West of Memphis

[reedus23]

You're way off base on all counts.

How so?

Cliett/Hollis: After the arrests.
George: After the arrests.
Bearden: After the arrests.
Jennifer Sanders: After the arrests.
Stacy Sanders: After the arrests.
McKay: After the arrests.
Joe Hutchison: After the arrests.
Michelle Echols: After the arrests.

The only one that I can tell they interviewed prior to the arrests is Damien's mom, Pam. I don't care what their answers were, the fact that they never even tracked these people down and interviewed them prior to the arrests is enough to case a shroud of doubt over the entire investigation. On the flip side, do you care to guess how many times they spoke to little Aaron Hutcheson whose story changed and got grander every time the poor kid spoke?

 

[kyleb]

The only one that I can tell they interviewed prior to the arrests is Damien's mom, Pam.

You missed a few, but you can find their names in this overview of the various claims of alibis.

I don't care what their answers were

Well of course you don't care about such facts, they'd get in the way of the "shroud of doubt" you're attempting to cast "over the entire investigation". On that note, trying to obscure the fact that West of Memphis flagrantly contradicts Jenifer Beardon's '93 taped interview and '04 affidavit by conjuring in Aaron Hutcheson demonstrates quite the reach.

 

[reedus23]

You missed a few, but you can find their names in this overview of the various claims of alibis.


Well of course you don't care about such facts, they'd get in the way of the "shroud of doubt" you're attempting to cast "over the entire investigation". On that note, trying to obscure the fact that West of Memphis flagrantly contradicts Jenifer Beardon's '93 taped interview and '04 affidavit by conjuring in Aaron Hutcheson demonstrates quite the reach.

No kyle, you don't get it. For all I care, they could have implicated the three in the murders instead of providing alibis and I would still say it was a flawed investigation. Bottom line, it was a complete failure to not interview these people, just as with Hobbs, before any arrests were made. There names were known or easily discoverable and yet the WMPD failed to act.

Also, I never said Aaron Hutcheson had anything to do with Bearden herself. What he has to do with is the inept investigation that was occurring at the time. Regardless of how many contradictions her statements contain, it is pitiful that she wasn't interviewed prior to the arrests yet someone like little Aaron is interviewed multiple times.

 

[reedus23]

You missed a few, but you can find their names in this overview of the various claims of alibis.

You're right. They did talk to Domini about the earlier time frame leading up to cutting the grass. But that adds another person they failed to interview prior to the arrests...Hubert Bartoush. They also spoke to Ms. Sanders, but again, highlights how they failed to follow up on that interview until after the arrests. Let me know if there were more regarding Damien. Obviously, I haven't touched on how they failed to interview Gail or Terry Grinnell regarding Jason's whereabouts.

 

[kyleb]

You failed to notice three people police talked to regarding pre-arrest claims of alibis and you even went so far as to claim police didn't talk do someone who they did, and did so despite the fact that all the relevant information is right there on the page I'd linked no less. It seems you'd condemn the police for not chasing smoke and mirrors to the ends of the Earth in an attempt to establish legitimate alibis for three and still condemn them for the arrests regardless of how fruitless such lines of investigation proved though, so such details are of little interest to you, eh?

 

[reedus23]

You failed to notice three people police talked to regarding pre-arrest claims of alibis and you even went so far as to claim police didn't talk do someone who they did, and did so despite the fact that all the relevant information is right there on the page I'd linked no less. It seems you'd condemn the police for not chasing smoke and mirrors to the ends of the Earth in an attempt to establish legitimate alibis for three and still condemn them for the arrests regardless of how fruitless such lines of investigation proved though, so such details are of little interest to you, eh?

Why be so vague? Why not tell me who I missed. I openly admitted that I missed or didn't include Teer or Sanders. Are you speaking of Cliett, who they did speak to early on, but not about phone calls or alibis. Oh, and I'm not reading that other website. I cam up with Teer and Sanders myself, if you care to add more, I am open to having left someone off the list.

You call it smoke and mirrors. I call it doing their job. And yes, I do have criticisms of how they did their job. Just the ones I've listed already is problematic to me. And I never said to try to attempt to establish legitimate alibis. What they should have been doing is trying to discover the truth and failing to interview those individuals and people like the Grinnell's and Hobbs tells me they did a poor job of it.

