as Southern states (Maryland,Delaware, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, and extremeNorthern Georgia. We note that Washington, Oregon, and Nevada WERE NOT INCLUDED in the predictions for "Iso-Region 2". HUHH What does this mean in plain English?

1 July 2001 (estimated 2,5 months prior to dead) UID resided in a region ("Iso-Region2") with warmer climate which is consistent with California, SouthernArizona and New Mexico, Western Texas and Oklahoma, plus portions of severalMid West states and North East states as well as Southern states (Maryland, Delaware, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, and extremeNorthern Georgia.

We note that Washington, Oregon, and NevadaWERE NOT INCLUDED in the predictions for "Iso-Region 2". Huhhh...here I lost it...
July 2001/August 2001(somewhere in this period/estimated)resided/visited Amanda Park, Washington (isotope record 1-2 months before dead consistent with resident Amanda Park, Washington)

17 July 2001 (2 months prior to dead) / 17 August (1 month prior to dead), resided in a region ("Iso-Region1") consistent with portions of the Pacific Coast states, INCLUDING GrayHarbor County in Washington.

plus some Western States (extreme Southern Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and extreme Western Oklahoma), some Mid West States, and some North East States, as well as portions of Ohio, West Virginia, Virginia.

How can New Mexico, West Virginia and Virginia be in Iso-region 1 an at the same time in Iso-Region 2?

17 August/? September 2001 Moved or traveled just prior to death from "Iso-Region 1" to a region characterized by a warmer climate, as indicated by an increase in the measured oxygen isotope ratios of his hair beginning 1 month before death.

17 September 2001 (date found), traveling through/to Amanda Park, Washington, coming from a region with a warmer climate (could have come with bus, two busses at that time; a bus from Port Angeles (south) and a bus came up from Aberdeen(northbound))

 

[Brainy]

Unfortunately, the isotope results are too vague or too broad to conclude anything. It is disappointing as it does not help to point out to any particular direction, and I just find it utterly useless. What it basically tells is that Lyle traveled extensively, and could have been in states mentioned in the report. I think too much hope, thought and consideration was put into this report while it leads absolutely nowhere.

 

[Alleykins]

Unfortunately, the isotope results are too vague or too broad to conclude anything. It is disappointing as it does not help to point out to any particular direction, and I just find it utterly useless. What it basically tells is that Lyle traveled extensively, and could have been in states mentioned in the report. I think too much hope, thought and consideration was put into this report while it leads absolutely nowhere.

I agree. His isotopes are all over the place, making me wonder if he grew up in a migrant worker family or the military.

 

[Brainy]

I agree. His isotopes are all over the place, making me wonder if he grew up in a migrant worker family or the military.

Certainly possible. Or could have traveled due to the nature of his job or perhaps just a desire to travel and taste different things.

So, given the fact that the isotope results cover the majority of the US, I don't believe the results bear any significance. They may have some truth to them if he indeed traveled extensively, but they do not rule anything out. It's just a big hollow blur.

 

[carbuff]

Actually they do rule out some people, like the ones born and raised in small Southern towns. Traveling that much is not the norm.

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[Springrain]

Is it just me, or does the isotope test not really show much? It seems to me to basically say that he was from anywhere except the PNW

 

[carbuff]

Is it just me, or does the isotope test not really show much? It seems to me to basically say that he was from anywhere except the PNW

I suppose that's sort of true, but on the other hand it tells us that he was moving around a lot, which likely means he wasn't noticed to be missing for a while and if he was reported at all it might be from someplace a long way away and with an erroneous date.

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[Buttons]

Is it just me, or does the isotope test not really show much? It seems to me to basically say that he was from anywhere except the PNW

It tells us that Lyle was born and resided in the US. We also know that his lifestyle was transient in the last year or so of his life. It hasn't answered all of our questions, but I dare say it's been helpful in narrowing down and disproving certain perceptions and theories.

