Was BR involved? #2

[Tadpole12]

re: bed wetting


BR: I definitely remember
her and me wetting
the bed 2 to 3 times a week

 

[Tulessa]

I have went from thinking the Ramsey's were innocent, to straddling a fence that feels like a Lady on a man's bicycle. I'm just throwing my hands up. :gaah:

 

[Tulessa]

BR's reddish, glazed eyes and that weird smile make me think he's under the influence of something.

Or he's just freakin weird. JMO


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Thank you!

 

[Frigga]

Thank you so much for your response. I apologize for coming on and being so lazy not to look this all up myself but I know from experience that the people on the thread are usually knee deep in the details and it's often just easier to ask. Thank you again.

Anyone on here that has 'known' me for a time knows how big I am on watching body language and facial expressions. Again all I can say is when BR answers why he didn't draw JBR in that family picture it sent an absolute chill down my spine. This is not the reaction I would be looking for then or now from someone who's little sister was just found murdered in their own home.

I see children of my own friends and those kids are writing letters and drawing pictures of sunshine and happy times written to grandparents who have passed, I just can't quite grasp the affect this young man has. It's scary to me for sure.

It's so interesting to me that so many people label Burke as socially awkward or on the autism spectrum but nobody seems to wonder if he is a devious sociopath or psychopath.

Not all psychopaths go on to become serial killers.

Something is seriously wrong with Burke if he DID commit this murder and something is seriously wrong with him even if he didn't! IMHO either his mother or father or both are responsible for the murder or he is- there was no intruder.

Either way- something is not right with Burke and I mean NOT RIGHT.

I am not a huge fan of Dr Phil anymore- he's gone Hollywood... corporate, whatever... however you want to look at it but one thing I'll give him is he is no dummy- nor is he easily fooled. Oprah saw something in him that I still see- he is smart as a whip- natural smart, street smart, intuitive and he can read people... see through people and he is nobody's fool.

I'm so surprised at all the poo-pooing of the show... nothing to see here folks, same old same old, rehashing of old lies and BS. Wait. What?

Seriously, this one interview alone is manna from heaven as far as I'm concerned- that almost 30 year old MAN wouldn't even talk with the Boulder PD!

This is no longer about sheltering him from the media circus- 20 fricking years later- GMAB- because no family I know who are victims of an unsolved crime of their loved one would turn any chance at publicity away- especially this many years out. Victim families are usually DESPERATE for the attention NOT TO GO AWAY- they hope for the media never to forget them... They are typically desperate for updates whenever and wherever they can get them from the police who are still (hopefully) investigating their loved ones murder or disappearance. That is, at least, the ones who had no hand in the crime. This is not normal- the Ramsey's are not normal- Burke is not displaying one iota of normal behavior towards the loss of a baby sister- THEY ARE NOT VICTIMS. I do believe James Kohler. I believe the only true victim in that house is dead and maybe I should be thanking my lucky stars that she was taken out of that hell hole sooner rather than later. I believe wholeheartedly that JR was molesting his little girl and I believe his son was following in his deviant footsteps.

So, IMOO- Dr Phil is NO fool- so what if he gets ratings and makes money for his network he GOT the interview with Burke and John (the more John talks the more the blatant lies get told for us (or others) to see and put together). He HAS Burkes interview tapes with the investigative psychologist and WE get to see BURKE watch them too and then answer any of Dr Phil's questions on top of it! Boulder PD gets to see this too and I can only imagine what DP thinks- he makes it pretty evident (IMO)!

Like most of us here who have no problem believing any parent or child could be capable of doing the very things that went on in the house that night and from what I know of DP (I do have some insights) he knows damn well that the Ramsey's story of all that occurred leading up to, during and after the murder is complete and utter BS. You can't BS a BS'er and he's seen it all- that man may be a lot of things to all of us but one thing is certain for me- he does not suffer fools lightly- he sees right through this dog and pony show and he's doing his damndest to unmask it while staying neutral enough to not get himself or the network sued!

He has a legal mind and the network has a legal person going over each show with a fine tooth comb before it is ever signed off on to go to air. He's covered- while doing the public at large a service that might never have occurred had there NOT been money involved. I choose to see it as the gift that it is.

I'll tell you something else too- what I know of Robin is she's a smart cookie too- the yin to his yang and she has a mind of her own- she knows just as well as I do that Patsy's stories are full of more holes then Swiss cheese. She's a fierce and loyal mother and grandmother but on the right side of the law- like her husband. She was probably more instrumental in him doing this show then anybody. She gets it- I'm telling you.

I have so many things written down about the Day 1 interview but this post has gone on long enough. I'll post my thoughts and observations on the show later. Thanks to eveveryone who has posted- I've been obsessed with reading here and so impressed with all of the insights- even the ones I disagree with.

Justice for Jonbenet- it's all any of us here want really.

 

[andreww]

One theory I wondered about while listening to BR with DP. I am sure others have mentioned before.

Could BR and JBR snuck down and looked or opened the new presents that were supposed to be for the next day?
Could PR have caught them and maybe lost her temper?

They may have been under strict orders to not open or look at the presents for the following day and like most kids maybe curiousity got the best of them and they disobeyed PR.

I have to wonder if something simple like that caused PR to lose it. Especially if wine had been drunk over at the friends house , she was tired and cranky just wanted to get some sleep, She spent hours wrapping the gifts, etc. etc.

I have often wondered why that stack of gifts was there. John stated that he took all the presents to the airport that afternoon. The Ramsey's themselves said that they had delivered all but one of their local friends gifts. We know that Burke supposedly had a birthday present down there, but who were the rest for? If they were Christmas gifts, when were they planning on sending them?

 

[IBsleuthin]

One theory I wondered about while listening to BR with DP. I am sure others have mentioned before.

