weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #140

[Hatfield]

It is the end of the night and as usual somewhat random thoughts go through my mind.

Tonight's free flowing thought went back to my first real notice of this case. I caught a clip of JA's interview with (I think) 48 Hrs. The one where she explains her behavior in the interview room as wanting to put her best face forward because that is what Travis would want her to do (I am paraphrasing her words)

That has always bothered me. Tonight I figured out why. In some cultures during a battle, warriors are said to believe that when they take a foe's life, they take on his power, his strength or other attributes.

Hasn't JA made other public remarks about what Travis would want her to do?

I'm wondering if in some part of her if maybe JA feels like Travis is 'with' her, since she killed him. With her, always approving of what she does or wants to do, always admiring her.

Interesting. She has said things like that on a few occasions. Im not sure it is exactly as you describe, but something along those lines maybe.

Maybe it is something about some of her devil worshiping type things she has been rumored to delve into. Maybe she thinks she got his soal instead of her own. Maybe she thought by killing him, she could get a real soal because she knew she is devoid of one.

I've always wondered if she deep down knows she truly cannot feel like others, and she knew she was a physchopath, and when Travis called her that in her letters she became outraged because she knew it was the truth. I am sure it is not the first time she has been called a phsychopath and she probably began to realize it herself, but never wanted to admit it to herself.

She continues to scare me the more I watch her in court and learn about the devious things she continues to do, like stealing and hiding pens, twittering from behind bars, getting into a fight. She is very dangerous.

 

[Sleuth5]

this has probably already been posted before...

in the trial Laviollette has testified about Arias not writing negative things in her journal (in the period leading up to the killing) because of Arias following of the "law of attraction"...

but I just noticed on Arias blog - specifically her entry from May 4, 2008 (just one month before the murder,) she writes that she stopped believing in the "law of attraction" about 6 months prior

and

So while I now go about my day in a manner far removed from my previous Mode of Operation...

http://jodiarias.blogspot.com/2008/05/law-of-attraction-here-we-go-again.html


edited to add:

December 2007 would be six months prior...and that's when Travis started dating another woman & that's also when Arias had alledgedly slashed his tires.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/31/jodi-arias-timeline_n_2387245.html

Nice catch. Of course, I'm of the opinion that the jury has long since discarded any idea of serious consideration of all the "laws of attraction" absolute bollocks. Nonsense of the first order from the beginning.

 

[DairyGirl]

Because it has become snooze inducing. However she tells this and then later she admits she got this from other sources and JA did not really tell her it was an apple.

Isn't it funny how whatever ALV says that JA told her is different from what she told other people? And it isn't because JA lied to any of them. They just misspoke or misunderstood. That is what a pathological liar does to you. They make you think you are the crazy one. I grew up with a person like this and I learned not to trust my feelings. I couldn't trust what I heard or even saw. I could only trust what they told me. Is it any wonder that my first husband and many of my boyfriends were pathological liars? It was what I knew and it was familiar to me. I never questioned them because I didn't trust my own instincts. If they said it was so then it must have been because I could of been wrong or heard it wrong. It was always my fault because they never lied, I just misunderstood what I heard or what I saw.

 

[PPKik]

I don't think he did, but phone records indicate that she tried to call him a few times before she got there. Voice mail may have alerted him to the fact that she was on her way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nhic
We need a poll - did Travis know JA was going to his house the day she murdered him?


I vote no.


I vote No. If not for that May 26 exchange (and disturbing photos), I wouldn't feel strongly. But whatever she did, we know it had to be very bad, and I can't imagine he would wait up for for 4am arrival under any circumstances and then "entertain" her all day in his house. No.

 

[Sleuth5]

Okay...I know I'm a little slow, but it's been crazy the past couple of days. I JUST finally watched the video of yesterday in full and OH MY GAWD it is OVER for Jodi. Almost every question screamed - "We don't believe you Alyce"! This is just wonderful for Juan...what a fabulous job he is doing!!!!!

Didn't I tell you? Not to be missed!