I can't believe we're in July of 2017 already...I wonder how long the wait to identify Lyle will be, or if it'll ever end. I remember feeling as though we were so much closer to doing so this time last year but now it feels like it's slipping away again. This case needs so much more exposure. It's well known in certain corners of the internet but you wouldn't stumble across it if you weren't actively looking. If we put ourselves in the position of Lyle's friends and family, assuming they know nothing, seeing his face on a poster or newspaper or on television might be the only way we'd ever find him.

 

[htiff]

It tells us that Lyle was born and resided in the US. We also know that his lifestyle was transient in the last year or so of his life. It hasn't answered all of our questions, but I dare say it's been helpful in narrowing down and disproving certain perceptions and theories.

I can't believe we're in July of 2017 already...I wonder how long the wait to identify Lyle will be, or if it'll ever end. I remember feeling as though we were so much closer to doing so this time last year but now it feels like it's slipping away again. This case needs so much more exposure. It's well known in certain corners of the internet but you wouldn't stumble across it if you weren't actively looking. If we put ourselves in the position of Lyle's friends and family, assuming they know nothing, seeing his face on a poster or newspaper or on television might be the only way we'd ever find him.

It may be that his lifestyle was transient for some time. One reason people can go off the grid, is that they were never really on the grid to begin with. Like Grateful Doe, whose mother didn't seem all that concerned about his missing status. I have been around a lot of runaways, and they live nomadic lives. Surviving all kinds of ways. He looks as if he may have been part of that world.

 

[mrseeker]

It may be that his lifestyle was transient for some time. One reason people can go off the grid, is that they were never really on the grid to begin with. Like Grateful Doe, whose mother didn't seem all that concerned about his missing status. I have been around a lot of runaways, and they live nomadic lives. Surviving all kinds of ways. He looks as if he may have been part of that world.

But he had dental work most likely as a child and teen. He was very clean, and his only possessions at the end was toothpaste and brush recently purchased. I don't think he was off the grid very long. I have thought a traveling carnival perhaps, and others have suggested he had older parents who recently passed away. I think if anyone alive misses him, they are not plugged into the net. A simple search with missing and man in it almost always comes up with him, so I doubt he has anyone looking for him, or he has ever been put in a missing person database.

 

[Buttons]

It may be that his lifestyle was transient for some time. One reason people can go off the grid, is that they were never really on the grid to begin with. Like Grateful Doe, whose mother didn't seem all that concerned about his missing status. I have been around a lot of runaways, and they live nomadic lives. Surviving all kinds of ways. He looks as if he may have been part of that world.

It's possible but I've always wondered if the transience was indicative of being in the military (the lack of fingerprints on any database disproves this, I suppose) or simply because he was soul searching. He may have even been looking for a job or a place to belong, which could explain why he took such good care of himself. It was estimated that his hair had been trimmed around a month before he died. Perhaps he never did find his place and felt that he never would. Perhaps he felt like a failure and didn't want anyone to know that he was struggling. This is more likely if he truly did come from a wealthy background, what with keeping up appearances and such. I don't know...I'm rambling now. I'm sure this has all been said before.

 

[htiff]

But he had dental work most likely as a child and teen. He was very clean, and his only possessions at the end was toothpaste and brush recently purchased. I don't think he was off the grid very long. I have thought a traveling carnival perhaps, and others have suggested he had older parents who recently passed away. I think if anyone alive misses him, they are not plugged into the net. A simple search with missing and man in it almost always comes up with him, so I doubt he has anyone looking for him, or he has ever been put in a missing person database.

Lots of runaways start out with care. Could have been there was abuse in his home. Or he got caught up in something. He was about 30 when he killed himself. And this was almost 20 years ago, now. So he would have been part of a generation where being gay might not have been accepted--especially if he came from a part of the country that at that time was not open to this. Maybe his home, though financially secure, was hostile to who he was.

Those are all just "for instances".

He's clean. But that's what you would be if you made your living selling yourself. It's really possible he was "kept" and then got too old for the person who had been taking care of his needs.

