Were things out of control for TH? Did she "snap"?

[froginTtown]

Sept 2009 - Kyron back to school.

- Began wanting behavior chart daily & asking Kaine to give consequences for less than green color.

- May have begun sending emails to Desiree with complaints about Kaine, and also saying she should have Kyron's teacher's job.

Nov 2009 - Hires landscaper. May have proposed he murder her husband in exchange for money.

Feb 2010 - Decides, likely with J's dad, that J should go live with her parents. J and Kaine had been 'butting heads'. Terri had a fight with J.


No, I don't think Terri snapped. I'm not even sure all of that happened.

I do know that Kaine said repeatedly for weeks that everything was peachy keen. If she snapped on June 4, then I would have expected him instead to say, "Oh yeah. Things were building up. She was real unhappy. Doing strange things."

But instead, Kaine said he was completely blindsided. Everything was just fine.

Desiree has never said she saw signs of anything building up to snap either.

I'm going to go with what Kaine and Desiree say. I'm a team player.

and as time went on ... He admitted that she had emotion outburst...I don't know how he missed that one...:waitasec:

 

[passionflower]

All I can think of was TH was always, different.......selfish and planned on what she wanted and worked to get it! (as in getting Kaine)
IMO, she snapped with the pressure, hate, jealousy long ago with the MFH.
Then she simmered til she planned her escape from Kyron (& Desiree) but it all back fired.
JMOO, she has allot of problems, like in never growing up.............

 

[grayjay]

I think of Gollum in Lord of the Rings. A seething pile of hatred and rage doesn't snap so much as loses control over the rage. It tries to find ways to exact revenge while preserving itself from exposure.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gollum"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gollum[/ame]

 

[Morag]

Sept 2009 snip...
- May have begun sending emails to Desiree with complaints about Kaine, and also saying she should have Kyron's teacher's job. snip

....

The expression, "I'll have your job" means something a little different to me and maybe to others. It doesn't necessarily mean I want to do your job, but that I will have your job taken from you. It may be a southern or a victorian era expression, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Terri was trying to get the job away from Ms Porter.

From "101 Reasons You Should Not Become a Cop"
http://tinyurl.com/329xftc
A description of I'll have your job!

 

[Billylee]

Of course it's possible she "snapped". Any one of us can snap, I guess. Though I don't know what it would take to make someone snap enough to hurt a little child, it happens. It even happens to otherwise "good intended" parents. I don't know if TH did, but if she did, I wonder if it had anything to do with the evaluation she may have received from the teacher on Kyron's science project. I also have been wondering, if she is guilty, of whatever it is she hasn't been charged with yet (LOL)
what kind of plea would she take. Perhaps "snapping" is one of them, would that be temporary insanity or what?

 

[mmmagique]

I wasn't there during the commission of the crime. I've never met TH.

Thus, without seeing the evidence nor witnessing the crime, how would one know if TH did it?

And how could anyone who's never met TH and hasn't seen the evidence determine her motive?

???

I certainly couldn't.

And TH hasn't disclosed her involvement or motive (if she's involved).

/the end

FR, and sorry if this has been said, but...what is the point of a site like this if no one is allowed to speculate about anything except what they have seen with their own eyes?

 

[BeanE]

The expression, "I'll have your job" means something a little different to me and maybe to others. It doesn't necessarily mean I want to do your job, but that I will have your job taken from you. It may be a southern or a victorian era expression, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Terri was trying to get the job away from Ms Porter.

From "101 Reasons You Should Not Become a Cop"
http://tinyurl.com/329xftc
A description of I'll have your job!

Oh I see what you mean. Up north we say "I'll have your job!". Not that you'll do it, but that you'll see to it the person is fired. But the way Desiree put it, I taking it as "I should have her job because I could do it better." I don't know.

 

[TxLady2]

I have no idea whether she 'snapped' or not. I've never even heard her speak. That makes it kind of hard to analyze what happened to her IF she somehow caused Kyron's disappearance. I thought the general consensus was that this was premeditated. People don't premeditate something and then SNAP. Just a few days ago she was cold, and calculating. Today she snapped and killed him.
We can't have it both ways.

 

[TxLady2]

The expression, "I'll have your job" means something a little different to me and maybe to others. It doesn't necessarily mean I want to do your job, but that I will have your job taken from you. It may be a southern or a victorian era expression, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Terri was trying to get the job away from Ms Porter.

From "101 Reasons You Should Not Become a Cop"
http://tinyurl.com/329xftc
A description of I'll have your job!

If she said, "I'll have your/her job" it probably means she would cause the teacher to lose her job.
If she said, "I should have the teacher's job" it probably means she thinks she would be better at teaching than Ms. Porter was.
Could be either way.

