what are your thoughts now? *re-re-poll*

[mlc9852]

There are a lot of unanswered questions, no doubt her drinking- at all- with primary care of 3 young children, and one a sick baby, was idiotic. I truly think she is just grasping for words to what she feels may have happened. If I am right and she did not harm her baby, then she is trying to make sense of what happened. She probably feels incredibly irresponsible, and she should. Even though it wasn't her fault. I've been watching her cry- I do not believe she is faking or grieving an accidental death, and I also find it hard to believe that a woman with a record of taking impeccable care of her children, would sell or hurt one of them purposefully.

-All IMO-

Still leaves the cadaver dog.

 

[Karmaa]

Susan Smith was a nut, who kills their children for a man? AND I didn't see the same grief on her face. Ever. Andrea Yates was overwhelmed, alone and over medicated.
IMO

This was accidental or a kidnapping IMO.

BBM
This is the only thing I have seen you write that I disagree with. I can't believe that it could be an accidental death (at least not one involving the parents.) There is absolutely NO REASON that good, loving parents would try to cover up an accident. Especially not these parents, who obviously trusted LE and the authorities completely (at least till they figured out that LE is not their friend).

Clearly if this was an accident, Debbie would have had to have help disposing of the body. I feel pretty sure that you, and I, and 99.99999% of the people posting on this site would agree that if someone asked us to help hide a baby's body, we would freak out and call the cops ourselves. So, why would people immediately suspect that these seemingly normal people would not react the exact same way that most of us would?

Other than that, great thinking! I am enjoying your clear, open-minded posts.

 

[Steely Dan]

I think the mother did it.

The hit with the cadaver dog, DB's statement that she was afraid to look behind the house because she was "afraid of what she might find," and the failed polygraph are factors.

When confronted by the media she said she's "grieving." That's a word specific to something that is presumed to be lost forever: a person, a relationship, an object that has sentimental value. She doesn't expect to see her daughter again because she knows the kid is gone permanently.

She refuses to let the other two be interviewed by police to find their missing sister but she takes them trick-or-treating in front of the cameras? Really? It's like she's trying to do some grotesque imitation of the Gosselins or the Duggars; trying to turn this into her own trashy reality show.

I think she was blacked out drunk, she did something that killed the girl and is trying to cover it up by saying she was kidnapped.

That's pretty much what I think too.

I think they were bamboozled by a glory-seeking attorney.

I think you're right and unfortunately it's really hurt the chances of finding out what really happened. (If they don't already know.)

 

[powayparent]

BBM
This is the only thing I have seen you write that I disagree with. I can't believe that it could be an accidental death (at least not one involving the parents.) There is absolutely NO REASON that good, loving parents would try to cover up an accident. Especially not these parents, who obviously trusted LE and the authorities completely (at least till they figured out that LE is not their friend).

Clearly if this was an accident, Debbie would have had to have help disposing of the body. I feel pretty sure that you, and I, and 99.99999% of the people posting on this site would agree that if someone asked us to help hide a baby's body, we would freak out and call the cops ourselves. So, why would people immediately suspect that these seemingly normal people would not react the exact same way that most of us would?

Other than that, great thinking! I am enjoying your clear, open-minded posts.

I agree it's not a normal or common reaction but these are things I've considered:

- They may have thought they'd each lose custody of their other child
- DB may have thought JI would leave her if he knew she accidentally killed their child
- A young adult might cover for their brother or sister after being told the death would cause the loss of the other children.
- A neighbor might help their good friend

 

[21merc7]

I have to stick with I have no clue.

Because I am surrounded with crime and how quickly it can occur, regardless of the situation and people present, I just have no clue.

It would be neat and tidy to think Mom did something - accidentally or not, or someone in the home, whilst Mom was intoxicated.

Usually crimes are not so neat and tidy.

I have suspected Mom, Dad, anyone in the home, anyone in the neighborhood. Since LE is not sharing, and the stories from the 'hood grow more and more like a "'hood", I am left wondering.

May revise at a later date.

 

[mlc9852]

The media may not be always reliable, but they seldom get the facts wrong.

I feel so sick of this couple. This couple has been trying hard not to help in the investigation.