This is a guy who chose a bucolic location to die in, yet it was the end of summer and his skin showed no sign of having been exposed to sun. As in, he didn't work or even play outdoors.

My experience is more first hand. I knew kids who left good homes, for all kinds of reasons, and they went from patronage to patronage, home to home. Hotel to hotel. It may be that Lyle just got tired.

And it's impossible to tell from his death, but there may have been mental health issues. Bi-polar conditions were not as commonly diagnosed in those years, as they are now. And many who have these conditions also have OCD. And they can be very bright. And when calm, they can be very caring and thoughtful, as well.

I have been following this disappearance for almost 11 years now, and this case has gotten a lot of publicity over the last decade. So if someone were missing this man, I think they would have seen the picture at some point.

 

[Brainy]

But he had dental work most likely as a child and teen. He was very clean, and his only possessions at the end was toothpaste and brush recently purchased. I don't think he was off the grid very long. I have thought a traveling carnival perhaps, and others have suggested he had older parents who recently passed away. I think if anyone alive misses him, they are not plugged into the net. A simple search with missing and man in it almost always comes up with him, so I doubt he has anyone looking for him, or he has ever been put in a missing person database.

He either didn't have any family or had no relationship with his family. I am inclined to believe that no one reported him missing. I do believe he was traveling for some time before his death, but I don't think he had been a transient for a long time. His lifestyle, grooming habita, etc. point out that he had resources at one time and must have come from a background who have helped/provided for him.

I think it's possible that someone out there misses him/ thinks of him but hasn't considered looking into missing persons/dead database. They could have just thought he left and started life elsewhere and chose not to re-establish any contact with them. If this person was curious and tried doing a web search with his actual name, we know that nothing would turn up as we know that he left his identity undisclosed.

Let's say an old classmate got curious about his whereabouts and started digging. There is a little chance that the person would look for him in dead or missing persons. After a while, people have blurred memory of someone. Why would a classmate go looking for him in such lengths if they hadn't seen or heard from each other for years? There are many ambiguous faces from high school I remember. Some have names; some don't.

If he had left his family or had chosen to go away and cut his relationships with them, then it is not that unusual that he wasn't reported missing. There are in fact cases when a family doesn't report their family member missing for many years after the fact due to various circumstances.


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[Brainy]

It's possible but I've always wondered if the transience was indicative of being in the military (the lack of fingerprints on any database disproves this, I suppose) or simply because he was soul searching. He may have even been looking for a job or a place to belong, which could explain why he took such good care of himself. It was estimated that his hair had been trimmed around a month before he died. Perhaps he never did find his place and felt that he never would. Perhaps he felt like a failure and didn't want anyone to know that he was struggling. This is more likely if he truly did come from a wealthy background, what with keeping up appearances and such. I don't know...I'm rambling now. I'm sure this has all been said before.

A large percentage of suicide victims have some sort of mental health issue.... diagnosable, non-diagnosable...

I don’t think Lyle got up and left one day because he was just tired. He could have interpreted his state as “tired” but there surely must have been underlying issues causing his mental and emotional fatigue. It is difficult to understand the tremendous amount of daily effort it takes for people with depression, bipolar, etc… to survive every day, breathe in and out and just be normal. That’s a soul-wrenching type of fatigue that you loathe to be wrapped in.

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[htiff]

He either didn't have any family or had no relationship with his family. I am inclined to believe that no one reported him missing. I do believe he was traveling for some time before his death, but I don't think he had been a transient for a long time. His lifestyle, grooming habita, etc. point out that he had resources at one time and must have come from a background who have helped/provided for him.

I think it's possible that someone out there misses him/ thinks of him but hasn't considered looking into missing persons/dead database. They could have just thought he left and started life elsewhere and chose not to re-establish any contact with them. If this person was curious and tried doing a web search with his actual name, we know that nothing would turn up as we know that he left his identity undisclosed.

