Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

[Leila]

Good to know! Let's educate these kids, teach them to read. Then we have a shot at deprogramming them. Once they learn how bad their former lifestyle was, give them therapy.

I agree, and hope their education will continue in the foster care environment that they're placed in. I hope too that these children will be exposed to cultural activities, like museums, historical sites, and other wholesome activities. Let them acquire some knowledge of the outside world and know they have choices.

Edited to add..........I think the younger children will adapt far easier than the teenagers, and especially those teens that are already mothers. Being a teenager is already a difficult time, making the transition from childhood to adulthood, but these teens have a lot of additional problems to overcome.

 

[LinasK]

I would bet reading is the one thing they are taught in the cult so that they can read The Book. I hope they learn to play, to learn they do have choices, and to know it is OK to have feelings and to love. I hope they learn what the world is like outside of their compound and that they want to be part of it. I hope they learn there are good people who truly care about them.

Well, I did read that Warren Jeffs had outlawed crayons, so I'm guessing that their knowledge of "The Book" is memorizing from oral recitation. I sure hope they learn to laugh and express emotions and the girls giving birth scream out in pain, or get epidurals!

 

[Ca-Sun]

Well, I did read that Warren Jeffs had outlawed crayons, so I'm guessing that their knowledge of "The Book" is memorizing from oral recitation. I sure hope they learn to laugh and express emotions and the girls giving birth scream out in pain, or get epidurals!

The very thought of those young girls giving birth without the benefit of any painkillers and being reprimanded during labor if they let out a scream brings tears to my eyes. They don't even have a doctor if something should go wrong. Didn't at least one of the girls taken from the compound give birth this week? They must have taken her to the hospital - I hope she was allowed to ask for and receive an epidural for the pain. I didn't know that crayons were not allowed. Crayons of all things!

 

[Mygirlsadie]

If she even knew anything about pain meds.. I feel so bad for these kids. They have no idea what reality is. Crayons are a staple in a childs life. This is America come on! I would like one of the studly manly men give birth with no pain meds and then be reprimanded if he got too loud. Only a stupid man could make up such a stupid rule like that. I did give birth with NO pain meds when I was 18 years old. I didn't scream but I threw up and I moaned and groaned and I wanted to die. It was pure hell and I hated every second of it.

The very thought of those young girls giving birth without the benefit of any painkillers and being reprimanded during labor if they let out a scream brings tears to my eyes. They don't even have a doctor if something should go wrong. Didn't at least one of the girls taken from the compound give birth this week? They must have taken her to the hospital - I hope she was allowed to ask for and receive an epidural for the pain. I didn't know that crayons were not allowed. Crayons of all things!

 

[LinasK]

If she even knew anything about pain meds.. I feel so bad for these kids. They have no idea what reality is. Crayons are a staple in a childs life. This is America come on! I would like one of the studly manly men give birth with no pain meds and then be reprimanded if he got too loud. Only a stupid man could make up such a stupid rule like that. I did give birth with NO pain meds when I was 18 years old. I didn't scream but I threw up and I moaned and groaned and I wanted to die. It was pure hell and I hated every second of it.

I was induced with Pitocin and the pain was so bad I was in tears. I can't imagine doing it without an epidural. My only regret was that it caused me to shake badly afterward and I was so scared I didn't want to hold my daughter for about 15 min. 'till the shaking stopped.

 

[Mygirlsadie]

I was induced with Pitocin too Linas.. no pain meds no nothing...I had c-sections with my 2 sons and I can say for me having a C-section was a piece of cake! I got an epidural with my c sections and I was like wooow now this is what i'm talking about lol...

I was induced with Pitocin and the pain was so bad I was in tears. I can't imagine doing it without an epidural. My only regret was that it caused me to shake badly afterward and I was so scared I didn't want to hold my daughter for about 15 min. 'till the shaking stopped.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Evening, all

A kind-hearted poster pm'd me and advised the vote & SS status (etc) of this cult. I'm shocked! (Tku v m: so sweet of you; have not been able to read every post :blowkiss: )

Ugh. This growing story is getting too much for me. I've been tears through utter confusion. How can the FLDS carbon-copy humans that are devoid of emotion, love and the *understanding* of natural bonding?!!! How can babies & children be forced to endure this horrific lifestyle???

Last night (it's gone noon, Wed where I am) we had a documentary on the food crisis in Africa / worldwide. It was a painful vision. Little, tiny, malnourished babies toddlers and kiddies running up to reporters (not running away) with desperate hope in their heart amid faint smiles of joy (that beat my heart up). Older children staying with them ... and (normal) parents close-by. Such desperate communities.

And I could *only* think to myself: "Oh dear GOD! Thank-you for at least giving these tragic people the gift of knowing real love in their harsh lifetime. The picture of one plate, empty, in a toddler's hands, offering his mother something that looked like A PEA... will never leave me. To see people in their [normal] family units - mom, dad and their starving flock, huddled together and ... waiting for ? Oh Lord.

