Wayne Millard Murder Trial - Dellen Millard Charged With Murder - #1

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In watching the video again(part way) When DM says his mum called the police he switches to 911. I feel to take it more away from crime and to an emergency. Also DM doesn't mention anything threatening to him by the officers happening that night. video @ about 1:30seconds on the investigators counter# but around 7:20 on the slide bar.
 
I'm thinking it will be really bad form for a Poll Supervisor to be constantly scanning this site while managing a poll during Thursday's provincial election ... soooo - I'm already anticipating snuggling in my jammies with my laptop with a cold one (not a rye, not a whiskey, not a Jack, not a mini wine bottle or cooler - just a good 'ole cold can of beer) devouring everyone's comments and the tweets into the early hours of Friday. I don't post often but I talk at/with/in agreement and sometimes against many of you posting here. Your insights are appreciated and often give me something else to consider. Thanks for posting the tweets and for the delightful commentary on such a range of topics ... I did particularly like the whiskey/rye sidebar inserted into the discussion earlier this afternoon.
 
MsSherlock said:
This is the first time I've heard WM had oxycodone for pain relief (Johnson said other officers at the scene told her: AC tweets) Wonder if we're going to find out if he had a prescription for them? I had previously heard of his other meds- but not this one, which now has me thinking that DM may have actually drugged him. LE knew that for a reason, and IMHO, it was to explain the presence of oxy in his system if they were to do a blood test. I think enough Oxy with booze could have put him out like a light, maybe even comatose and they'd never be questioned by LE. MOO
Click to expand...
I was wondering about the significance of this mention yesterday as well. The coroner said he'd been told WM was taking oxycontin, while today's testimony said oxycodone. I wonder if the autopsy and due diligence would have included comparing whatever drugs may have been found in WM's system with whatever drugs WM had a prescription for. I do not believe that either oxycontin or oxycodone were mentioned as having been found in WM's bedroom?

I realize this is only Day#4 of the trial, however apparently it is proceeding at a fast clip and it would not surprise me if this trial is over before the noted expected duration. I am wondering what other due diligence was undertaken, such as:
-ensuring the bullet actually came from that particular gun that was discovered on scene;
-were blood experts consulted regarding whether the locations and etc. made sense, in which blood was found (ie WM's palm, but yet none on the gun itself?); would such a gunshot wound create any spray/blowback and if so, was it seen where it was should have been seen?
-the logistics of positioning in regard to a person sleeping/laying in that position on left side, using left hand, to shoot left eye, with left thumb pulling the trigger, which bullet travels on a right angle to lodge in the brain - would the gun have been able to even fit on the required angle, considering the head was lying on its left side and the pillow was right there in the way?;
-did police look at the registration for that gun to see who was supposed to be the owner, or was that not possible due to its age, and the possibility that WM may have owned it for several years (I'm not sure when gun registration became a requirement?);
-if someone other than the deceased was the shooter, are the logistics of *that* positioning possible? And what if the shooter was left-handed?
-were WM's hands tested for GSR?
-were tests run (or are such tests even possible?) to show whether WM was conscious at the time of the gunshot wound? (ie are they able to tell if a person may have been drugged or smothered into unconsciousness before the bullet ended his life?)
-did they interview any of the bunch of mechanics that were at the hangar working with DM on Nov 29th to confirm time DM left, and perhaps what he was wearing?
-how much alcohol should have been normal to see in WM's blood due to decomposition at the time the blood was taken for testing, and after taking that amount into consideration, how much alcohol was in WM's system due to consumption?

Or... is due diligence not really required when a scene presents as 60-70% likely to be suicide/30-40% suspicious?

Adam Carter Liveblog:
Jun 4 2018 2:41 PM
"Hutcheon says the coroner told him this seems like 60 to 70 per cent suicide, 30 to 40 per cent suspicious. We heard previously the cause of death is determined on a balance of probabilities."
 
deugirtni said:
I was wondering about the significance of this mention yesterday as well. The coroner said he'd been told WM was taking oxycontin, while today's testimony said oxycodone. I wonder if the autopsy and due diligence would have included comparing whatever drugs may have been found in WM's system with whatever drugs WM had a prescription for. I do not believe that either oxycontin or oxycodone were mentioned as having been found in WM's bedroom?

