Was Burke involved?

[otg]

They could simply be old prints. I haven't read Kolar's book yet so I don't know all these details about Burke. Of course I really think the RN was written before the murder and that would eliminate the Ramseys. Unless you believe that JBR's murder was premeditated. Some people still believe that.

...and the "practice note" that was left behind in the notepad where they were both written? Do you think that it was also written before the murder? Both JR and PR said the notepad belonged to them -- as well as the Sharpie that was used to write the note.

 

[bettybaby00]

Hi, you know it's always possible JB just got up in the middle of the night and ate pineapple. As to whether PR would've heard her down there I wouldn't necessarily think so. I grew up in a 3 story home and my bedroom was on the 3rd floor and I could never here anything that was going on down in the kitchen. And the Ramsey home was a heck of lot bigger than ours.

Lol me too, I wouldn't either. I sleep like the dead. But if something happened in my home and police are called, I would tell them I sleep like the dead. I wouldn't insist that I could hear my kids rummaging around in the kitchen during the night *shrugs*

 

[ItWasAnIntruder]

...and the "practice note" that was left behind in the notepad where they were both written? Do you think that it was also written before the murder? Both JR and PR said the notepad belonged to them -- as well as the Sharpie that was used to write the note.

Good point. I do think the perp at first was going to address the both of them like in the practice note, but then realized it would make more sense to address just JR alone. This is because the note has JR doing all these things, getting the money together, etc. One could make the argument that if the Ramseys wrote the RN why leave the practice note behind when they could've just flushed it down the toilet.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

...and the "practice note" that was left behind in the notepad where they were both written? Do you think that it was also written before the murder? Both JR and PR said the notepad belonged to them -- as well as the Sharpie that was used to write the note.

And this is what makes it more ridiculous to me. The Ramsey's are trying to get away with the brutal murder of their child and so they wrote the ransom note along with a practice note and don't destroy/ remove/ burn the pad, toss the pen??

To me that points more toward the intruder. Someone who wanted to make it look like them.

 

[ItWasAnIntruder]

And this is what makes it more ridiculous to me. The Ramsey's are trying to get away with the brutal murder of their child and so they wrote the ransom note along with a practice note and don't destroy/ remove/ burn the pad, toss the pen??

To me that points more toward the intruder. Someone who wanted to make it look like them.

Good point. Also, an intruder wouldn't care if he left practice notes , etc because as far as he's concerned the cops have no idea who he is.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Good point. Also, an intruder wouldn't care if he left practice notes , etc because as far as he's concerned the cops have no idea who he is.

One of my big issues is that when parents do murder their kids they don't leave the body in the house. They remove it. They hide it. Intruders leave bodies.

I just gotta get past these things before I add weight to and Ramsey theory. Especially a BR theory.

 

[BOESP]

And this is what makes it more ridiculous to me. The Ramsey's are trying to get away with the brutal murder of their child and so they wrote the ransom note along with a practice note and don't destroy/ remove/ burn the pad, toss the pen??

To me that points more toward the intruder. Someone who wanted to make it look like them.

Patsy admitted to writing the so-called practice note. She said she was working on the wording for an invitation to an event she was planning. However, iirc, this practice note had been removed from the tablet and only a ghost image remained on underlying layers. I'm sure someone will correct me if I've disremembered. :blushing:

 

[BOESP]

Lol me too, I wouldn't either. I sleep like the dead. But if something happened in my home and police are called, I would tell them I sleep like the dead. I wouldn't insist that I could hear my kids rummaging around in the kitchen during the night *shrugs*

John Ramsey stated emphatically that JonBenet would never go downstairs during the night alone for any reason. In fact, he said she would scream bloody murder if someone she didn't know tried to force her to do so. I suppose Burke could have gone with her but I don't see that as likely being as it was late at night, they had a super-busy day, and they had to get up early.

Patsy stated that she always left JonBenet's door cracked a little so she could hear her if she needed anything during the night. Her statement doesn't jive with the idea that she was sound asleep and didn't (or couldn't) hear a thing.

 

[BOESP]

One of my big issues is that when parents do murder their kids they don't leave the body in the house. They remove it. They hide it. Intruders leave bodies.

I just gotta get past these things before I add weight to and Ramsey theory. Especially a BR theory.

BBM. Respectfully, that statement is not true. Aside from that, the body was hidden. I can't see Patsy letting JonBenet be exposed to the elements and animals. Not to mention neither she nor John would likely risk leaving their house in the middle of the night -- how would they explain that if the neighbors saw them?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

One of my big issues is that when parents do murder their kids they don't leave the body in the house. They remove it. They hide it. Intruders leave bodies.

I just gotta get past these things before I add weight to and Ramsey theory. Especially a BR theory.

There are cases posted all the time on WS where parents kill their child, and the body is left in the home. In these cases, the parents claim it's an accident, but the autopsy shows it's not. These parents are usually young and uneducated. Go to the Crimes Against Children forum to see these types of cases.

Also, it's extremely unusual for a child to be killed in their home by an intruder while the rest of the family sleeps. Almost every child taken out of their bedroom by an intruder...is taken out of the house too. Most intruders do not leave the victim's body in the victim's house.

 

[otg]

One of my big issues is that when parents do murder their kids they don't leave the body in the house. They remove it. They hide it. Intruders leave bodies.