The media do get the "facts" wrong. I have heard many reporters refer to JI as the "husband". NG keeps saying Lisa is ten months old - she is now eleven months. I have read reports that JB was coming home from work and reports that he was on his way to work. I have read JI worked to 3:45 am and arrived home at 3:45 am. There have been differing accounts of where
SB lives - next door, across the street, down the street. There have been different accounts of where LP lives - down the street but she actually lives one street over. I have heard JJP say there was a 2:30 am phone call from one of the phones and I have heard others say there was only an 8-8:30 pm call. I have heard reports that PB slept at the home and I have heard reports denying that.

I could go on but you get my point. Unless I hear it from LE with my own ears, I don't necessarily believe it and even LE doesn't always tell the truth. Attorneys certainly don't tell the truth.

 

[dillysmom11]

This is the only thing I have seen you write that I disagree with. I can't believe that it could be an accidental death (at least not one involving the parents.) There is absolutely NO REASON that good, loving parents would try to cover up an accident.

I actually agree with that... I can't explain why they *would*, except for maybe powayparent's post above... panic?

 

[Steely Dan]

I actually agree with that... I can't explain why they *would*, except for maybe powayparent's post above... panic?

I could see a drunk mother dropping her baby and being too scared to call the police. JMO

 

[BritsKate]

I've missed your emus, SD!

My only problem with the accident/cover up scenario is that I think the hope of your baby being able to be resuscitated would outweigh the fear of personal culpability.

JMHO

 

[Steely Dan]

I've missed your emus, SD!

My only problem with the accident/cover up scenario is that I think the hope of your baby being able to be resuscitated would outweigh the fear of personal culpability.

JMHO

She could have been so drunk she dropped the kid and walked away and fell asleep and when she woke up, or was awakened, she discovered the dead child next to it's crib. So rather than face public scorn and parental negligence charges she/they came up with the kidnap story. JMO

 

[Boodles]

My thoughts now are to hell with these "parents" (they don't deserve that title IMO).

Convene an investigational grand jury post haste, i.e., Monday, and haul the boys and whoever else is needed in front of that grand jury.

DB and JI have had way too many chances. There is no excuse for them. It is glaringly obvious that they are involved in hiding information which can only mean they are complicit.

And when this is all said and done, I hope whatever $ they have made from their "exclusives" is less that what they will owe the State for search and investigation expenses.

Pathetic does not begin to describe these two.

 

[BritsKate]

She could have been so drunk she dropped the kid and walked away and fell asleep and when she woke up, or was awakened, she discovered the dead child next to it's crib. So rather than face public scorn and parental negligence charges she/they came up with the kidnap story. JMO

I feel ya, Steely. :rocker:

But then she undoes it, imo, by facing public scorn, ridicule, and possible negligence charges for openly admitting on national television she was drinking potentially to blackout status and does so regularly. Many lost sympathy for her when she claimed such.

That's where I fall off again. IMO, she said that because what really happened was worse than that; she received truly horrendous advice to openly admit that or she really is so naive that she cannot comprehend she is doing a lot to make herself appear guilty of something. Even if she isn't.

This case is gonna make me crazy. And a month later we still don't know where Lisa is.

 

[JeannaT]

FOR THE FENCE SITTERS:

(this seems to be the most logical place to put this post)

I had a huge epiphany this morning, and I think it might resonate. I thought, why in the world am I ALWAYS a fence sitter? Why do I seem to be ALWAYS on the fence? (because it's true, I am, and many posters here in this thread usually are too).

And the answer came to me clear as day: I'm not always a fence sitter. In fact, I'm rarely a fence sitter. I'm just not that interested in cases where guilt or innocence is obvious. So there are a lot of threads I never, ever post in, because they don't capture my attention.

So I think that's the answer. There are posters who enjoy stories where they are certain the person is guilty, and there are posters who enjoy cases where they are taking in evidence and considering.

My guess is, that holds true for the other fence sitters here. So you get a reputation of not being able to make up your mind, or a reputation for thinking everyone is innocent, when that's not true at all - in fact you just simply don't post on topics where you believe you know who is guilty. Because those cases don't capture your imagination.

Make sense?

 

[NancyA]

FOR THE FENCE SITTERS:

(this seems to be the most logical place to put this post)

I had a huge epiphany this morning, and I think it might resonate. I thought, why in the world am I ALWAYS a fence sitter? Why do I seem to be ALWAYS on the fence? (because it's true, I am, and many posters here in this thread usually are too).

And the answer came to me clear as day: I'm not always a fence sitter. In fact, I'm rarely a fence sitter. I'm just not that interested in cases where guilt or innocence is obvious. So there are a lot of threads I never, ever post in, because they don't capture my attention.