I realize this is only Day#4 of the trial, however apparently it is proceeding at a fast clip and it would not surprise me if this trial is over before the noted expected duration. I am wondering what other due diligence was undertaken, such as:
-ensuring the bullet actually came from that particular gun that was discovered on scene;
-were blood experts consulted regarding whether the locations and etc. made sense, in which blood was found (ie WM's palm, but yet none on the gun itself?); would such a gunshot wound create any spray/blowback and if so, was it seen where it was should have been seen?
-the logistics of positioning in regard to a person sleeping/laying in that position on left side, using left hand, to shoot left eye, with left thumb pulling the trigger, which bullet travels on a right angle to lodge in the brain - would the gun have been able to even fit on the required angle, considering the head was lying on its left side and the pillow was right there in the way?;
-did police look at the registration for that gun to see who was supposed to be the owner, or was that not possible due to its age, and the possibility that WM may have owned it for several years (I'm not sure when gun registration became a requirement?);
-if someone other than the deceased was the shooter, are the logistics of *that* positioning possible? And what if the shooter was left-handed?
-were WM's hands tested for GSR?
-were tests run (or are such tests even possible?) to show whether WM was conscious at the time of the gunshot wound? (ie are they able to tell if a person may have been drugged or smothered into unconsciousness before the bullet ended his life?)
-did they interview any of the bunch of mechanics that were at the hangar working with DM on Nov 29th to confirm time DM left, and perhaps what he was wearing?
-how much alcohol should have been normal to see in WM's blood due to decomposition at the time the blood was taken for testing, and after taking that amount into consideration, how much alcohol was in WM's system due to consumption?

Or... is due diligence not really required when a scene presents as 60-70% likely to be suicide/30-40% suspicious?

Adam Carter Liveblog:
Jun 4 2018 2:41 PM
"Hutcheon says the coroner told him this seems like 60 to 70 per cent suicide, 30 to 40 per cent suspicious. We heard previously the cause of death is determined on a balance of probabilities."
Click to expand...

That is a lot of questions but here are my thoughts on at least some of them:

Most of that wasn't done because it was deemed a suicide, so it wasn't a large investigation at the time. WM's remains were then cremated. There may be some expert witnesses called but I don't think there is a list of witnesses out for public viewing yet.

The gun ownership was not checked at the time as far as I know but it was determined to be an illegal gun that was sold to DM and never belonged to WM. Firearms trafficker who sold gun used in Tim Bosma killing sentenced to 11 years in prison | CBC News

ETA: they did mention near the beginning of the trial that percocet was found as well as other medications. Percocet contains oxycodone.
 
lighthousedi said:
I'm thinking it will be really bad form for a Poll Supervisor to be constantly scanning this site while managing a poll during Thursday's provincial election ... soooo - I'm already anticipating snuggling in my jammies with my laptop with a cold one (not a rye, not a whiskey, not a Jack, not a mini wine bottle or cooler - just a good 'ole cold can of beer) devouring everyone's comments and the tweets into the early hours of Friday. I don't post often but I talk at/with/in agreement and sometimes against many of you posting here. Your insights are appreciated and often give me something else to consider. Thanks for posting the tweets and for the delightful commentary on such a range of topics ... I did particularly like the whiskey/rye sidebar inserted into the discussion earlier this afternoon.
Click to expand...
Regarding "Rye" I had a hard time looking grown up while trying to find this header at the LCBO when I turned of age. :)
 
6degrees said:
I believe we've heard that it was the EMS person who, after hearing WM abused alcohol, suggested the blood could have been "from his throat". What he's referring to is hemorrhage secondary to esophageal varices that people who have more cirrhosis may have. These hemorrhages are not typically spontaneous, but rather would more likely bleed/hemorrhage in the context of an increase in the intraluminal pressure that would come with vomiting. Esophageal varices are really a complication of uncompensated cirrhosis...WM would have been a pretty sick man had this been the case. Nonetheless, to me it seems like a widely unprofessional comment for an EMS paramedic to make given he knew nothing of WM's medical history other than the comment that DM and MB made about his alcohol abuse.
Click to expand...

Helpful information, 6degrees. I have been present to two individuals dying with bleeding oesophageal varicies. The amount of blood loss is overwhelming. Blood which has collected in the stomach is vomited up many times over several hours. It is a difficult time.
 
Foxone1 said:
Toronto Police have to approach sudden deaths as suspicious . Dellen is going to be found not guilty because of the bad Police work in this case
Click to expand...

