Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

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They didn't verify the fake wrongful allegation made by this one caller, and they did invade their homestead and property. Taking their most valued property, their very own children. As far as I know, there's never been made mention or known of violent abuse or neglect against these peaceful dwelling inhabitants.

When asked on the stand at the custody hearing, whether CPS could proove that any child was seriously hurt, or even death had occured, the cps worker said YES. They can verify that this happens, and they have proove of it.
 
As far as I know, there's never been made mention or known of violent abuse or neglect against these peaceful dwelling inhabitants.

Water boarding babies now in a religious cult. It's so obvious this is falloinious (sp?)

I believe we as Americans have a sense that the Law will protect us on our own property against all invaders. This military tactic was un-called for in a domestic situation that could have been handled without all the shock and trauma. That we as parents are innocent and have the best interests of our children at heart. Now I know that's not the case everytime, many are abused, sadly.

These children I've seen, women and men look entirely healthy, happy and prospering. I want the Government to get to the bottom of any child or young teen sexual abuse and resolve it. Thanks everyone for your comments, very interesting.

Flowerchild, I would be very upset and disappointed even if this happened to a muslim family. There's not balance in this barbaric approach.
The women who have escaped have reported the abuse. If you read through the threads, there are lots of links.

Felonious. Committing a felony.

There was no military at all. It was Child Protective Services, with police support.

There are now threads to discuss CPS as well as religion. Let's use them, now that the mods have given us a forum.:clap:

I also want all of the sexual abuse of children that has gone on in the FLDS prosecuted. That is what this whole case is about.
 
Waterboarding has been verified! That it does go on in the FLDS!

As far as verifying the call, when they got in there they found SEVERAL sarahs. All underage pregnant teens.

I don't understand how you can feel that what went on here was ok!!!!

I'm not as knowledgeable about this case as most of you regular posters are, if you don't mind and have time could you give me a short version or link so I can read the verifiable evidence. Thank you in advance.

Something I need to get straight though with you, please don't associate words in the nature of "I'm okay with what went on there as being from me". I am not okay with any and all of the adults involved.

When asked on the stand at the custody hearing, whether CPS could proove that any child was seriously hurt, or even death had occured, the cps worker said YES. They can verify that this happens, and they have proove of it.

Unfortunately, cps will lie. I witnessed it twice in two different hearings in two different counties where I live in a court of law. Not saying that is the case here, just saying. Have they provided the proof, or are we going to have to wait til trials and so forth begin? I'm just not up to speed as most of you on all the details. Water boarding allegations are very serious, and whoever made the accusations sure better hope they haven't lied. Thank you for your posts.
 
I'm not as knowledgeable about this case as most of you regular posters are, if you don't mind and have time could you give me a short version or link so I can read the verifiable evidence. Thank you in advance.

Something I need to get straight though with you, please don't associate words in the nature of "I'm okay with what went on there as being from me". I am not okay with any and all of the adults involved.



Unfortunately, cps will lie. I witnessed it twice in two different hearings in two different counties where I live in a court of law. Not saying that is the case here, just saying. Have they provided the proof, or are we going to have to wait til trials and so forth begin? I'm just not up to speed as most of you on all the details. Water boarding allegations are very serious, and whoever made the accusations sure better hope they haven't lied. Thank you for your posts.


CPS lie on the stand?? That is purgery! Will look for link and info on the waterboarding.
 
The women who have escaped have reported the abuse. If you read through the threads, there are lots of links.

Felonious. Committing a felony.

There was no military at all. It was Child Protective Services, with police support.

There are now threads to discuss CPS as well as religion. Let's use them, now that the mods have given us a forum.:clap:

I also want all of the sexual abuse of children that has gone on in the FLDS prosecuted. That is what this whole case is about.

What in your mind is an acceptable age for a girl to get married and begin having babies? How did you come to this opinion?
 
Can you identify any households in which a child was caused serious injury or death? the attorney says.
Yes, the CPS supervisor says.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/17/live-from-the-courthouse-updates-ON-FLDS-CUSTODY/


I have wondered for a few days now if they could exhume any of the graves of little ones or anyones grave and determine cause of death. I do believe that there has to have been some deaths from the very bizarre way of disciplining the young.

While I believe in our free society and all of the wonderful benefits we all have, I do not believe any society has the right to rule as the FDLS does.
 