Could BR and JBR snuck down and looked or opened the new presents that were supposed to be for the next day?
Could PR have caught them and maybe lost her temper?

They may have been under strict orders to not open or look at the presents for the following day and like most kids maybe curiousity got the best of them and they disobeyed PR.

I have to wonder if something simple like that caused PR to lose it. Especially if wine had been drunk over at the friends house , she was tired and cranky just wanted to get some sleep, She spent hours wrapping the gifts, etc. etc.

Except for all intents and purposes this really looks like a crime of a sadist.

 

[AmyPond]

Who is Robin? (Sorry if that's a dumb question.)

 

[Tadpole12]

DP: Your dad had said he used the
flash light that night to put you to bed
and then you snuck downstairs to play...

BR: I had some toy that I wanted
to put together......


confirms he was alone in basement

 

[DatelineFan]

I guess I'm just a little surprised you have a lot of experience with kids on the autism spectrum. Because I don't have tons of experience...but even I have known some who just aren't necessarily very curious about what other people are doing or feeling. So to me, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for a child on the spectrum to not investigate the goings on that morning. And it wouldn't necessarily be sinister either. It's just the way their brains work.



In the first episode of Dr. Phil he did make a comment along the lines of "maybe I just felt safer" in my room....something like that. I took that as not really wanting to know what was happening. Ignorance is bliss, so to speak.

I do wonder if he heard something earlier - his parents talking? Yelling? Figuring out what to do with JB? And has just suppressed it as a "survival" method or something.



I feel like such a broken record here....but no two children are the same. And IF a child has developmental delays or is on the autism spectrum...it can be vastly different than a neurotypical child. (We don't know if this is the case with Burke, obviously. But it's certainly possible.) We really can't say that ALL children would react the same. Definitely not all children with other issues.

And I don't think being from the U.S. or the U.K. is going to make much of a difference.

I agree with you, completely. In my experience working with children on the spectrum, they often are in their own bubble, and not very interested in what others are doing and feeling.

I will add, as I said before, that whether he's on the spectrum or not, he can't really be compared to other people, in the 20 years since the murder. Living with the media in your business all the time is crazy!

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[TrialWatcher]

I'm sitting here watching Dr. Phil.

Is it just me, or is BR and his perpetual smile really creepy?

Not just you. I watched the interview on Dr Phil and found his emotional detachment and general demeanour strange. I'm trying to be fair to him (and consider all possibilities) so I shall wait until I see everything he has to say.

 

[Tadpole12]

Robin is Dr Phil's wife

 

[dgfred]

A flashlight is not needed to put to bed... but it is needed to sneak out of bed without turning on lights.

 

[BOESP]

I agree. Especially when she must have received dozens of dolls that were in boxes.

What concerns me is that J.R. said this. How do we know if P.R. ever said this?

I am having difficulty believing anything that J.R. says. Maybe it is just me.

Iiirc, Patsy discussed this in the Ramsey book, "Death of Innocence."

 

[PositiveLight]

So, now onto the bruises on her body.

Has anywhere anyone can find, found anything that determined the AGES of the bruises on her?

Looking at a photo as opposed to live examination just chaps my hide and is supremely difficult to fully look at correctly. To me, in my humble armchair opinion on my old computer those bruises on the tops of her shoulders have a red hue to them/red brown and they look older than something inflicted at the time.

Also, I understand that the garrote has been investigated, examined and discussed, whole blogs written about it. But today for the first time I was able to see the actual photo of this around her neck.

That's no playtime toy there that got out of hand. There is INTENT there and petechiae. With a finish that there was no coming back from. That was deeply imbedded in her neck.

The whole thing just makes you sit back in your chair and say????????


Also, on one of the DP fish hooks was this, "Later Burke will talk about hitting his sister in the head with a golf club." (paraphrasing) What ever came of that?

That is what I keep saying about the garrote. There were fingernail marks around it where she tried in vain to rip it off. Poor baby!

 

[Frigga]

Who is Robin? (Sorry if that's a dumb question.)

Robin McGraw- Dr Phils wife.

 

[DatelineFan]

re: bed wetting


BR: I definitely remember
her and me wetting
the bed 2 to 3 times a week

Did he say that? On DP? That's a major red flag that there were some very shaky things going on in the home!

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[andreww]

It could be Patsy lied in her book on this point. If she did kill JBR she might have let dad tell him. And of course both could be true. JR told him and then PR told him. I tend to think JR told BR to do this interview. BR seems childlike and has never properly separated from parental control. Its just my impression. BR could make a fortune writing a book telling how his mother did it if its about money. He should have never done this interview. It certainly doesn't help him.

I think John realizes that he isn't going to be around forever, so he's grooming Burke to carry on telling the family lies.If you give them the interview, demand the questions in advance, the public will believe whatever comes out of your mouth. John has spent the better part of his life covering this up, he doesn't want Burke caving the day after he dies.

 

[DatelineFan]

Who is Robin? (Sorry if that's a dumb question.)

DP wife.

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[andreww]

That is what I keep saying about the garrote. There were fingernail marks around it where she tried in vain to rip it off. Poor baby!

I don't think thats true. JBR was all but dead when she was garrotted.

 

[Frigga]

I agree with you, completely. In my experience working with children on the spectrum, they often are in their own bubble, and not very interested in what others are doing and feeling.

I will add, as I said before, that whether he's on the spectrum or not, he can't really be compared to other people, in the 20 years since the murder. Living with the media in your business all the time is crazy!

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Pardon me but more crazy then what happened in his own house on Christmas? Not the bizarre and brutal murder that would (or should) forever change the trajectory of his life? The media?

I have a real problem with the idea that the media and what the media did was the crazy part.