Were things out of control for TH? Did she "snap"?

[OneLove]

I go for the combo theory - there were indications at least in her adulthood that things weren't totally on the up and up with her. I think she was trying to buy into her Moulton upbringing with the teacher thing, but she always manipulated people, maybe even her parents, including with $ now. She definitely participated in substances, alcohol and KH mentioned legal ampehtamines and possibly more. I think everything came to a head, but yes, the plan to get rid of Kyron and KH was premeditated, the final decision to start "going over the line' (legal) was mostly a slow evolutionary process, but one small thing could have pushed her into that decision.[/QUOTE]

Do you have a guess as to what that one 'small' thing might have been?

I have been struck by what seems to be cosmetic work on her face very recently. If true, and I'm not sure about that, then her unnecessary trip to court for the divorce hearing might have been to show it. IF that is true, then it says to me MOO that she is very very competitive and jealous. That would give me a few guesses as to that "one small thing" that might have pushed her over the edge.

 

[mmmagique]

I believe its called Karma!

I was talking more about Terri who ended up in an affair with Desiree's husband, was mother to DY's child Kyron, and maybe thought she was "all that", and now the tables have perhaps turned so to speak! Sadly Kyron being missing could have been a result of the choices adults made in his life, IF it is proven TH did something sinister to Kyron. As i have learned in life our actions have consequences, whatever they may be. I think most of us realise that don't we? Its like a woman that has a very young child, then brings a boyfriend into their lives, she trusts the guy to love her and her child, and he beats the child to death while the child is on his watch, which i have heard of numerous cases of this happening. The mother's did not know this would happen, but in every relationship there is a risk factor, because we can usually not foresee things happening, there is always "risk" in any new relationship, and even in some that have been together for a long time.
What about the woman that is oblivious to her partner being a serial rapist or a murderer, that she never would of suspected of being capable of something like that! It can work in the reverse too, with a woman killing her child or children. That happened just recently in NC. People do "Snap" from some of the cases i have seen. Karma simply means what you sow you also reap, so if you put an action into effect, it will have certain consequences, and we sometimes don't know that until its too late, if something out of the ordinary does occur.
I will use a personal example, my 23 yr. old son got into a vehicle with a drunk driver, not even sure if he knew just how many drinks the guy had had. My son died as a result of him getting into that particular vehicle with that particular person. They were involved in an accident, and the driver came out not really hurt at all. There was the action that = a consequence.

I'm sorry about your son. That's horrible.

I'm not sure I would call any of those examples Karma, and I'm not sure what Karma has to do with an innocent child disappearing (and who knows what.) But I appreciate your response and your opinion.

 

[OneLove]

I'm sorry about your son. That's horrible.

I'm not sure I would call any of those examples Karma, and I'm not sure what Karma has to do with an innocent child disappearing (and who knows what.) But I appreciate your response and your opinion.

I'm thinking she means the bad that has befallen Terri as a consequence of her own bad choices, rather than addressing Kyron's karma.

 

[debs]

Do you have a guess as to what that one 'small' thing might have been?

I have been struck by what seems to be cosmetic work on her face very recently. If true, and I'm not sure about that, then her unnecessary trip to court for the divorce hearing might have been to show it. IF that is true, then it says to me MOO that she is very very competitive and jealous. That would give me a few guesses as to that "one small thing" that might have pushed her over the edge.

I saw Terri on camera for probably 15 whole seconds. I have seen the still shots. It looks only as though Terri has lost some weight.

 

[txsvicki]

Someone could snap with a baby waking up fussy and sick again as the day before and Kryon could have smarted off or not minded at some point that morning. The poor kid had to sit in his room all evening if he wasn't perfect at school , so he was already overly disciplined IMO.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

You write very eloquently. I am so very very sorry about your 23 year old son. Thank you for sharing. I will be sharing this with my own young adult sons; you may be saving their lives by sharing this. And yes, I do believe angels watch over them all, everywhere, all the time.

