WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

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Just a thought, but would/could a hanging break an adam's apple?
Strangulation can definitely break the Hyoid bone located above the adam's apple, but from things I am reading it would take significant direct force to break one's adam's apple. Was the belt was low enough to exert that much force on the adam's apple? It seemed higher on the neck and rather tucked in around the jaw (which would be the point of this type of hanging scenario).
 
My limited research suggests English is definitely is not a common second language in Croatia.

The Slavic dialects are more difficult to lose unless people are raised in an American English speaking family or were raised here from an early age, imo. I just do not see 2 war torn soldiers from Croatia being American English speaking gents so quickly with faded accents. Didn't happen, imo.

I agree that if a Croatian speaker didn't learn English from a young age then they would likely have a strong accent. As I mentioned earlier, I was in Croatia a few weeks ago. Many young people speak excellent English (at least where we were, in a touristy city) as they learn it early in school. Fewer of the older people speak English without a strong accent, if they speak English at all. Back in the early 1990's, well I'm not so sure that they were taught English to the same extent.

Not quite as relevant, but when we were in Slovenia we had a server who had an "interesting" English accent. We were trying to figure out if he was from Australia or South Africa. We asked him where he was from and he said, well from here in Ljubljana of course. We asked him how he got his English accent and he said he had no clue and it wasn't as if he hung around with Aussies more than other English speaking folks. But, we definitely had thought that English was his native tongue.
 
I've created a profile for LS:


  • Likely age range of 20-25 years old, but might be as old as 35 and quite possibly as young as late teens.
  • Kept a well-groomed appearance - clean clothes, neatly trimmed hair, clean shaven, well-kept fingernails.
  • Well organized, meticulous, and intelligent.
  • Was not employed as a manual laborer (construction, transportation, installation, repairs), most likely worked indoors (office, bank, store, medical office).
  • His family was moderately well off, with extensive dental work.
  • Polite and well-mannered in behavior, might have kept to himself.
  • Might have been on little to no terms with his family.
  • May have suffered from depression or potentially a mental illness.
  • Dressed in known brand names, but not names associated with luxury.
 
I've created a profile for LS:


  • Likely age range of 20-25 years old, but might be as old as 35 and quite possibly as young as late teens.
  • Kept a well-groomed appearance - clean clothes, neatly trimmed hair, clean shaven, well-kept fingernails.
  • Well organized, meticulous, and intelligent.
  • Was not employed as a manual laborer (construction, transportation, installation, repairs), most likely worked indoors (office, bank, store, medical office).
  • His family was moderately well off, with extensive dental work.
  • Polite and well-mannered in behavior, might have kept to himself.
  • Might have been on little to no terms with his family.
  • May have suffered from depression or potentially a mental illness.
  • Dressed in known brand names, but not names associated with luxury.

It could also be helpful to mention that he was very thin, possibly as a result of an eating disorder.


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It's great to see so much activity on this thread!

I haven't heard back from any authorities on whether Ilija Dukic is or isn't... yet.

The wheels grind slowly, however Lyle's case manager has taken the info for comparison as per roselvr (and thanks very much, too.)

Just to throw this in for discussion, who thinks that the name Lyle Stevik, (spelled deliberately distinctly differently from the actual name of the character in the book, 'You Must Remember This') was used deliberately by Lyle so that, despite him dying without id there would be a future search for his identity and somehow somewhere, someone that he wanted to know of his demise would somehow receive the message?

Given that the character Lyle Stevick spends his happiest moments staring at a noose he's suicidally prepared earlier, may I inquire as to who thinks that this is just a coincidence?

I am waning on the side of this being a deliberate act on Lyle's part with a full knowledge of the book, the character and the future effect that this mystery would have on the denizens of the electronic internet forum, which has lead to its perpetuation. I think he left out the 'c' so as there would be no confusion.

As for the crisp banknote, he really could have collected it anywhere earlier in his travels at any point in the past.