 

[cluciano63]

I think it is weird that Kaine says she "used to" drink a lot, she "used to" have PPD (maybe) and she "used to" take too many OTC meds, etc...as though she was doing none of those things of late...either he did not know what she did or did not do, or have anymore, or he wants to deflect the possibility that he knew of all these possibly on-going issues and yet let her care for the children?


As far as "snapped"-I think it pertains if Terri harmed Kyron in a rage that morning...taking out all of her anger w/Kaine (or school or Desiree...) on Kyron. I've never thought this was premeditated, if she did anything.

 

[stmarysmead]

But, of course, if the Murder for Hire plot is true...this storyline here is about more than a woman "snapping." Terri Horman would, in that case, be that rare individual who is comfortable with the idea of DEATH, actual death has an acceptable problem-solver.

Terri Horman would then be..not a woman who LOST it...but, at least in Kaine's case, a cold-blooded type who actually made a murder plan, thought how to achieve it, and then actively tried to implement it.

Those who criticize Kaine...whether he is supposedly cheap, controlling, whatever...should sit and think how it must feel to have the police tell you, as you search and fear for your little boy that your wife actively sought to take your life. You'd be dead..if she could have managed it!

Dead!

To say "she snapped" is far too kind to Terri if she could actively plan to murder her husband. If that proves credible...IMO it's more logical whatever happened to Kyron was planned and implemented as well. Only maybe this time, she had a more reliable accomplice.

 

[scandi]

Sept 2009 - Kyron back to school.

- Began wanting behavior chart daily & asking Kaine to give consequences for less than green color.

- May have begun sending emails to Desiree with complaints about Kaine, and also saying she should have Kyron's teacher's job.

Nov 2009 - Hires landscaper. May have proposed he murder her husband in exchange for money.

Feb 2010 - Decides, likely with J's dad, that J should go live with her parents. J and Kaine had been 'butting heads'. Terri had a fight with J.


No, I don't think Terri snapped. I'm not even sure all of that happened.

I do know that Kaine said repeatedly for weeks that everything was peachy keen. If she snapped on June 4, then I would have expected him instead to say, "Oh yeah. Things were building up. She was real unhappy. Doing strange things."

But instead, Kaine said he was completely blindsided. Everything was just fine.

Desiree has never said she saw signs of anything building up to snap either.

I'm going to go with what Kaine and Desiree say. I'm a team player.

Hi BeanE, With all due respect I think Kaine might not have been totally truthful when he said everything was fine. I have read many places they had a big fight the evening of the 3rd which is why she didn't bring Kyron's project to school that night as planned. She brought it the next morning instead.

 

[cluciano63]

I really think that if Terri wanted Kaine dead, he would be dead. There is a long road between asking someone to knock off your hubby and having an intricate plan to do so. If she did, with any seriousness.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...It doesn't necessarily mean I want to do your job, but that I will have your job taken from you.., but it doesn't necessarily mean that Terri was trying to get the job away from Ms Porter.

Respectfully edited. I thought that Terri was simply confiding in Desiree that she didn't think that Kyron's teacher was effective in the classroom and that she (Terri) might handle things differently, particularly with regard to Kyron. It wouldn't have been the first time that a parent who was also a teacher felt that he/she might teach things more creatively, deal with disciplinary issues more rationally, etc. I have no reason to believe that Terri didn't make every effort to have a good relationship with Ms. Porter and that both educators wanted only the best for Kyron. jmo

 

[cypress]

I think it is weird that Kaine says she "used to" drink a lot, she "used to" have PPD (maybe) and she "used to" take too many OTC meds, etc...as though she was doing none of those things of late...either he did not know what she did or did not do, or have anymore, or he wants to deflect the possibility that he knew of all these possibly on-going issues and yet let her care for the children?


As far as "snapped"-I think it pertains if Terri harmed Kyron in a rage that morning...taking out all of her anger w/Kaine (or school or Desiree...) on Kyron. I've never thought this was premeditated, if she did anything.

I've greatly respected your opinion throughout discussing this case, and I appreciate your willingness to think outside the widely accepted box, but I've never been able to fully understand the assertion that this was somehow an act of rage.

I've considered it, but right away, there are too many problems, IMHO. If this was an act of rage, where did it happen? Inside the school? Wouldn't someone have seen something that day? LE's questions and questionnaires don't indicate much, if anything, out of the ordinary was witnessed. They're looking for it, but I don't think they've found it.

If it happened in the truck, there's the same issue about Kyron getting into Terri's truck unseen. What about forensics? She was quick thinking enough to drive not only to one, but two FMs, to construct an alibi? She conversed with Andrea in a completely ordinary fashion?

IMHO, I've always thought Terri planned this in the extreme or she's innocent. I don't think there's middle ground, but granted, that's just IMHO.