Thankyou for your very kind comment. Yes, it is important to tell our young ones of the dangers of driving under the influence of any substance. I am sure they feel as if they are "invincible" at times. All we can do is warn our children about the dangers that are out there, and i guess as parents we can never stress that enough. At a certain age they will hopefully remember what we tried to instill in them and teach them, yet bad things do happen to good people, very sadly. I too feel that Angels watch over us, even though when a Loved one dies, they are i believe taken care of, its just so difficult when we are left here to have to miss their physical presence. I am sure there is so much more to this life that we cannot yet comprehend, because of our limitations being in this physical realm.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I will explain how i understand "Karma". Karma is the belief that humans have 'free will" to choose good or evil and suffer the consequences. The Karmic effects of all deeds are viewed as actively shaping Past, Present & Future experiences.
It really has nothing to do with what Kyron did, he is only a small child, but more about what the adults in his life chose. Meaning that if TH had something to do with this crime, that was her choice, to knowingly do something evil, to perhaps bring harm to the child in her care. She would then have chosen her action and consequence. IF it was TH that did anything to Kyron, it would have been a very unfortunate choice that other family members made to have TH in their lives.

 

[cluciano63]

I dug out this thread today because I kind of do thing this might be what happened-that Terri "snapped." I thought so even before we learned all of the latest about her on-going drinking problem and emotional disturbances.

I've always felt that if Terri is responsible that she alone is responsible and that whatever happened to Kyron happened as a reult of a moment of enraged behavior by Terri. She may even have been drinking that morning, thereby not daring to call 911 or take him to a hospital. Perhaps she dumped him rather quickly and then drove around to calm herself before going to the gym to put in an appearance, as was normal for her.

But if any of this happened, or anything else involving Terri, she will never confess. From what I believe about her psyche (from what we have heard) she does not admit to anyt wrongdoing.

I think if Kyron is found, it will be by chance and not by a search team. And if Terri si convicted, it will be a circumstantial case, she won't testify, so we still won't really know the facts of that day.

 

[txsvicki]

Kaine has come out to the media and said that he believes that Terri has an undiagnosed personality disorder. If she does, then she might not have to snap. Mothers who are narcissistic usually have a golden child and a scapegoat who gets all the blame. Narcissists project onto others what bad they see in themselves, and will do it to kids. Who knows if Terri really has anything wrong at all though.

 

[Michael25]

IMO, this seems to be the result of what happens when there's a perfect storm and the central figure already has a tendency for poor, selfish decisions. I think there's something to KH's mental disorder suggestion, and I do think that plays a factor here. Some people just don't process things in a way that most of us would understand. I believe such an example is TH.

 

[DreamyEye]

I'm sticking this in here with the "SNAPPED" issue because I don't know where else it would go. I don't think TH snapped because it appears that too much planning went into whatever happened to Kryon. It seems more cold-blooded to me, than a case of someone "losing it" and "snapping."

Have read about the sext messages and how LE may be providing KH with information about things like the MFH plot (so it might not be a thin excuse or a ruse LE is using--but something they are collecting evidence on) ... I am starting to think that this possibly happened because Kyron had seen something, heard something, or found out something about TH's doings ... and she didn't want him to tell anyone. Interesting that if Kyron's day had gone as planned, he would have been taken to DY and spent a weekend with the Y's. What "bombshell" might Kyron have dropped if he got away from TH? That's what I'm wondering now.

 

[grayjay]

Sure. She had all the ingredients of a major mid-life crisis. She felt like a smart, strong, sexy young woman on the inside, but on the outside everything was sliding the other way. The cute little boy was no longer who he had been, either. And he was also a constant reminder to her of what she could not control, plus he was so much like his dad. I don't think she snapped all at once, but she reached overload on the resentments and she couldn't shake them off.

 

[32beatspersecond]

Kaine has come out to the media and said that he believes that Terri has an undiagnosed personality disorder. If she does, then she might not have to snap. Mothers who are narcissistic usually have a golden child and a scapegoat who gets all the blame. Narcissists project onto others what bad they see in themselves, and will do it to kids. Who knows if Terri really has anything wrong at all though.

This is a good time for me to interject because I grew up with a narcissistic father and I have seen a lot of similarities in the behaviors of Terri. I have one major issue though that really undermines the whole narcissist/sociopath theories and that is the alleged abuse of alcohol and substances. We are talking about personality types that thrive on control and an inflated self image. The use, or abuse, of alcohol or mind altering substances goes against principle for these types because they would not be comfortable in an emotional state where something else is " in control " and they would avoid it at all costs...now what does that mean for this case and our image of Terri?

txsvicki hit the nail on the head - "Narcissists project onto others what bad they see in themselves"...

Now think about all that Terri has been accused of being and refer back to the source.
I spent most of my childhood thinking my mother was cold and inaffectionate only to find out she had been forced to bottle up and compartmentalize the horrors of being raped and pregnant at 16 and giving up her daughter. My dad condemned her diligently for years holding her responsible for his childrens behavioral issues and his infidelities. It is how the narcissist shields himself. he cuts off your limbs and beats you with them. I met my older sister when I was 28 years old - long after they had divorced and my mother sought therapy.