They didn't verify the fake wrongful allegation made by this one caller, and they did invade their homestead and property. Taking their most valued property, their very own children. As far as I know, there's never been made mention or known of violent abuse or neglect against these peaceful dwelling inhabitants.

I don't believe the water boarding incident for one second. Not one. Isn't it awfully ironic, coincidental that not long ago or far in time, water boarding was a big national news issue being discussed and all of a sudden Ga Zaaam! Water boarding babies now in a religious cult. It's so obvious this is falloinious (sp?) sorry guys for that. I've never heard of water boarding, though I know it's not a completely new term or act. But come on, more likely than not the evidence would support neither did these sheltered, non watching tv, mothers hadn't never heard of it either.

I believe we as Americans have a sense that the Law will protect us on our own property against all invaders. This military tactic was un-called for in a domestic situation that could have been handled without all the shock and trauma. That we as parents are innocent and have the best interests of our children at heart. Now I know that's not the case everytime, many are abused, sadly.

These children I've seen, women and men look entirely healthy, happy and prospering. I want the Government to get to the bottom of any child or young teen sexual abuse and resolve it. Thanks everyone for your comments, very interesting.

Flowerchild, I would be very upset and disappointed even if this happened to a muslim family. There's not balance in this barbaric approach.
Umm, Mothers do not have to WATCH waterboarding on TV or even KNOW the NAME of the act TO DO IT! And it was taught to them BY THE MEN, who condoned it's application to "quiet" the babies. And YES, it was going on - has been going on. It's called in the FLDS World "Training" - they "train their kids and the wives - THEIR WORDS, NOT MINE. Interview - FLDS Man " nothing was more trained against" was what they said when asked about sexual abuse at YFZ. It sounded like he was talking about show dogs, not human beings!

The MEN in charge watch TV, have iPods, jobs outside the ranch, have cell phones and use computers. The MEN are the PRIESTHOOD of the FLDS - they control everything. It has been said by witnesses that the MEN have and do KILL HANDICAPPED/preemie BABIES at birth - is THAT part of religious freedom? Is that not "barbaric'? Is THAT protected? Is it Ok if it happens "over there" on private property, behind a fence on a property with a church building on it?

My Opinion
 
CPS lie on the stand?? That is purgery! Will look for link and info on the waterboarding.

Believe it, concerning me and two sets of false allegations concerning my husbands daughter whom we had custody of. The judge fined the mother 1,500 dollars and held her in contempt, but he didn't jail her. Which I'm glad. I don't know if any reprecussions came out of these two hearings concerning cps. One agency from one county, one from another.

Our attorney did an outstanding job, or should I say they did such a lousy job lying anyone could see it. Our attorney pulled out previous court hearing transcripts they had previously testified under oath and they were busted. But as a whole, I don't believe they go around lying, but I believe they will to cover their behinds if they've done something wrong or have a motive too.
 
Unfortunately, cps will lie. I witnessed it twice in two different hearings in two different counties where I live in a court of law. Not saying that is the case here, just saying. Have they provided the proof, or are we going to have to wait til trials and so forth begin? I'm just not up to speed as most of you on all the details. Water boarding allegations are very serious, and whoever made the accusations sure better hope they haven't lied. Thank you for your posts.

She said it right there on national TV, and there's a transcript, so if Merrill Jessop want's to sue for slander, he can. But since truth is an absolute defense against a slander charge, I'm guessing he won't be suing her for it.

"GRACE: Carolyn, when you say your children suffered violence, what exactly do you mean?

JESSOP: Well, you know, it was from multiple levels. Merrill did a form of water torture on babies, and it was a method he called breaking them, where he would take the baby and spank them until they were screaming out of control, and then he would hold the baby face up under a tap of running water for a minute, maybe as long as a minute, and then he`d take a baby out, spank them again and then the process would just repeat. He`d do this until the baby was just so exhausted, it couldn`t fight anymore. He called it breaking them. And what the method was behind it was to instill an extreme level of fear for their father, but do it at an age that they wouldn`t remember the process that was used to instill that fear.

GRACE: What would the wives do as he did this to their babies?