Why on Earth am I so lucky? Despite my now selfishly perceived silly woes, I have more. I have car-keys, hot/cold water on tap, light bulbs ... to the Internet and even the immense choice to yawn leisurely and consider the OPTION of when to flop onto my private bed.

These things are closely budgeted, sure ... but we HAVE love and a normal-range living and, but for God, a tomorrow to repeat the gift of life.

For those hungry the world over, heck (sniffing a bit here - wow) they also have some kind of love that's real to them. What they hope for after the simplicity of love: a little more food that week on a shared tin disc for a plate. "Mother Nature's Famine" ... I'm finished Yes, the FLDS give food. But they steal the love out of babies before the cherished little soul even swallows for the first time. Man-made.

Oh.... my ... God. Which could be worse? Sorry ... this awful dichotomy has surely caught me big time.

 

[golfmom]

The sad reality is without state birth certificates that identify both the mother and father, without DNA testing there's no way to tell who's who. The testing absolutely needs to be done to identify parents and children.

Just curious, three women got up and testified that they'd do anything the state required for them to regain custody ... I hope those three were first in line to be tested.

Finally, I can't say I'm surprised about the men disappearing.

http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/598888.html

DNA testing under way

In Eldorado, men and women arrived a few at a time Tuesday in pickups and sport utility vehicles to have their mouths swabbed for testing. By midday, only about two dozen of the 175 under court order had shown up.

Their lawyers say many were reluctant to offer samples for testing they believe is invasive and unnecessary.

"We've told them to cooperate, but there are a lot of people who are reluctant," said Cynthia Martinez, a spokeswoman for the Legal Aid attorneys who represent dozens of mothers. "There's a perception there that the state will be using it to separate them" rather than reunite them with their children.

Susan Hays, an attorney for a toddler, said some fathers may have left the state, fearing that the tests are really designed to help prosecutors make criminal abuse cases.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Just curious, three women got up and testified that they'd do anything the state required for them to regain custody ... I hope those three were first in line to be tested. (Me too!)

Susan Hays, an attorney for a toddler, said some fathers may have left the state, fearing that the tests are really designed to help prosecutors make criminal abuse cases.

Thanks for this enlightening post, golfmom...

1. :waitasec: Translated: "We've committed crimes and now we're going to be discovered."

2. If true that the FLDS er, "men" don't believe in the Constitution, how is it they may suddenly and almost blatantly "pull on a 5th".

Hypocrites!

 

[pamlet]

A guy my husband knows who works for CPS in San Antonio told my hubby that they recieved 20 of the children...wouldn't elaborate further.

From this article .. 125 to San Antonio - but to multiple locations ..

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA042308.01A.polygamist.3bf8e82.html

 

[southcitymom]

Wow - it took me hours to catch up with all of these threads. This is a very interesting subject with so many nuances - for me at least.

I am not a fan of adults having sexual relations with children. However, if you are raised in a tradition (religious or cultural) that encourages/approves of such things, I believe it becomes normal to you.

I think it muddies the water to willy-nilly call these FLDS elders pedophiles - the misuse of that word is not helpful to us. I doubt Jeffers is a bonafide pedophile (a person who is primarily or exclusively sexually aroused by children/prepubescents). In fact, according to FBI stats, most child sexual molesters are not pedophiles. I think Jeffers and his crew falls into that category.

I do agree that many of these mothers and children probably needed and wanted "saving." I also believe that a fair few probably didn't. I am heartbroken at all the displacement of these children into foster care. I'd like to have faith in the foster care system, but I don't. I feel that decision could be even more traumatic than the traumas they have already endured.

The thought of a government agency storming a community (no matter how fringe) and dismantling it, chills me to the bone and always will.

 

[SewingDeb]

This is to Glow. If other men who impregnate underage girls are charged in Texas, why should the FDLS men be any different? Case in point:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA042208.02B.sex-assault.8914f069.html

A 44-year-old man remained jailed Monday in connection with the sexual assault of a 15-year-old girl.

Charged with sexual assault of a child and failure to identify himself, Juan Manuel Cepeda was in Bexar County Jail on Monday on a combined $23,200 bond.
and

Hours after giving birth, the teen told authorities that Cepeda was the father of the child, according to an arrest warrant affidavit.

The teen told police that Cepeda, a "longtime family friend and church member," was the only person with whom she had had sexual contact, according to the document.

 

[golfmom]

SCM, I believe that you're mistaken about Warren Jeffs not being a pedophile. I'm not saying that makes or doesn't make all male FLDS members pedophiles, but I believe that Warren Jeffs is in fact one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs
Sex crime allegations and FBI's Most Wanted

In July 2004, Warren Jeffs' nephew, Brent Jeffs, filed a lawsuit against him alleging that in the late 1980s his uncle sodomized him in the Salt Lake Valley compound then owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS). Brent Jeffs said he was five or six years old at the time, and that Warren Jeffs' brothers, also named in the lawsuit, watched and participated in the abuse. Two of Warren Jeffs' other nephews also made similar abuse claims against him. One of the alleged victims, Clayne Jeffs, committed suicide with a firearm after accusing Warren Jeffs of sexually assaulting him as a child.[23]

 

[golfmom]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy225.html

Lawsuit's Accusations

The lawsuit filed by Brent Jeffs accused his uncle, Warren Jeffs, and two other men, Warren's brothers Blaine and Leslie, of molesting him repeatedly more than a decade ago in the basement of a Sunday school the FLDS ran in Salt Lake City. The Sunday school, known as the Alta Academy, has since closed.