 

[kyleb]

I openly admitted that I missed or didn't include Teer or Sanders.

Doh, I overlooked your mentioned of Ms. Sanders. That leaves two. again one of whom you claim police didn't talk to but they did.

What they should have been doing is trying to discover the truth

That's what they did, but some people can't handle the truth.

 

[gheckso]

Why be so vague? Why not tell me who I missed.

That leaves two. again one of whom you claim police didn't talk to but they did.

Falls on deaf ears. Why not just tell him who you're talking about instead of playing games?

 

[kyleb]

I've always been fond of that old saying about how giving a man a fish only helps him eat for a day.

 

[gheckso]

Then I guess we won't hear you ask for help on locating information from now on?

I'd hate to use that old saying about the pot and the kettle.

 

[kyleb]

I already pointed out where the information can be found, and that along with the saying you bring up reminds me of this song.

 

[reedus23]

Doh, I overlooked your mentioned of Ms. Sanders. That leaves two. again one of whom you claim police didn't talk to but they did.


That's what they did, but some people can't handle the truth.

Cliett/Hollis: After the arrests.
George: After the arrests.
Bearden: After the arrests.
Jennifer Sanders: After the arrests.
Stacy Sanders: After the arrests.
McKay: After the arrests.
Joe Hutchison: After the arrests.
Michelle Echols: After the arrests.

I'm sorry but where did I say they only spoke to Susan Sanders after the arrests? Much less Teer?

 

[reedus23]

I already pointed out where the information can be found, and that along with the saying you bring up reminds me of this song.

You really don't like to discuss the issues do you? I really hope your website pays you for each mention. If not, you really need to hit them up.

 

[kyleb]

I'm sorry but where did I say they only spoke to Susan Sanders after the arrests? Much less Teer?

Nowhere that I know of.

You really don't like to discuss the issues do you?

I'd like to discuss the contradiction between what WoM shows Bearden saying and her '93 interview transcript '04 affidavit say, seeing as how WoM is the topic of this thread, and that's why I don't put much effort into humoring your attempts to to drag the discussion off topic.

I really hope your website pays you for each mention.

I don't have a website, and it would be against my principles to accept money for promoting those of others. Furthermore, if you're alluding to WM3 Truth: there's no ads there for anyone to make money from.

 

[reedus23]

I'd like to discuss the contradiction between what WoM shows Bearden saying and her '93 interview transcript '04 affidavit say, seeing as how WoM is the topic of this thread, and that's why I don't put much effort into humoring your attempts to to drag the discussion off topic.

Fair enough. Carry on.

 

[kyleb]

Well it's not much of a discussion as long as I'm the only one here he wants to talk about it. However, I have dug up some more information on the claims of Echols having been on the phone with Beardon, so I might as well add it here. Inquisitor Inc.'s timeline lists the earliest mention of the claim being in a 7/1 interview with Ron Lax, which has Echols putting the call at 7:45 to 9:15. Then there's Inquisitor Inc.'s document list which notes Ron lax interviewing Beardon and Holly George on 8/1 and mentions a phone call, but provides no further details. However, they apparently mentioned not being able to contact Echols during the time he claimed he'd spoke with them, since one entry in the timeline says:

8:00 p.m. Jennifer Bearden Calls Damien's home; grandmother says he's not in; try back around 9:00 [9/10/93 Jennifer Bearden Interview, D.A. 9/22/93, page 181]. Damien confirms this occurred, but states he was at his home with Domini So he asked his mother to tell anyone who called he was not home. [8/7/93 GJS memo Damien Echols Interview].

Yet Echols putting Teer at his house that evening contradicts all of his documented claims of alibi I've found both before and since that 8/7 interview with Gloria Shettles, and also contradicts those of family who claim they were with them at their house. Anyway, I don't expect anyone here will want to acknowledge such facts, but I figured I'd put them down for the record.

Oh yeah, the Inquisitor Inc. timeline also mentions a 5/10 statement from Holly George which puts her on the phone with Beardon and Echols at 3:30, but with Echols at his house rather than Baldwin's. Shame that isn't on Callahan.