 

[suspicious1]

No

I found it chilling that in JA's testimony she said that she lingered at the office door watching Travis & Napoleon for several minutes before they noticed her. Now if that's not stalking behavior I don't know what is. If Travis was expecting her wouldn't have he been watching for her? Why would she have to sneak into the house?

Just my :twocents:

I agree...

And what's even more chilling than that is Jodi, when answering Juror questions, said that Napoleon would BARK if someone OPENED OR KNOCKED on the door.

Sooooo how in the hell did she make it to his office UNNOTICED?

She was sneaking.........that's how.

She didn't enter through the front door.

JMO

 

[Sleuth5]

Isn't it funny how whatever ALV says that JA told her is different from what she told other people? And it isn't because JA lied to any of them. They just misspoke or misunderstood. That is what a pathological liar does to you. They make you think you are the crazy one. I grew up with a person like this and I learned not to trust my feelings. I couldn't trust what I heard or even saw. I could only trust what they told me. Is it any wonder that my first husband and many of my boyfriends were pathological liars? It was what I knew and it was familiar to me. I never questioned them because I didn't trust my own instincts. If they said it was so then it must have been because I could of been wrong or heard it wrong. It was always my fault because they never lied, I just misunderstood what I heard or what I saw.

I think it was precisely this kind of maddening gaslighting you are describing that drove Travis to the "rant" that probably set this whole thing off when she realized her control over him was pretty much shattered.

 

[DairyGirl]

I have a feeling she didn't file tax returns and Juan has that information

I think being a tax evader is the least of her problems.

 

[janx]

I have always thought that creepy little tale that JA related about watching TA and Nap while TA was on the computer was true. But I think that TA didn't know she was there and wasn't expecting her. I think that she was skulking around in the dark and was watching through the window and that is why Nap didn't alert on her.

Was there a point at which she could not make the garage door code work? It's late and I may be mistaken...

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Wouldn't you say she's already well on the way at this point, Mrs. G?

I'm not sure .. I certainly hope so, but I can still see LWOP as a distinct possibility.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

I don't believe for one minute that Travis gave her "cleaning chores". She testified that sometimes she had to clean the baseboards, and one time he had her dust all of the shelves. She also said that one time she went to his house and she usually just hung out on the couch downstairs but that Travis had evidently cleaned all of the floors and had the couch covered up with chairs. Travis texted her one time telling her that she couldn't take her lazy self to even take the time to read 15 minutes of something he sent her. I believe she was lazy and I highly doubt she did any "cleaning chores" in Travis' house. Just another story to match the crime. MOO

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

But it's about the level of intimacy!!! Didn't you listen to alyce at all?

:facepalm:

Kscornfed, there is no yes or no answer to whether I listened to her. I'm confused about what you mean by 'at all' because I don't know whether you're asking to what degree I listened or if I half listened or if you're implying I didn't listen. I know that I have research on how often people fail to listen because they can't hear and they can't hear because of an awful wax build-up but again, I'm not sure if you're asking about making a choice to listen or an inability to listen because of a buildup of wax. I see no end to the possibilities of how the question can be interpreted but I actually left the research in my bag over there and I can get it if you really need the wax buildup answer. In the meantime, I'm also perplexed about whether you may be implying *I* have a buildup of wax and if that somehow impacted my relationship with Alyce and now that I think of it you're mis-characterizing my contact with Alyce, which doesn't rise to the level of a "relationship" much less an intimate one. You're asking me very incomplete questions that don't get at what I'm equipped to explain. So if you could just clarify for me what you mean by the word "intimacy" I can determine if I am applying the same definition and interpretation that you're applying. Now would be a great time to explain to you how *I* define* wax buildup and the effect of that on intimacy and listening as opposed to the way Webster approaches those definitions. We could add these words to my continuum but you had a little episode last time I suggested looking at the continuum and that quite frankly gave me the impression you weren't listening so if you don't want to listen and I don't understand what you're getting at, you'll agree that this simply cannot be answered with a "yes" or "no" ... did you know there is blood coming from your ears, kscornfed?