JESSOP: You know, he did it to my oldest son, and I still can`t talk about it without crying. I witnessed it. I was terrified of him. I was still a -- I mean, I was in my -- I had barely turned 20. I was pregnant, with morning sickness and incredibly ill with my second baby. And I didn`t dare to say anything. I was afraid he would be worse and hurt my baby worse. But after that one episode, he never did it in front of me again. But I`m aware, you know, since then, from things that people have told me, that he did it with several of my babies. He just never did it in front of me again."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/17/ng.01.html
 
Umm, Mothers do not have to WATCH waterboarding on TV or even KNOW the NAME of the act TO DO IT! And it was taught to them BY THE MEN, who condoned it's application to "quiet" the babies. And YES, it was going on - has been going on. It's called in the FLDS World "Training" - they "train their kids and the wives - THEIR WORDS, NOT MINE. Interview - FLDS Man " nothing was more trained against" was what they said when asked about sexual abuse at YFZ. It sounded like he was talking about show dogs, not human beings!

The MEN in charge watch TV, have iPods, jobs outside the ranch, have cell phones and use computers. The MEN are the PRIESTHOOD of the FLDS - they control everything. It has been said by witnesses that the MEN have and do KILL HANDICAPPED/preemie BABIES at birth - is THAT part of religious freedom? Is that not "barbaric'? Is THAT protected? Is it Ok if it happens "over there" on private property, behind a fence on a property with a church building on it?

My Opinion

We should always choose "Life" for it's a precious thing :blowkiss:
 
She said it right there on national TV, and there's a transcript, so if Merrill Jessop want's to sue for slander, he can. But since truth is an absolute defense against a slander charge, I'm guessing he won't be suing her for it.

"GRACE: Carolyn, when you say your children suffered violence, what exactly do you mean?

JESSOP: Well, you know, it was from multiple levels. Merrill did a form of water torture on babies, and it was a method he called breaking them, where he would take the baby and spank them until they were screaming out of control, and then he would hold the baby face up under a tap of running water for a minute, maybe as long as a minute, and then he`d take a baby out, spank them again and then the process would just repeat. He`d do this until the baby was just so exhausted, it couldn`t fight anymore. He called it breaking them. And what the method was behind it was to instill an extreme level of fear for their father, but do it at an age that they wouldn`t remember the process that was used to instill that fear.

GRACE: What would the wives do as he did this to their babies?

JESSOP: You know, he did it to my oldest son, and I still can`t talk about it without crying. I witnessed it. I was terrified of him. I was still a -- I mean, I was in my -- I had barely turned 20. I was pregnant, with morning sickness and incredibly ill with my second baby. And I didn`t dare to say anything. I was afraid he would be worse and hurt my baby worse. But after that one episode, he never did it in front of me again. But I`m aware, you know, since then, from things that people have told me, that he did it with several of my babies. He just never did it in front of me again."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/17/ng.01.html

Thank you! Been looking for the link. She also was on the today show, and described waterboarding techniques.
 
I am new to this site. I live in San Angelo. The FLDS situation is VERY real to me every day as more and more information is published. I was so horrified with the information that was being "put out there" by many bloggers in my local newspaper that I googled FLDS and found WebSleuth's. I knew that if I were to get valid information, I would have to do my own research and not depend on a few biased opinions inside my local paper's blog.

FlowerChild, I look forward to your posts because they reflect many of my own thoughts. Unfortunately, I have never been able to express my own thoughts as eloquently as you do.

I would like to THANK all of the regular posters here for the massive amount of information that you have provided along with the valuable links. I really appreciate your posts. Please don't give up on Texas authorities in their attempt to resolve this situation legally and in the best way possible for the future of the FLDS children. We are trying, but know it will be a long battle.
mykodiak - this is my first post, too. I've been sitting here trying to figure out how to thank this group for the great discussion and research they are doing. You summarized my thoughts perfectly! :clap: :woohoo:

Thanks to all of you; I'd been reading for several days and decided I had to register - this discussion is fantastic. :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
What in your mind is an acceptable age for a girl to get married and begin having babies? How did you come to this opinion?
I am not having this conversation again in the main thread. Please read the threads numbered 1 through 5. Suffice to say that the law in Texas forbids a minor child under the age of 16 from marrying, even with parental consent. CPS has discovered almost 50 underage girls locked in that compound who are pregnant or who have already given birth.
 
They didn't verify the fake wrongful allegation made by this one caller, and they did invade their homestead and property. Taking their most valued property, their very own children. As far as I know, there's never been made mention or known of violent abuse or neglect against these peaceful dwelling inhabitants.