I also wonder if the catalytic effect upon his decision to actually follow through with his suicidal ideation wasn't so much the effects of 9/11 and the recent announcements of security crackdowns, particularly on identity proofs and suspect that it perhaps had more to do with the loss of finances, this being perhaps a theft from his room of a large sum of cash that he was using to finance himself?

I also believe that the scratches on his knuckles are from part of a bolt lock on an outhouse which he was struggling to open a short time before and that he accidentally caught his hand on the screws when moving the body of Brock Stone whose details can be found here.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-River-WhtMale-334UMON-28-40-Sep-01-*GRAPHIC*

This uid also was found with travel and hotel paraphernalia in his possessions indicating time spent traveling and staying in hotels as we know Lyle may have done also. These two men appear to be of a similar age and Bret Stone wore very expensive glasses indicating being perhaps the financier of their travels?

I honestly feel there's a connection between them due to the numerous similarities in their circumstances and the proximity of their places of death and the very close time frame.

I think Stone's death was also a contributing factor in Lyle's ultimate decision.

Any thoughts please?

Can't believe how fast this thread moves. There is no way I can keep up right now.
According to the email you last got they were contacting the LE/ME. I'm clueless what type of records they have for Ilija; so we may never know unless you get a follow up or I can find out. I would think it's safe to say they are not a match if Lyle's NamUs profile stays online; but if a DNA sample is needed from Ilija's relatives; we have no clue how long it would take to process. Those following the Grateful Dead Fan know it's almost 5 months for Jason Callahan's DNA. Ilija would not go on the rule out list as he is not from the US
 
The angle of the postmortem photo is different from the photo taken of the young Ilija; Lyle (I believe) is lying on his back & this very much affects our final view. Add time, a broken nose...I'm still convinced these are the same person.

The conversation about accents is interesting though. I know we don't know Lyle's exact age, but do we know the date the Croatia photo was actually taken?
 
The angle of the postmortem photo is different from the photo taken of the young Ilija; Lyle (I believe) is lying on his back & this very much affects our final view. Add time, a broken nose...I'm still convinced these are the same person.

The conversation about accents is interesting though. I know we don't know Lyle's exact age, but do we know the date the Croatia photo was actually taken?
Being in the supine position has zero effect on his ears being flat against his head, his chin being wider and with a pronounced cleft, his eyebrows being thicker and across, his nostrils being uneven, and everything else I pointed out. Age cannot account for those things either. A man's face doesn't go from oval to square with age or weight. (It can go less square with bone reduction/shaving surgery like Caitlyn Jenner had done.) A man doesn't lose his adam's apple if he lays down as it is a fixed and rigid piece. What part did we confuse by him being flat on the table and the angle of the photo?
 
The UK missing James Moodie http://www.missingpeople.org.uk/help-us-find/james-moodie
looks very much like Lyle. There is only one picture available of James and I could not find any physical description.
From Lyle post-mortem photos I could not figure out if he ever had the left ear pierced like James.

I can't say that I am seeing the similarity, but I am admittedly terrible at this! Thanks for putting someone else forward that we can consider.

(Looking at me response, I realize that it could be interpreted as if someone has to put an idea forward to a particular group of WSers...and that is definitely NOT what I meant! I meant that it was wonderful that people have so many ideas.)
 
I apologise if this sounds insensitive but are we still waiting for a response from VD-G? Or has she not been contacted? If it's the latter, I'm happy to send her a message if no-one else has.

I would love to hear from MD - she's one of three people who could possibly move this case forward (alongside BW and GB, respectively). I'm not sure what the delay is but VD-G could provide more 'background' to this case and should definitely be contacted.

As much as I advocate privacy, this is not a criminal case so contacting people on a "can you help me..." basis shouldn't be a problem. They can only say NO.
 
I apologise if this sounds insensitive but are we still waiting for a response from VD-G? Or has she not been contacted? If it's the latter, I'm happy to send her a message if no-one else has.