 

[Sleuth5]

I have always thought that creepy little tale that JA related about watching TA and Nap while TA was on the computer was true. But I think that TA didn't know she was there and wasn't expecting her. I think that she was skulking around in the dark and was watching through the window and that is why Nap didn't alert on her.

ITA. I think there was a whole lot of sneaking around going on, and it was downright creepy. Creepy.

 

[ChinaBlue]

I can not access the link! The Psychology one. TIA!

For some reason, the link is not taking. You'll have to go to the Psychology Today web site and put the following in the search box - The Mobbing of Alyce LaViolette

 

[Sleuth5]

I'm not sure .. I certainly hope so, but I can still see LWOP as a distinct possibility.

Oh, I can agree with that, but as long as she never gets out, I'll be happy.

 

[PPKik]

Isn't it funny how whatever ALV says that JA told her is different from what she told other people? And it isn't because JA lied to any of them. They just misspoke or misunderstood. That is what a pathological liar does to you. They make you think you are the crazy one. I grew up with a person like this and I learned not to trust my feelings. I couldn't trust what I heard or even saw. I could only trust what they told me. Is it any wonder that my first husband and many of my boyfriends were pathological liars? It was what I knew and it was familiar to me. I never questioned them because I didn't trust my own instincts. If they said it was so then it must have been because I could of been wrong or heard it wrong. It was always my fault because they never lied, I just misunderstood what I heard or what I saw.

I experienced the same as you did with pathological liars. It was horrible.

One, who was also a stalker, once accused me repeatedly of doing something I didn't do. At one point my stalker/abuser said: "What you did YOU would never forget."

 

[InTheGarden]

You must have forgotten that it was unloaded when she first found it -- Travis told her so. Then later he told her it was loaded, then another time she saw him load it and take it somewhere, but she's only actually seen the gun twice, including the day of the murder. New math ....

Not to mention it was not in a holster, then in a holster, and then not remembering if it was in a holster or not.

This logic explains why ALV and JA got along so well.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

this has probably already been posted before...

in the trial Laviollette has testified about Arias not writing negative things in her journal (in the period leading up to the killing) because of Arias following of the "law of attraction"...

but I just noticed on Arias blog - specifically her entry from May 4, 2008 (just one month before the murder,) she writes that she stopped believing in the "law of attraction" about 6 months prior

and

So while I now go about my day in a manner far removed from my previous Mode of Operation...

http://jodiarias.blogspot.com/2008/05/law-of-attraction-here-we-go-again.html


edited to add:

December 2007 would be six months prior...and that's when Travis started dating another woman & that's also when Arias had alledgedly slashed his tires.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/31/jodi-arias-timeline_n_2387245.html

The Jurors never saw what she wrote in her "blog" on facebook or myspace or whatever it was. She never wrote this in her "Journal" as far as I know.
MOO

 

[Karmady]

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh: You have a point there!

You'd think slashing the throat of a cadaver would be quite a bit easier than doing so on a living human being fighting for his life. ?

I had assumed it would be difficult even if the person wasn't resisting. It just seemed like something that would require a lot of physical effort to do, regardless. He said it's really not hard since there's nothing there but the collar bones to get in your way.

 

[DairyGirl]

I think Samuels was supposed to try and diagnose her with PTSD from the ongoing domestic violence from the relationship. I think was expected to lead the way for the DV expert to come in and bolster that opinion, that Jodi was battered and fragile, and so it makes sense she would go a bit overboard in that self defense incident.

But Samuels bumbled so badly out the gate, he never was able to pull it off. The best he could get was PTSD from the MURDER she committed. Which is useless, pretty much.

That was a pretty weak foundation for ALV to try and build her framework on. So she is left with saying " Shore, she lied, but that does not make her a liar. "

I believe you are right. It really blew up on the doctor when he started talking about her having PTSD and instead of connecting it to DV he just got all scrambled and blamed the trauma of committing the murder for her PTSD. That really made the jury feel sorry for her. Not.