 

[reedus23]

Well it's not much of a discussion as long as I'm the only one here he wants to talk about it. However, I have dug up some more information on the claims of Echols having been on the phone with Beardon, so I might as well add it here. Inquisitor Inc.'s timeline lists the earliest mention of the claim being in a 7/1 interview with Ron Lax, which has Echols putting the call at 7:45 to 9:15. Then there's Inquisitor Inc.'s document list which notes Ron lax interviewing Beardon and Holly George on 8/1 and mentions a phone call, but provides no further details. However, they apparently mentioned not being able to contact Echols during the time he claimed he'd spoke with them, since one entry in the timeline says:


Yet Echols putting Teer at his house that evening contradicts all of his documented claims of alibi I've found both before and since that 8/7 interview with Gloria Shettles, and also contradicts those of family who claim they were with them at their house. Anyway, I don't expect anyone here will want to acknowledge such facts, but I figured I'd put them down for the record.

Oh yeah, the Inquisitor Inc. timeline also mentions a 5/10 statement from Holly George which puts her on the phone with Beardon and Echols at 3:30, but with Echols at his house rather than Baldwin's. Shame that isn't on Callahan.

I'm more than happy to. I'll want to go back through and read each of their statements or interviews again with particular attention to the times. I know we had this discussion once already when I first started posting here. I hope to get a response by this weekend.

 

[reedus23]

I'd like to discuss the contradiction between what WoM shows Bearden saying and her '93 interview transcript '04 affidavit say, seeing as how WoM is the topic of this thread, and that's why I don't put much effort into humoring your attempts to to drag the discussion off topic.

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but your gripe with West of Memphis is that it has her saying/reading:

"several times...she had been on the phone with Damien Echols & Jason Baldwin during the afternoon after school and until about 9:30pm".

Yet the language you complain of comes straight from the police report:

SHE INFORMED ME OF SEVERAL TIMES WHEN SHE HAD BEEN ON THE PHONE WITH DAMIEN AND JASON DURING THE AFTERNOON AFTER SCHOOL AND UNTIL ABOUT 9:30 PM ON THE EVENING OF 050593.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jenbreport.html

It sounds to me like the biggest complaint you should have is with the sloppy report prepared by the WMPD. If you want to complain about how West of Memphis was edited, feel free. I won't stop you. I also understand they do have to edit or condense things or else it would be a year long movie if they included every single statement.

Also, what is inaccurate about that statement? According to her, she was on the phone several times with Damien and Jason and all of those phone calls did take place between roughly 3:30 and 9:30. Do you think it gives the impression she was on the phone the entire time? If so, I don't think the producers can control the fact that others are reading more into than is there.

 

[reedus23]

By the way, that image you posted seems to be wrong, though I will admit maybe I missed something. First, can you point to me where the prosecution placed the murders as happening between 6:30 and 8:30? Thank you. Second, I thought Damien and Jason did claim to be together in the late afternoon, up until Jason went to cut his uncle's grass and Damien and Domini went to the laundromat to be picked up. Finally, there is nothing inconsistent with her subsequent statement and the report she read from on West of Memphis as your picture thing would make out.

 

[reedus23]

Oh yeah, the Inquisitor Inc. timeline also mentions a 5/10 statement from Holly George which puts her on the phone with Beardon and Echols at 3:30, but with Echols at his house rather than Baldwin's. Shame that isn't on Callahan.

I don't know if it was a typo, but her 9/10 interview says she was on the phone with Bearden and Echols in a three way telephone conversation that last a few minutes that was described as occurring around 3:00 to 4:00 and also described as having occurred around 3:30. Though I couldn't find it in George's statement(it could be there and I missed it), Bearden does say Echols was at home during this conversation. Consistent with George, Bearden says that her, George and Echols had a three way telephone conversation that began somewhere around 3:30 to 4:00. That shortly into that conversation, Holly had to get off the phone and when she called back, Damien asked her to call him at Jason's. It was at this point, some time between 4:15 and 5:30, that Bearden called Damien again at Jason's and she spoke to both Jason and Damien.