Was BR involved? #2

[questfortrue]

This case was always circumstantial – no smoking gun (direct evidence), no confession and no witnesses. Yet the GJ came up with likely the only charges which could be taken to court. And this included the realization there was no intruder. I’d love to be wrong in my conclusion about “the one theory” which will be presented at the end of the Case of. However, from what I know about how careful they must be in their presentation, in order not to face a lawsuit, it seems most likely the one theory will be that there was no intruder and the family was involved in her death.

It’s also my thought, again just a guess, that although BR testified at the GJ, I do not believe he confessed. Imo, he was well-grounded in how his confession would implicate his parents and that they could go to jail. I also don’t believe SS testified to anything which implicated the family. She wouldn’t commit perjury, but it’s difficult for me to believe she knew anything for sure. She would, however, have been able to furnish information about BR’s behavior post-crime. Her son DS was best friends with BR, and the R family lived with them for 5 months. BR’s third grade teacher also testified and would have been able to speak about BR’s behavior.

In addition there are family friends, notably FW and his wife. They initially protected the family, telling the police that it would be impossible for JR or PR to have ended JB’s life. But then I believe things shifted when the Rs went on national TV before giving the police an interview. Another flag for the Ws was that Patsy’s reaction to PW wanting to speak to her about JB and provide some information about her daughter strangely confirms that PR knew but didn’t want to hear this “something” from another. One must remember that JonBenét’s best friend was the Ws’ daughter. JB may have shared some detailed knowledge about male/female relations which were far beyond her years.

My takeaway is that the GJ heard evidence of BR’s behavior and spotted some large inconsistencies in his responses. They must have known he displayed signs outside the spectrum of normal for a 9/almost 10 year old. Based on that knowledge, I’m pretty sure the GJ placed him front and center of possible suspects for her death and could do no more than come back with child abuse charges against the parents.

I believe Kolar’s wish to call the GJ together to re-interview BR and to subpoena BR’s medical records was to give the BPD/DA enough to feel the case was solved and to be able to shut it down. The SoL had expired in 2004, so no charges of child abuse could be brought now. Since there’s no new evidence, the case resides in limbo land.

The latest coming out of the Dr. Phil promo camp was this: Ultimately, Dr. Phil hopes that the special will bring some sort of resolution for the Ramsey family.
“...I think there are going to be some things that come to life in this three-part series that we are doing that people have never heard before,” he explained. “I certainly think it’s going to be cathartic for the people involved and maybe it will trigger something that will cause somebody to remember something, remember seeing something, remember hearing something and I think we are going to move way down the road towards getting some resolution.”

 

[otg]

I don’t know if it’s been posted by anyone else yet, but there’s this from one of the Dr. Phil promos (http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/burke-ramsey-interrogation-tapes-110989):

Shortly after it was revealed that her brother, Burke Ramsey, has sat down with Dr. Phil to give his first interview since the murder 20 years ago, the TV psychologist has told In Touch that he has the never-before-seen interrogation tapes of the now 29-year-old!

“After the murder, Burke was interrogated three times. Once when he was 9, twice when he was 12 -- those tapes disappeared,” Dr. Phil exclusively tells In Touch. “For the first time in 20 years, we’re going to hear from the other person that was in the house the night [JonBenét was murdered]."

The tapes will be played during the three-part special, which begins Sept. 12. He tells In Touch, “It’s going to be very difficult to look away.”
​

I ask: How did he get his hands on these “never-before-seen interrogation tapes?” Were they given to Dr. Phil with Ramsey approval through their mutual lawyer? Are they now to be considered in public domain? Will the custodian of the record (whoever that is -- BPD, BDA) release a copy to the public? How about the other tapes of John and Patsy? Portions of them have been posted on Youtube. Why not release all of them so we can see what was “inaudible” to the transcriber? Maybe we can help them figure out what was said.

Also, the promo mentions that the Burke tapes he has are of the three “interrogations” -- one of which was “when he was 9.” Would this be the “interrogation” done by Dr. Suzanne Bernhard (Pinto) at the behest of DSS? This is the one which Kolar mentions so many red flags, and the one in which Burke mentioned the knife that hadn’t been disclosed publicly at the time.

Maybe it’s time investigators suck it up and release all this information instead of the constant drip, drip, drip of information that casts doubt on their ability to determine the difference between a hole in the ground and Alex Hunter. Maybe it’s time they release the complete unedited version of the 911 call instead of the one that Lin Wood altered and then released to the network news outlets with the conversation at the end cut off.

Of course, they won’t do this because they want the case to remain in cold-case limbo. If they declared it a closed case, the evidence would have to become public information. They have no reason to do that, and too many reasons to not. Instead they will continue to keep a poker face while telling the public it is a “continuing, open investigation.”