People always cut up TPS, but having seen the evidence thus far, what would tip you off that this was a murder. Millard was very cooperative with police and in his interview appeared to be distraught. He didn't really say anything out of the ordinary and to this point I haven't heard anything to say he contradicted himself. Would you like TPS to treat every family member of a suicide victim as a murder suspect? Fact is that multiple people have told police that WM was under stress, in financial crisis, was prone to depression, and was on powerful medication while continuing to drink heavily. He fit the bill as somebody that would kill themselves.

Also, if Millard had planned this, why would he leave marijuana lying around. Why would he suggest that his father had gotten rid of all his guns years earlier? That said, I would have asked him why he would call his mother first, before calling 911. At this point that is the only thing that seems strange.
 
Kamille said:
And what did he mean by WM switching to 8-10 little wine bottles instead of whiskey? Was he taking about wine coolers? And what young person uses the term "whiskey"? Was DM really that ignorant about alcoholic beverages after all his parties?

I did count 4 bottles of water on WM's dresser. And a couple of bottles that could have been alcohol.

MOO
Click to expand...
perhaps small wine bottle are the regular size you would get in a restaurant when ordering a bottle of wine..or the ones those of us who bottle our own would use. LCBO also sell the larger ones, not sure of size but costs like $22.00 plus???
 
andreww said:
People always cut up TPS, but having seen the evidence thus far, what would tip you off that this was a murder. Millard was very cooperative with police and in his interview appeared to be distraught. He didn't really say anything out of the ordinary and to this point I haven't heard anything to say he contradicted himself. Would you like TPS to treat every family member of a suicide victim as a murder suspect? Fact is that multiple people have told police that WM was under stress, in financial crisis, was prone to depression, and was on powerful medication while continuing to drink heavily. He fit the bill as somebody that would kill themselves.

Also, if Millard had planned this, why would he leave marijuana lying around. Why would he suggest that his father had gotten rid of all his guns years earlier? That said, I would have asked him why he would call his mother first, before calling 911. At this point that is the only thing that seems strange.
Click to expand...
I don't think it was suicide, but I do see the police after talking to the mother and DM and being told he was a long time alcoholic, he had health problems and his age would make the police think it is very likely a suicide.
We just have to wait and see what else we learn during this trial.
It is moving at a fast pace so hopefully, we will begin to learn all the evidence and from the witnesses and then wait for a verdict from the judge.
MM will be a witness on Thursday. I am interested to hear what she has to say.
Even if he is, and I hope not, found not guilty he will never get out of prison, thank god.
 
MsSherlock said:
I can't help but view MB's as DM's clean up person- his ultimate protector and enabler. MOO
Click to expand...

I agree, and I think she may have also been searching for cash, or other small valuables. When DM was arrested, she and CM went to DM's house to retrieve about 5 or 6 thousand in cash they knew was there. IMO
 
Interesting little exchange at the end of the day.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2h2 hours ago
Crown Jill Cameron just apologized to the judge for Hutcheon's comments to her earlier. That's the first time I've ever seen that. #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2h2 hours ago
"One of the witnesses, retired officer Hutcheon was very rude to you," Cameron says. She says she can usually see that coming and head it off at the pass, but by the time it happened here, he was in cross-examination, so she couldn't speak with him. #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2h2 hours ago
That's it for me today. I'll have an update up soon. Thanks everyone for following along. #Millard

And the update....

Crown apologizes to judge for its own witness at Millard murder trial | CBC News
 
Roxie Rosa said:
perhaps small wine bottle are the regular size you would get in a restaurant when ordering a bottle of wine..or the ones those of us who bottle our own would use. LCBO also sell the larger ones, not sure of size but costs like $22.00 plus???
Click to expand...

Well I can't imagine the state someone would be in if they drank 8-10 of those a night. :eek:
 
andreww said:
People always cut up TPS, but having seen the evidence thus far, what would tip you off that this was a murder. Millard was very cooperative with police and in his interview appeared to be distraught. He didn't really say anything out of the ordinary and to this point I haven't heard anything to say he contradicted himself. Would you like TPS to treat every family member of a suicide victim as a murder suspect? Fact is that multiple people have told police that WM was under stress, in financial crisis, was prone to depression, and was on powerful medication while continuing to drink heavily. He fit the bill as somebody that would kill themselves.