 

[citigirl]

This is a good time for me to interject because I grew up with a narcissistic father and I have seen a lot of similarities in the behaviors of Terri. I have one major issue though that really undermines the whole narcissist/sociopath theories and that is the alleged abuse of alcohol and substances. We are talking about personality types that thrive on control and an inflated self image. The use, or abuse, of alcohol or mind altering substances goes against principle for these types because they would not be comfortable in an emotional state where something else is " in control " and they would avoid it at all costs...now what does that mean for this case and our image of Terri?

txsvicki hit the nail on the head - "Narcissists project onto others what bad they see in themselves"...

Now think about all that Terri has been accused of being and refer back to the source.
I spent most of my childhood thinking my mother was cold and inaffectionate only to find out she had been forced to bottle up and compartmentalize the horrors of being raped and pregnant at 16 and giving up her daughter. My dad condemned her diligently for years holding her responsible for his childrens behavioral issues and his infidelities. It is how the narcissist shields himself. he cuts off your limbs and beats you with them. I met my older sister when I was 28 years old - long after they had divorced and my mother sought therapy.

I agree with you--the alcohol problem does not go along with what I know about narcissism. She does sound like she could be depressed also, or bipolar. I would love to hear from one of our professionals whether people with narcissistic personality disorder commonly have problems with alcohol. I imagine a psych evaluation will try to pin down a diagnosis, as that's when my husband's ex was given her diagnosis of borderline personality disorder.

 

[gwenabob]

I'm not sure I get what you two are saying. Alcoholism is a disease. One cannot control how alcohol will affect oneself. The only 100% way not to become an alcoholic is to never take a drink. I see no reason why narcissists would have any more control over whether they become an alcoholic than any other person. My guess would be they have just as high or higher rate of alcohol/drug abuse. They just use it as a handy excuse for their bad behavior. JMO.

 

[Frigga]

Just from my own personal experience- several of the narcissists in my extended family are total alcoholics, two of them are big pot smokers also. I don't think there's a correlation necessarily but I also don't think having a personality disorder such as narcissism prevents someone from being a substance abuser either. JMPO

 

[Emma Peel]

IMO, the "disappearing" of Kyron was intricately planned - premeditated and calendared for the science fair day - a festive, distracting, unscheduled & confusing day at a school full of strangers with all sort of possible witnesses to witness exactly what the abductor wanted them to witness.

Don't know who did it, but if Terri disappeared Kyron, or at least planned it, then it was not because Terri lost her temper that day or even in those past 48 hours and snapped. Terri lost it a long long time ago, IMO. I'll add that we might look to that winter departure of Terri's older son from the family home to help estimate how long the family had been experiencing parenting difficulties of one sort or another. IMO, J's departure from the family homestead was the first externally visible casualty in the house of Horman. :cow:

 

[mmmagique]

I agree with you--the alcohol problem does not go along with what I know about narcissism. She does sound like she could be depressed also, or bipolar. I would love to hear from one of our professionals whether people with narcissistic personality disorder commonly have problems with alcohol. I imagine a psych evaluation will try to pin down a diagnosis, as that's when my husband's ex was given her diagnosis of borderline personality disorder.

Did Diane Downs drink? I thought she did.

 

[mmmagique]

IMO, the "disappearing" of Kyron was intricately planned - premeditated and calendared for the science fair day - a festive, distracting, unscheduled & confusing day at a school full of strangers with all sort of possible witnesses to witness exactly what the abductor wanted them to witness.

Don't know who did it, but if Terri disappeared Kyron, or at least planned it, then it was not because Terri lost her temper that day or even in those past 48 hours and snapped. Terri lost it a long long time ago, IMO. I'll add that we might look to that winter departure of Terri's older son from the family home to help estimate how long the family had been experiencing parenting difficulties of one sort or another. IMO, J's departure from the family homestead was the first externally visible casualty in the house of Horman. :cow:

This is what I think as well. (and have since the beginning. thank you!)

 

[Pensfan]

Patients with a substance-abuse disorder are more likely than other patients to be diagnosed with a personality disorder. Boderline and antisocial personality disorders are the most common personality disorders found in substance-abusing samples.

Rounsaville, R. J., Kranzler, H.R., Ball, S., Tennen, H., Poling, J., & Triffleman, E. (1998). Personality disorders in substance abusers: Relation to substance use. Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease, 186, 87-95.