 

[InstantProof]

I don’t know if it’s been posted by anyone else yet, but there’s this from one of the Dr. Phil promos (http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/burke-ramsey-interrogation-tapes-110989):

Shortly after it was revealed that her brother, Burke Ramsey, has sat down with Dr. Phil to give his first interview since the murder 20 years ago, the TV psychologist has told In Touch that he has the never-before-seen interrogation tapes of the now 29-year-old!

“After the murder, Burke was interrogated three times. Once when he was 9, twice when he was 12 -- those tapes disappeared,” Dr. Phil exclusively tells In Touch. “For the first time in 20 years, we’re going to hear from the other person that was in the house the night [JonBenét was murdered]."

The tapes will be played during the three-part special, which begins Sept. 12. He tells In Touch, “It’s going to be very difficult to look away.”
​

I ask: How did he get his hands on these “never-before-seen interrogation tapes?” Were they given to Dr. Phil with Ramsey approval through their mutual lawyer? Are they now to be considered in public domain? Will the custodian of the record (whoever that is -- BPD, BDA) release a copy to the public? How about the other tapes of John and Patsy? Portions of them have been posted on Youtube. Why not release all of them so we can see what was “inaudible” to the transcriber? Maybe we can help them figure out what was said.

Also, the promo mentions that the Burke tapes he has are of the three “interrogations” -- one of which was “when he was 9.” Would this be the “interrogation” done by Dr. Suzanne Bernhard (Pinto) at the behest of DSS? This is the one which Kolar mentions so many red flags, and the one in which Burke mentioned the knife that hadn’t been disclosed publicly at the time.

Maybe it’s time investigators suck it up and release all this information instead of the constant drip, drip, drip of information that casts doubt on their ability to determine the difference between a hole in the ground and Alex Hunter. Maybe it’s time they release the complete unedited version of the 911 call instead of the one that Lin Wood altered and then released to the network news outlets with the conversation at the end cut off.

Of course, they won’t do this because they want the case to remain in cold-case limbo. If they declared it a closed case, the evidence would have to become public information. They have no reason to do that, and too many reasons to not. Instead they will continue to keep a poker face while telling the public it is a “continuing, open investigation.”

The special on ID also has the Burke interview tapes. So they must somehow be available now. I believe Burke has been sent to do the Dr. Phil interview to explain away some stuff in there. I don't think there's a smoking gun, but I think there will be enough for anyone paying attention to put the pieces together.

 

[UKGuy]

I don’t know if it’s been posted by anyone else yet, but there’s this from one of the Dr. Phil promos (http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/burke-ramsey-interrogation-tapes-110989):

Shortly after it was revealed that her brother, Burke Ramsey, has sat down with Dr. Phil to give his first interview since the murder 20 years ago, the TV psychologist has told In Touch that he has the never-before-seen interrogation tapes of the now 29-year-old!
...
​

otg,

I ask: How did he get his hands on these “never-before-seen interrogation tapes?

James Kolar and his contacts? Looks like we will have a feast of JonBenet case revelations. I'm going to save them up for viewing in one go!

.​

 

[otg]

The special on ID also has the Burke interview tapes. So they must somehow be available now. I believe Burke has been sent to do the Dr. Phil interview to explain away some stuff in there. I don't think there's a smoking gun, but I think there will be enough for anyone paying attention to put the pieces together.

I think you're right, IP. I can't imagine that they will be playing the entire video -- only selected excerpts, and selected by someone who has some sort of an agenda or point to make.

Maybe Tricia (as the owner and leader of the "forum of record") should consider a FOIA Request. Wouldn't it be great to have all these interview -- ahem... "interrogation" -- tapes available for our dissection. I say, if they have nothing to hide, release the tapes -- including the 911 tape in its entirety!

 

[UKGuy]

The special on ID also has the Burke interview tapes. So they must somehow be available now. I believe Burke has been sent to do the Dr. Phil interview to explain away some stuff in there. I don't think there's a smoking gun, but I think there will be enough for anyone paying attention to put the pieces together.

InstantProof,
It looks that way at present. ID does a BDI and Dr Phil does a Dr Freud on Burke Ramsey. Regardless of whatever theory they propose, for WS members that can differentiate the nuances between the RDI theories, it will be extremely interesting viewing.

Lets hope Tricia has budgeted for extra bandwidth since the forums are guaranteed to go into meltdown?

.

 

[questfortrue]

The special on ID also has the Burke interview tapes. So they must somehow be available now. I believe Burke has been sent to do the Dr. Phil interview to explain away some stuff in there. I don't think there's a smoking gun, but I think there will be enough for anyone paying attention to put the pieces together.