I don't believe the water boarding incident for one second. Not one. Isn't it awfully ironic, coincidental that not long ago or far in time, water boarding was a big national news issue being discussed and all of a sudden Ga Zaaam! Water boarding babies now in a religious cult. It's so obvious this is falloinious (sp?) sorry guys for that. I've never heard of water boarding, though I know it's not a completely new term or act. But come on, more likely than not the evidence would support neither did these sheltered, non watching tv, mothers hadn't never heard of it either.

I believe we as Americans have a sense that the Law will protect us on our own property against all invaders. This military tactic was un-called for in a domestic situation that could have been handled without all the shock and trauma. That we as parents are innocent and have the best interests of our children at heart. Now I know that's not the case everytime, many are abused, sadly.

These children I've seen, women and men look entirely healthy, happy and prospering. I want the Government to get to the bottom of any child or young teen sexual abuse and resolve it. Thanks everyone for your comments, very interesting.

Flowerchild, I would be very upset and disappointed even if this happened to a muslim family. There's not balance in this barbaric approach.

The bolded part is what i reply to:

i believe blood atonement within the FLDS happens which is neither peaceful nor law abiding, IMO.
 
, our moderator for this forum, could we please close this long thread and start afresh?
 
mykodiak - this is my first post, too. I've been sitting here trying to figure out how to thank this group for the great discussion and research they are doing. You summarized my thoughts perfectly! :clap: :woohoo:

Thanks to all of you; I'd been reading for several days and decided I had to register - this discussion is fantastic. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Hi Jute and mykodiak! Welcome to WS! (I'm fairly new myself). It is a really great forum, and I agree, the research and discussion here are excellent.
 
Thank you! Been looking for the link. She also was on the today show, and described waterboarding techniques.

You're welcome! I'm still looking for the one where she (I think it was Carolyn) mentioned the word "smother," and when Nancy questioned her further she said this was done by some of the mothers (the ones responsible for keeping the children seen and not heard) would silence a crying baby by pinching its little nose/covering it's little mouth.

Disgusting! You'd expect kids who suffered that type of abuse to be missing a few brain cells from episodes of lack of oxygen. :mad:
 
What in your mind is an acceptable age for a girl to get married and begin having babies? How did you come to this opinion?
THE LAW SAYS 18! AS AN ADULT. It isn't our opinion, but the LAW! YOU MUST BE 18 OR have approval by a parent/guardian AND a JUDGE to be legally married. Kids - well THAT's kinda up to the woman isn't it? There is NO LAW one way or another about having children - or being married to have them or at what age. It IS illegal however, for a 13 year old GIRL to be having SEX - it happens, consensually, but that doesn't make it LEGAL. Again, not opinion...the law!

And Lets discuss "married" - by which I presume you mean married legally - in the eyes of the state. right? Well these little girls weren't married at all legally speaking...just SPIRITUALLY. That's because for a CHILD age 16 or 17 to get married legally her PARENTS must petition the court and a JUDGE must approve the marriage - and the FLDS sure wasn't gonna do THAT. So we have a pregnant 14 year old girl who is legally not old enough to consent to sex..and she obviously HAD SEX with SOMEONE. At that point does it really matter whether she is "old enough" to get married? It's a moot point. She is pregnant and too young to consent to sex, much less marriage.

And the Baby Daddy just happens to be age 57 and already spiritually married to 6 OTHER women and he has 55 children with them. Oh - 2 of the 6 wives are his 1st cousins and the pregnant girl is his STEPDAUGHTER with his #2 wife and ALSO his cousin. But hey, we should just let this be THEIR PRIVATE BUSINESS. We wouldn't want to disrupt the wholesome, pious, prayerful, innocence of that wonderful little family unit now would we. And wow, just THINK how wonderful and "sweet" and "clean" the country would be if we were all living the FLDS way....no sex except for procreation (with a "breeding chart" for each wife), no nudity...ever, even with one's spouse, no TV (except for religious videos), no music (except in Church), no toys (except for a trampoline), all home schooling with faith and morality and prayer built right in every day, but only to the 8th grade and ONLY reading the Bible and BOM. I think we should ALL try the FLDS way of life - heck, we might not even need to BE PARENTS then - what in the world are PARENTS needed for in such a controlled, clean, perfect world.....

Oh ...wait - didn't Germany TRY this whole "we'll just go off over here by ourselves...don't pay any attention to US, we're building a PURE perfect world, PURE perfect families, with PURE perfect children we'll raise in "our way" and hey "world" just leave us alone with our beliefs, OK" - thing (sans state sanctioned religion) in 1940 or so??

My Opinion
 

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