Also, if Millard had planned this, why would he leave marijuana lying around. Why would he suggest that his father had gotten rid of all his guns years earlier? That said, I would have asked him why he would call his mother first, before calling 911. At this point that is the only thing that seems strange.
Click to expand...

71yr old wealthy gentleman curled up in bed as if asleep with a bullet wound to his eye.

His 27yr old only son, roommate, heir and business partner called his mother, the gentleman's long past ex wife and waited for her to show up and call 911. He did not seem upset or distressed when first responders showed up or any time after that. In contrast, his mother did.

He did not seem distraught at all in that taped interview. He was weaving one of his elaborate tales.

We've yet to hear of whether anyone else who was mentioned, like any of WM's business partners whom he spent his last day with, were interviewed about the financial distress claims but we already know that the last person to talk to him was not.

Did they contact WM's doctor? Lawyer? Anyone? We don't know what the housekeeper's statement says but I believe it's from the preliminary. Nothing from Nov 2012?

This case was effectively closed within 2 days of finding the body. Is that how all gunshot victims who "may" have shot themselves are dealt with? The shot was from an illegal firearm for cripes sake!

MOO
 
Shaz14 said:
That is a lot of questions but here are my thoughts on at least some of them:

Most of that wasn't done because it was deemed a suicide, so it wasn't a large investigation at the time. WM's remains were then cremated. There may be some expert witnesses called but I don't think there is a list of witnesses out for public viewing yet.

The gun ownership was not checked at the time as far as I know but it was determined to be an illegal gun that was sold to DM and never belonged to WM. Firearms trafficker who sold gun used in Tim Bosma killing sentenced to 11 years in prison | CBC News

ETA: they did mention near the beginning of the trial that percocet was found as well as other medications. Percocet contains oxycodone.
Click to expand...

Hi all....Thought I'd attempt to find where I read about the medications....here's the quote. As I mentioned in an earlier post from today, percocet is the brand name for a combined product of oxycodone and acetaminophen. I'm a nurse practitioner and prescribe these so feel confident in stating this without hesitation.
Johnston says there were three different medications found in the room: Tylenol 2, percocet and baclofen. #Millard
 
andreww said:
People always cut up TPS, but having seen the evidence thus far, what would tip you off that this was a murder. Millard was very cooperative with police and in his interview appeared to be distraught. He didn't really say anything out of the ordinary and to this point I haven't heard anything to say he contradicted himself. Would you like TPS to treat every family member of a suicide victim as a murder suspect? Fact is that multiple people have told police that WM was under stress, in financial crisis, was prone to depression, and was on powerful medication while continuing to drink heavily. He fit the bill as somebody that would kill themselves.

Also, if Millard had planned this, why would he leave marijuana lying around. Why would he suggest that his father had gotten rid of all his guns years earlier? That said, I would have asked him why he would call his mother first, before calling 911. At this point that is the only thing that seems strange.
Click to expand...
I've watched the full interview twice. By my operational definition of the word distraught, DM was absolutely not distraught. Maybe I've missed something to this point in the testimony, but I don't know who you are referring to when you indicate that multiple people told police that WM was under stress, financial and otherwise. From the testimony, JC indicated clearly that he while he was stressed he was excited about the plan coming together for the MRO. Furthermore, you can see even in the interview that while DM was essentially saying "there's more than a chance this will fail", the detective pointed out to him that it had really only been three weeks since obtaining the MRO which really is a short period of time and certainly not an early marker of failure. DM is so self absorbed, disconnected and wrapped up in his own sick world that he doesn't even realize how ridiculous some of the things he says and tries to pass off as reality actually are.
 
Kamille said:
71yr old wealthy gentleman curled up in bed as if asleep with a bullet wound to his eye.
Click to expand...

I keep coming back to that... his position as it has been described really makes it seem like he was asleep (right hand tucked under cheek, blankets pulled right up). It seems like a very unlikely (and awkward!) position to choose for shooting oneself.

The only reason I can think of for him being in that position to shoot himself is that maybe he was very intoxicated (potentially from a mix of alcohol and meds) and on the verge of passing out?
 
Purr said:
An illegal gun that was purchased by the son (later found to have the son's dna on it).
Click to expand...

This is what I have never understood about this case. The gun isn’t legal in Canada. Did none of the TPS know this?
Even if they thought it was a suicide why didn’t they try to find out how an illegal gun got into the house.
 
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