BPD cannot release evidence like tapes because the case is open. This means that the ID producers received a tape from BR's attorney with BR's approval.

Something to consider here. If anyone recalls the Walters' interview with JR last November and the cooperation JR gave news reporter/author PW on her recent book, both show JR and and his family in a favorable light, as victims of police (and FBI). If the ID show is providing a taped interview of BR’s and never before seen family photos and home videos, it means they have received the cooperation of the R family. I predict this program will be very-y-y heavy on the Intruder theory.

 

[otg]

BPD cannot release evidence like tapes because the case is open. This means that the ID producers received a tape from BR's attorney with BR's approval.

Exactly, quest. But since that person's lawyer is releasing parts of the tapes, might that not constitute it having already being put into the public domain? It seems like there might be some kind of loophole that allows release of the tape since the person in the video has already allowed selected parts to be shown. It's hardly fair to only present one side without making available the rest of the tape. (I know... Life's not fair. :sigh

(bbm)

Something to consider here. If anyone recalls the Walters' interview with JR last November and the cooperation JR gave news reporter/author PW on her recent book, both show JR and and his family in a favorable light, as victims of police (and FBI). If the ID show is providing a taped interview of BR’s and never before seen family photos and home videos, it means they have received the cooperation of the R family. I predict this program will be very-y-y heavy on the Intruder theory.

It also means that, like Ramsey on the Walters interview, someone is getting paid big bucks for any exclusive content.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

BPD cannot release evidence like tapes because the case is open. This means that the ID producers received a tape from BR's attorney with BR's approval.

Something to consider here. If anyone recalls the Walters' interview with JR last November and the cooperation JR gave news reporter/author PW on her recent book, both show JR and and his family in a favorable light, as victims of police (and FBI). If the ID show is providing a taped interview of BR’s and never before seen family photos and home videos, it means they have received the cooperation of the R family. I predict this program will be very-y-y heavy on the Intruder theory.

Yep, I think that miniseries was made as competition to the CBS series, The Case Of. It's airing a week before.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Okay I don't know if anyone else thought this was but Tom Forman, the producer of The Case Of, is NOT the same Tom Foreman who works for CNN and who has covered JonBenet's case before, His reporting has been on the IDI side so I was worried when I thought he was the producer...but he's not, so we're good LOL.

 

[Madeleine74]

I doubt the end result of anything Dr. Phil 'investigates' will lead to a RDI scenario. He's just not going to put his show and his $$$$$ in danger. Further, if he's making comments about there being any kind of resolution, he's lying because the only way the Ramsey camp would allow Burke to appear would be to continue the IDI story. This is going to be much ado about nothing, more promos and commercials than any real content IMO.

 

[otg]

Okay I don't know if anyone else thought this was but Tom Forman, the producer of The Case Of, is NOT the same Tom Foreman who works for CNN and who has covered JonBenet's case before, His reporting has been on the IDI side so I was worried when I thought he was the producer...but he's not, so we're good LOL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Forman_(producer)
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/person/tom-forman
http://relativitymedia.com/about/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1512799/
http://www.criticalcontent.com/ (click on "ABOUT," then "Tom Forman")
https://twitter.com/tomformanprod

 

[singularity]

Instead of quoting everyone mentioning the footage of Burke and other new evidence, it doesn't mean its Ramsey spin or BPD gave bits and pieces.

Someone may have gave them all the case files(easy in this day and age and I'm shocked a massive leak of evidence didn't happen years ago) and these shows all got access to it.

THis case may about to turn into a runaway train that no one, including BPD or the corrupt DAs can stop at this point.

Maybe the "chance arrow of history" Thomas talked about has already been launched and is just waiting for its imminent impact.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I actually have the latest In Touch referenced by otg with quotes from Dr. Phil and unsurprisingly, he claims the interview will be revelatory. I'm sure he isn't just saying that for ratings...
"'After the murder, Burke was interrogated three times. Once when he was 9, twice when he was 12 - those tapes disappeared,' Dr. Phil, 65, tells In Touch, adding that he has obtained the never-before-heard tapes and will play them for the world..." That was what first struck me too: these tapes "disappeared", yet Kolar watched them so it seems more like they just weren't publicly available. But if they did "disappear," will Phil explain where they came from? Because I'd love to know.
Another quote:
"'For the first time in 20 years, we're going to hear from the other person that was in the house the night [Jonbenet was murdered].' And it's going to be shocking. 'Some of the things that will come to light are astounding to me,' Dr. Phil promises. 'Burke is very compelling. It's going to be very difficult to look away.'"
And the blurb quotes Dr. Phil saying, "We are going to find out what Burke knows - what actually happened from the moment he woke up that morning."
My guess: Burke responds in true Ramsey fashion with, "I don't know nothing 'bout nothing! Who's 911 and why would I be on a call with them? I've never even heard of that fruit you're referencing...did you say it's pronounced PIN-appul?"