Let's say an old classmate got curious about his whereabouts and started digging. There is a little chance that the person would look for him in dead or missing persons. After a while, people have blurred memory of someone. Why would a classmate go looking for him in such lengths if they hadn't seen or heard from each other for years? There are many ambiguous faces from high school I remember. Some have names; some don't.

If he had left his family or had chosen to go away and cut his relationships with them, then it is not that unusual that he wasn't reported missing. There are in fact cases when a family doesn't report their family member missing for many years after the fact due to various circumstances.


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Plenty of poor and transient people have very good grooming habits. He may have been so concerned about cleanliness when he found a room for the night, and could afford one, because he wasn't always in a good position to be clean.

 

[htiff]

A large percentage of suicide victims have some sort of mental health issues.... diagnosable, non-diagnosable...


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I think he was probably living out of hotel rooms, selling himself to survive. He has that hotel/motel address in Idaho memorized. Who memorizes a motel address? That particular motel was frequented a lot by truckers. It was at an interstate intersection of sorts. It would have been an easy place to make a living, for awhile. Then when management catches on to what you are doing, you move on.

Back in 2001, social media and the internet were essentially in their infancy. So he may have had other transient friends, who had no way of keeping up with him. And may have been so distracted by their own issues, that they might not have seen any pictures of him on-line. People didn't live on-line then, like they do now.

Also, if you were prostituting with this guy, and you'd gotten your life together, you might not want to announce your relationship to him. And his tricks are certainly not going to acknowledge knowing him.

 

[Buttons]

A large percentage of suicide victims have some sort of mental health issue.... diagnosable, non-diagnosable...

I don’t think Lyle got up and left one day because he was just tired. He could have interpreted his state as “tired” but there surely must have been underlying issues causing his mental and emotional fatigue. It is difficult to understand the tremendous amount of daily effort it takes for people with depression, bipolar, etc… to survive every day, breathe in and out and just be normal. That’s a soul-wrenching type of fatigue that you loathe to be wrapped in.

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Did you mean to quote me? I agree that there was more than likely mental health conditions present, whether they were diagnosed or not. If I had to guess based solely on what we know, I would say depression and possibly OCD.

As for the theory that Lyle was a sex worker...I'm not sure. It's not a theory I personally adhere to but I can't say for certain that he wasn't. As is the case with most (all, actually) theories concerning Lyle, all we have are our suppositions and gut feelings.

 

[htiff]

Did you mean to quote me? I agree that there was more than likely mental health conditions present, whether they were diagnosed or not. If I had to guess based solely on what we know, I would say depression and possibly OCD.

As for the theory that Lyle was a sex worker...I'm not sure. It's not a theory I personally adhere to but I can't say for certain that he wasn't. As is the case with most (all, actually) theories concerning Lyle, all we have are our suppositions and gut feelings.

You've got a guy who chooses to die in a motel. He has the address of another, similar motel memorized. He has very few belongings--basically just what he can carry (if he came with a back-pack). It's the end of summer, yet he has no tan--sleeping during most of the day, coming out mostly at night-perhaps. He may have had someone who kept him for awhile. This happens for many young men out on the street. But maybe he got too old, and was no longer desirable. Maybe he had issues that were more than someone could deal with.

By "tired" I mean, tired of living from moment to moment, never knowing if he would have a roof over his head that night.

 

[Buttons]

You've got a guy who chooses to die in a motel. He has the address of another, similar motel memorized. He has very few belongings--basically just what he can carry (if he came with a back-pack). It's the end of summer, yet he has no tan--sleeping during most of the day, coming out mostly at night-perhaps. He may have had someone who kept him for awhile. This happens for many young men out on the street. But maybe he got too old, and was no longer desirable. Maybe he had issues that were more than someone could deal with.

By "tired" I mean, tired of living from moment to moment, never knowing if he would have a roof over his head that night.

I see. It's an interesting theory, and tragic beyond description if true.