So I think that's the answer. There are posters who enjoy stories where they are certain the person is guilty, and there are posters who enjoy cases where they are taking in evidence and considering.

My guess is, that holds true for the other fence sitters here. So you get a reputation of not being able to make up your mind, or a reputation for thinking everyone is innocent, when that's not true at all - in fact you just simply don't post on topics where you believe you know who is guilty. Because those cases don't capture your imagination.

Make sense?

I'm on the fence about this theory... :wink:

Seriously, you made me pause and think about what draws me in and, more importantly, keeps me engaged in a given case and my conclusion is - it's hard to define. Sorry, I guess that's not too helpful and I hate to squash your theory so early on (hey, on the bright side, maybe I'm the exception to the rule which proves your theory) but there is only one other case in which I have been very active and also been on the fence about and that was Kyron's.

All the other cases I have most participated in (and I'm probably not the best subject for comparisons because it's truly only a handful) I've been very much on the 'guilty' side and there are many that I don't post on but lurk and read avidly where I am convinced of the 'preferred' suspect's innocence.

 

[artzypantz]

after reading about the very similar 11 month old baby kidnapping when db was living at fort brag (?) and the mom was guilty of hiding her dead baby in the attic, i am seriously saying that LE should take those dog(s) in there again & then search high & low thru that house & yard for baby lisa or more evidence. They should also do a paternity test to see if JI is the babys dad imo.

My fence hopping list:

*drinking/blackout drunk
*really very similar case where db used to live (copy cat)
*DB stating she never wants to return to that house where the baby went missing......why? will there be a bad smell as the neighbors reported in the similar case at ft brag(?) where DB used to live?
*sometimes odd or off behaviors of both parents

i think i hopped the fence

artzypantz

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Here we have a sweet, innocent baby, fgs, whose very life is at risk and the baby's parents refuse to give law enforcement the information they need to be able to find her?

Isn't that the same as the parents declaring that their lives are more important to them than their baby's? And their sons' well-being has also topped Baby Lisa's very life . . . God forbid the sons might be further traumatized.

 

[Abby Normal]

I'm always a fence sitter until the forensic evidence is revealed. For me that's just the most logical approach to take.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

BBM
This is the only thing I have seen you write that I disagree with. I can't believe that it could be an accidental death (at least not one involving the parents.) There is absolutely NO REASON that good, loving parents would try to cover up an accident. Especially not these parents, who obviously trusted LE and the authorities completely (at least till they figured out that LE is not their friend).

Clearly if this was an accident, Debbie would have had to have help disposing of the body. I feel pretty sure that you, and I, and 99.99999% of the people posting on this site would agree that if someone asked us to help hide a baby's body, we would freak out and call the cops ourselves. So, why would people immediately suspect that these seemingly normal people would not react the exact same way that most of us would?

Other than that, great thinking! I am enjoying your clear, open-minded posts.

Since being a member here, I have found that "seemingly normal" people often aren't.

aside from that we also have the possible "issues" of:

1)shock

2)alcohol

3)the casey anthony factor--sociopathy

 

[4Jacy]

My thoughts now are to hell with these "parents" (they don't deserve that title IMO).

Convene an investigational grand jury post haste, i.e., Monday, and haul the boys and whoever else is needed in front of that grand jury.

DB and JI have had way too many chances. There is no excuse for them. It is glaringly obvious that they are involved in hiding information which can only mean they are complicit.

And when this is all said and done, I hope whatever $ they have made from their "exclusives" is less that what they will owe the State for search and investigation expenses.

Pathetic does not begin to describe these two.

Thank you so much!! This is my theory exactly and you put it so well. I, too, am so sick of these "parents."

 

[MaryAnn]

Here we have a sweet, innocent baby, fgs, whose very life is at risk and the baby's parents refuse to give law enforcement the information they need to be able to find her?

Isn't that the same as the parents declaring that their lives are more important to them than their baby's? And their sons' well-being has also topped Baby Lisa's very life . . . God forbid the sons might be further traumatized.

Maybe they don't have the information! Maybe they have said all they know. It is a possibility. If DB were that drunk which I would suspect she was, I bet she can't remember a thing. Mixing alcohol and pills is not only dangerous, but it magnifies the effects of the alcohol dramatically. I'm sure she was beyond wasted. This I do hold against her!! No one should get drunk when they are the only adult supervising children. I think Little Lisa was kidnapped and DB knows it's her fault because she was blacked out. JMO