Some background on In Touch: they have been periodically running JBR stories over the past couple of months, all IDI rehash "exclusive" cover stories that just happen to quote Ollie Gray. In April it was Helgoth and an unnamed "accomplice;" in July they had a few covers (with Globe following suit) about Oliva after he was arrested on disturbing but unrelated charges, alleging he was an accomplice of Helgoth's along with, well, at least 6 other unknown pedophiles who managed to climb in the basement window without disturbing any cobwebs or debris in the window sill and kill JB that fateful night, according to that degraded DNA! They had another cover story (or cover blurb?) about Burke's interview a few weeks back that I have but can't find. I recall it mentions that he'll be putting out a plea to find The Killer, aka an intruder (not his parents).

The only other Burke-related media info I have comes from August 22nd's surprisingly sane People article called "Justice for Jonbenet?" which tackles some of the basic questions of the case in a q&a format (and references Kolar's book more than once).
"How was JonBenet's brother Burke involved in the investigation?
Just 9 years old when his sister was slain, Burke was asleep on the second floor of the Ramsey home through the whole ordeal, his parents insisted. Police questioned Burke the day JonBenet was found, and in January 1997, he was interviewed by a child psychologist. A year later, in an interview monitored by the Ramseys' attorney and a staffer from the DA's office, Burke also talked to a Broomfield police officer. In 2010 police again approached Burke, giving him a card with a number to call if he wanted to discuss the case - he never used it. While multiple websites and online forums have long debated Burke's involvement in his sister's death, he has never publicly talked about the case and has never been a suspect."
It also mentions the Dr. Phil appearance, quoting his stepmom: "'Burke is cut from the same cloth as his dad,' his stepmom, Jan, told People in 2012. 'He's quiet and not super-demonstrative.'"

 

[Madeleine74]

I actually have the latest In Touch referenced by otg with quotes from Dr. Phil and unsurprisingly, he claims the interview will be revelatory. I'm sure he isn't just saying that for ratings...

Everything uttered by Dr. Phil is to garner ratings -- that's the whole point of putting out these teasers. I've watched enough Dr. Phil shows to see how they do what they do. Nothing will be solved in this case; it will be a lot of 'so that was it?' by viewers.

There is no way BR will say anything that will implicate himself or either parent in what happened. He wouldn't be allowed to do this show otherwise. BR's been kept away and quiet for 20 years; that's not by accident. I bet a lawyer will be on hand.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The Dr. Phil interview is going to be extremely sympathetic towards the Ramseys.

However, I think there is a strong possibility the Case Of series will not be.

So Burke did talk to LE in 2011...Interesting.

 

[questfortrue]

The Dr. Phil interview is going to be extremely sympathetic towards the Ramseys.

However, I think there is a strong possibility the Case Of series will not be.

So Burke did talk to LE in 2011...Interesting.

I've not heard about a Burke interview with LE in 2011. Was this revealed by Dr. Phil or in the Case Of series promo? TIA

 

[Boodles]

If there were any "bombshell revelations," they would have leaked by now. This case is too sensational to believe that any new facts uncovered during tapings could have been kept under wraps. There's too much money to be made.

 

[singularity]

If there were any "bombshell revelations," they would have leaked by now. This case is too sensational to believe that any new facts uncovered during tapings could have been kept under wraps. There's too much money to be made.

Fair point but at the same time, with all this money to be made and info were to happen to leak, less people watch and that means less money.

They've already told us we'll hear new info. They;ve also said they've looked at 55k pages of case files. These aren't going to be your run of the mill, standard JBR docs we're used to seeing where it tells the basic story, says how the family was accused, and as it ends we get the IDI crapola.

As Bob Dylan said.....the times....they are a changin'......

 

[reintarnation]

Fair point but at the same time, with all this money to be made and info were to happen to leak, less people watch and that means less money.

They've already told us we'll hear new info. They;ve also said they've looked at 55k pages of case files. These aren't going to be your run of the mill, standard JBR docs we're used to seeing where it tells the basic story, says how the family was accused, and as it ends we get the IDI crapola.

As Bob Dylan said.....the times....they are a changin'......

So true! Still, I worry that 'new' or 'never-before-seen' evidence means information that has not been widely circulated but is known to those of us who have closely followed and researched the case over the years. That's just me trying to avoid a let down and not set my expectations too high, though. Regardless, the publicity these docs will generate can only be a good thing - the public interest will be reignited and people may be more motivated to learn the facts and press for LE/DA to do more.