 

[stmarysmead]

I really think that if Terri wanted Kaine dead, he would be dead. There is a long road between asking someone to knock of your hubby and having an intricate plan to do so. If she did, with any seriousness.

Well, if she wasn't serious...even at that...it's not something your normal housewife does every day, is it? Banter about your husband's death.

Especially since... in a court document, we learned there is some similarity between her behavior with the Landscaper and her behavior with her "sexting Friend"...that LE has informed Kaine and his attorney about.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Poli...-98369624.html

"The motion also states police told Kaine that Terri exchanged hundred of text messages with Cook and several photographs of Terri Horman "in various stages of undress and graphic sexual activity." According to the filing, the "sexual nature" of the relationship between Cook and Terri Horman began on or about June 30, four days after Kaine Horman moved out of the family's Northwest Portland home.

Cook was a high school classmate of Kaine Horman, and also helped organize the first vigil for missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman.

Monday's court filing also stated that police had told Kaine that Terri's "sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent (Terri Horman) attempted to hire to murder Petitioner (Kaine)."

@@@@

Is the "resemblance"...between Terri's interactions with the two men...the sexuality or the death talk?

Was "sex" part of the plan to persuade the Landscaper to kill Kaine? That's a plan...NOT a "snap."

That is one, cold calculating wanna-be Killer.

Maybe she just chose badly the first time. She chose a relative stranger. In her next plan...maybe she chose her best friend.

Just speculating of course.

 

[cluciano63]

I've greatly respected your opinion throughout discussing this case, and I appreciate your willingness to think outside the widely accepted box, but I've never been able to fully understand the assertion that this was somehow an act of rage.

I've considered it, but right away, there are too many problems, IMHO. If this was an act of rage, where did it happen? Inside the school? Wouldn't someone have seen something that day? LE's questions and questionnaires don't indicate much, if anything, out of the ordinary was witnessed. They're looking for it, but I don't think they've found it.

If it happened in the truck, there's the same issue about Kyron getting into Terri's truck unseen. What about forensics? She was quick thinking enough to drive not only to one, but two FMs, to construct an alibi? She conversed with Andrea in a completely ordinary fashion?

IMHO, I've always thought Terri planned this in the extreme or she's innocent. I don't think there's middle ground, but granted, that's just IMHO.

It's not so much that I think it was unplanned as I can't bring myself to think it was planned, if that makes sense. I can see Terri letting Kyron talk her into skipping school, for instance, and then when she gets him in the truck, he make her angry, maybe says something about how he can't wait to see Desiree that night. In this scenario, she would have to strangle him, probably, in order to not leave evidence and literally toss him out of the truck, due to the time constraints of her alibi, unless he was in the truck at the store. None of this makes to sense to me, however, which is why I can't buy into her being guilty at all until I know more. I for one, do not see a link between whatever she may have wanted done with Kaine, and Kyron.

 

[stmarysmead]

"I for one, do not see a link between whatever she may have wanted done with Kaine, and Kyron."

I'd like to ask you a question, not even to debate but just to better understand. I know there are others who share your opinion. But, let's just assume that the Murder For Hire can be proven...do you still dismiss it as being un-important to LE in trying to find a suspect in Kyron's disappearance?

Suppose..in a list of suspects, there was someone who could beat a puppy to death. That cruelty would make that person my number one focus...until other evidence indicated innocence or pointed another way.

It's the capacity for cruelty. The diminishment of anothers pain and death.

A mind that is comfortable with the unimaginable (to me)..i.e. killing another human to solve a problem...jumps right to the front of the line with me when a child goes missing. Thank God very few of us can even imagine thinking this way.

So, I'm curious to understand why others find attempted Murder for Hire and Terri's alleged capacity to be ...comfortable with killing" so unimportant or un-suspicious?
I can understand "snapping" but I cannot get beyond the MFH.

 

[cluciano63]

In answer to above, as best I can...I just don't see the same kind of person, necessarily, wanting an irksome husband dead, possibly said in jest but even if not, and someone who would carry out a plan to murder a child they have basically raised for years. Not saying this person would not be on my list of suspects, even high on the list, but if I was a profiler, I would have to say these are not similar crimes. Just because someone will commit a crime, or even has committed a crime, does not mean they have committed all crimes within their realm.

i.e. Ron Cummings...is a criminal (drug dealer) possibly a (gun) thief. But even LE does not think he harmed his daughter.

 

[BeanE]

Hi BeanE, With all due respect I think Kaine might not have been totally truthful when he said everything was fine. I have read many places they had a big fight the evening of the 3rd which is why she didn't bring Kyron's project to school that night as planned. She brought it the next morning instead.

Could I have a link to some of those stories about them having a big fight on the 3rd? That's one story I haven't seen yet.

TIA