I would love to hear from MD - she's one of three people who could possibly move this case forward (alongside BW and GB, respectively). I'm not sure what the delay is but VD-G could provide more 'background' to this case and should definitely be contacted.

As much as I advocate privacy, this is not a criminal case so contacting people on a "can you help me..." basis shouldn't be a problem. They can only say NO.

I have a couple of paragraphs typed out so far. I haven't been able to get the rest done because of my late shifts at the moment.
 
This is what I have at the moment:

Hi [name of daughter], I'm a member of the forum that you linked to and frequent poster to the Lyle Stevik board. We find your post on here about Lyle to be of much interest, ever since the case was given a new life with the recent release of the case documents to the internet. We are also interested in what your mother knows about Lyle, if you wish to discuss anything with us. We feel that both of you could fill in some (possible) gaps, answer some questions that have come up, or clear up any misconceptions should there be any. If you two are not interested, that is fine with us. But if you are, feel free to post on the FB group Can You Identify Lyle Stevik? or Lyle's forum on Websleuths.
 
This is what I have at the moment:

Hi [name of daughter], I'm a member of the forum that you linked to and frequent poster to the Lyle Stevik board. We find your post on here about Lyle to be of much interest, ever since the case was given a new life with the recent release of the case documents to the internet. We are also interested in what your mother knows about Lyle, if you wish to discuss anything with us. We feel that both of you could fill in some (possible) gaps, answer some questions that have come up, or clear up any misconceptions should there be any. If you two are not interested, that is fine with us. But if you are, feel free to post on the FB group Can You Identify Lyle Stevik? or Lyle's forum on Websleuths.

I like it - but maybe something less formal? Perhaps..

"[Name], hello my name is [x], sorry to bother you... I just saw your Facebook post about the ghost story in the Lake Quinault Inn. You mentioned a guy who committed suicide in 2001 - your mom was the maid who found him. We are trying to find out who he is. Please help us! He was never identified. A lot of people care about him and we need your help! Who was he? We talk about him here: Register and join us! We would love to hear from you [name]!"
 
I like it - but maybe something less formal? Perhaps..

"[Name], hello my name is [x], sorry to bother you... I just saw your Facebook post about the ghost story in the Lake Quinault Inn. You mentioned a guy who committed suicide in 2001 - your mom was the maid who found him. We are trying to find out who he is. Please help us! He was never identified. A lot of people care about him and we need your help! Who was he? We talk about him here: Register and join us! We would love to hear from you [name]!"

Thanks, that sounds really good :)
 
I like the casual approach, too. We don't want her or her mother to feel like they are under any pressure here. :) We just want additional input on Lyle's stay prior to his death from people who can help him now. I believe they would like to find out his identity maybe even more than we would. We didn't have a chance to get to know Lyle at all and it might have changed our perspective if so. At least, it would have changed the way I viewed finding out his story. I think I would have almost felt obligated in some weird way.
 
Agreed. They are both well-written; I like the formal approach in that it is open-ended(as in, she can do what she wants without pressure, obligation, or guilt) and offers her an "out" if she's not interested - but, the casual tone is more welcoming, IMO. More conversational and friendly.
 
We aren't supposed to be sleuthing or contacting people who aren't named as suspects in a crime. There's no crime here, there are no suspects.
 
We aren't supposed to be sleuthing or contacting people who aren't named as suspects in a crime. There's no crime here, there are no suspects.

If someone could please correct me here: so far as I'm aware, there has been no positive evidence to suggest anything other than a voluntary suicide by hanging, right?
 
If someone could please correct me here: so far as I'm aware, there has been no positive evidence to suggest anything other than a voluntary suicide by hanging, right?
You are correct. There is no problem talking to people about this case especially when they are discussing it on the internet in another forum. The suicide case is closed. There was no crime according to LE. LE has no ongoing investigation.
 
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