"On repeated occasions, defendant prophet Warren would enter the basement room where the children were located, find (Brent) and instruct him to come to a nearby lavatory," the suit alleges.

"While in the lavatory, defendant prophet, and/or defendant Blaine and/or defendant Leslie confronted (Brent) and instruction him to remove his clothes."

The suit claims that after Brent was undressed, the defendants told him it was "God's will" that he submit to one or all three of the men.

"Defendant prophet Warren then told (Brent) that these sodomizing activities were a way for (Brent) to 'become a man,' " the suit alleges. "The defendant prophet Warren admonished (Brent) that it was God's will that he not tell anyone - particularly his parents - about said activities."

Brent, now 21, was 5 and 6 years old when he claims the serial molestations took place. His attorneys said in the suit that he "decided to come forward with this information after his brother, Clayne, who lived in the same FLDS community, committed suicide."
Stepping Forward

 

[SewingDeb]

It's a shame all these people believe Warren Jeffs should be worshipped and obeyed. He's really not that different from David Karesh.

 

[southcitymom]

SCM, I believe that you're mistaken about Warren Jeffs not being a pedophile. I'm not saying that makes or doesn't make all male FLDS members pedophiles, but I believe that Warren Jeffs is in fact one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs
Sex crime allegations and FBI's Most Wanted

In July 2004, Warren Jeffs' nephew, Brent Jeffs, filed a lawsuit against him alleging that in the late 1980s his uncle sodomized him in the Salt Lake Valley compound then owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS). Brent Jeffs said he was five or six years old at the time, and that Warren Jeffs' brothers, also named in the lawsuit, watched and participated in the abuse. Two of Warren Jeffs' other nephews also made similar abuse claims against him. One of the alleged victims, Clayne Jeffs, committed suicide with a firearm after accusing Warren Jeffs of sexually assaulting him as a child.[23]

You might be right, golfmom. This is obviously a man who has no problems sexually abusing children. But is that because he is a pedophile or is that because he is indoctrinating them into the ways of his religion from an early age. I see it more as a power and control thing wrapped up in his warped worldview. I could be wrong - that's just my perception of this group.

I get the feeling that he might rape and molest without hesitation any person he wished - male, female, adult, child - because he perceives that as his right and duty. I guess I just see it as a more complex (and perhaps even more dangerous) mindset than a garden-variety pedophile.

 

[cheko1]

I watched the bus taking off with the kids to SA. I seen the little ones waving good bye at the cameras. It made me wonder how many times have these little ones ever been off the ranch? Probably never!!! I think they are probably very excited. They can finally be kids not robots!!! They can talk / laugh / smile / play / all the things kids are supposed to do.

With all the kids living in such quarters at the ranch. They don't know who is the real Mom. They've been deprived of so much. Can you imagine the kids being able to watch cartoons / Disney movies & all the things they've been so deprived of?

I sincerely doubt many of them would miss the Moms unless they get tired at bedtime. Since they have 1 woman to take care of them she can only expand herself so far. Seems to me all the kids would he highly neglected.

 

[SewingDeb]

SouthCityMom,

I think you are right and that's all the more reason for the government to (finally!) step in.

If Warren Jeffs were truly a man of God, think how different these people's lives would be.

 

[SuziQ]

Check out the lady at the end. Now that's real emotion! That's true sorrow, true anguish. You couldn't hide that level of pain if you wanted to. And, that pain was caused by the same group who now "cries" on their porches, wanting us to believe they are the real victims. It's sick and so very, very tragic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1cTk2cJQac&NR=1

I had watched that video before and didn't make the connection you did. You are so correct. That's the best example yet proving how phony the FLDS moms we've seen are. I keep thinking of how I would be if my kids were taken away. I would be inconsolable. Flat out down on the floor in hysterics. It would destroy me. I would probably have to hospitalized and you couldn't get me to take that DNA test fast enough.

 

[golfmom]

You might be right, golfmom. This is obviously a man who has no problems sexually abusing children. But is that because he is a pedophile or is that because he is indoctrinating them into the ways of his religion from an early age. I see it more as a power and control thing wrapped up in his warped worldview. I could be wrong - that's just my perception of this group.

I get the feeling that he might rape and molest without hesitation any person he wished - male, female, adult, child - because he perceives that as his right and duty. I guess I just see it as a more complex (and perhaps even more dangerous) mindset than a garden-variety pedophile.

I think pedophilia, like rape is about power and control. Jeffs is one sick puppy.