I just gotta get past these things before I add weight to and Ramsey theory. Especially a BR theory.

Really? Where did you find this information? <modsnip>. Is this your idea of proof that it was an intruder?

 

[otg]

There are cases posted all the time on WS where parents kill their child, and the body is left in the home. In these cases, the parents claim it's an accident, but the autopsy shows it's not. These parents are usually young and uneducated. Go to the Crimes Against Children forum to see these types of cases.

Also, it's extremely unusual for a child to be killed in their home by an intruder while the rest of the family sleeps. Almost every child taken out of their bedroom by an intruder...is taken out of the house too. Most intruders do not leave the victim's body in the victim's house.

:ditto:
In August of 1997, CASKU (FBI’s Child Abduction and Serial Killer Unit) told the BPD that of the more than 1,700 murdered children that they had studied since the 1960s, there was only one case in which the victim was a female under the age of 12, who had been murdered by strangulation and left in her own home, with sexual assault and a ransom note present. That one case was JonBenet Ramsey.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

:ditto:
In August of 1997, CASKU (FBI’s Child Abduction and Serial Killer Unit) told the BPD that of the more than 1,700 murdered children that they had studied since the 1960s, there was only one case in which the victim was a female under the age of 12, who had been murdered by strangulation and left in her own home, with sexual assault and a ransom note present. That one case was JonBenet Ramsey.

Even if they just looked up cases of children murdered in their homes by an intruder while the rest of the family slept (not even considering any RN)...it is extremely rare. I can think of two cases where it happened: Stephanie Crowe and there was a little girl back in the 60s and 70s whose name I can't recall. Maybe there are a few more, but it is so unusual.

 

[Chelly]

Really? Where did you find this information? <modsnip> Is this your idea of proof that it was an intruder?

Agreed and share your frustration. <modsnip>

 

[bettybaby00]

John Ramsey stated emphatically that JonBenet would never go downstairs during the night alone for any reason. In fact, he said she would scream bloody murder if someone she didn't know tried to force her to do so. I suppose Burke could have gone with her but I don't see that as likely being as it was late at night, they had a super-busy day, and they had to get up early.

Patsy stated that she always left JonBenet's door cracked a little so she could hear her if she needed anything during the night. Her statement doesn't jive with the idea that she was sound asleep and didn't (or couldn't) hear a thing.

Speaking of screaming bloody murder...I was struck dumb by Kolar's remarks about Lou Smit's assertion that a stun gun was used to render JB unconscious, thereby proving the parents innocence. Not only did the manufacturer state emphatically that the marks on JB's back were not consistent with the marks produced by their product--also concluded by the ME--but then Kolar goes on to add that a stun gun does not render a person unconscious, it "stuns" them momentarily, and the person receiving such a shock screams in pain.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Let me clarify.

Watching a crime show recently I heard LE officer refer to the fact that most times people are murdered and left in their homes that is often not a family member. I will do searching to find out the source and cite it.

Maybe I over reached in that comment. I apologize for that but I will look for good research and either back it up or retract later.

I have many reasons for not including Burke in my circle if suspects. I have things that stick out to me as problems following the RDI theories.

As far as I know this forum is for discussion of the case. That is what I am doing. Going back and forth it helpful as it clarifies some things and shakes out some fact from rumors and speculation.
I would hope that no matter what our views we can all discuss it reasonably.

This case is so full of gut feeling because there is so much missing that leads to definitive guilt, at least for me.

Discussing is a way to learn and feel our way through. I hope that even if someone does not agree with the mass feeling on the case, we can all be welcome to discuss it respectfully.

 

[ItWasAnIntruder]

There are cases posted all the time on WS where parents kill their child, and the body is left in the home. In these cases, the parents claim it's an accident, but the autopsy shows it's not. These parents are usually young and uneducated. Go to the Crimes Against Children forum to see these types of cases.

Also, it's extremely unusual for a child to be killed in their home by an intruder while the rest of the family sleeps. Almost every child taken out of their bedroom by an intruder...is taken out of the house too. Most intruders do not leave the victim's body in the victim's house.

Unusual but not extremely so, it happens. The case of Timothy Spencer comes to mind. He raped and killed a teenage girl in her bedroom that was separated from her parents by only a wall. And the parents never heard a thing. There are others.

 

[ItWasAnIntruder]

:ditto:
In August of 1997, CASKU (FBI’s Child Abduction and Serial Killer Unit) told the BPD that of the more than 1,700 murdered children that they had studied since the 1960s, there was only one case in which the victim was a female under the age of 12, who had been murdered by strangulation and left in her own home, with sexual assault and a ransom note present. That one case was JonBenet Ramsey.

I fail to see how this statistic proves it was a Ramsey or an Intruder. It would be totally unique either way. I know of no case where a parent killed their child and then created a fake ransom note on their own stationary no less. That FBI stat gets us no closer to a solution.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Whatever happened to JonBenet....is probably extremely unusual. A predator killing a child, or a parent killing a child is not that unusual, but when you look at the specifics, it becomes so.

 

[ItWasAnIntruder]

Whatever happened to JonBenet....is probably extremely unusual. A predator killing a child, or a parent killing a child is not that unusual, but when you look at the specifics, it becomes so.

I agree. This case is an outlier. Something bizarre went down that night.