What do we know about hair decomp ***REVISITED***

[yankeesbelle04]

I was always under the impression that DNA found from hair could not ever be called an absolute match, just a close match or consistent with a match? I have watched enough Forensic Files to know that this is what they say.. So how could they say that the hair in the trunk was Caylees? If anyone has info on dna from hair, please post! Would love some clarification.. This case is making me second guess everything!

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I concur... LE has not made a statement that Caylee's hair had the root-banding.
Again - I'm living on the fence.

I would not "bet the farm" on that. It has been told there was banding. Do I have a link......nope, but you will find out.

 

[Spring2]

I was always under the impression that DNA found from hair could not ever be called an absolute match, just a close match or consistent with a match? I have watched enough Forensic Files to know that this is what they say.. So how could they say that the hair in the trunk was Caylees? If anyone has info on dna from hair, please post! Would love some clarification.. This case is making me second guess everything!

All the rest of the Anthony family whose DNA would be similar to that of Caylee's, they are all still alive. So if the bands are present on that hair, and it came from someone who was not alive, the conclusion can be drawn that it's Caylee's.

 

[CHICANA]

I concur... LE has not made a statement that Caylee's hair had the root-banding. They said they found her hair and the totality of forensic evidence (some of which they have not revealed) leads them to believe she is deceased. Conversly someone made a good point the other day that LE would lose credibility if they were "baiting" the POI's and the public with leading everyone to believe she was deceased when they don't have definitive proof otherwise. However - since we are not privy to ALL of the information that LE has the possibility does exist (no matter how big or small) that maybe they have their reasons for this and could provide valid arguments for taking those steps to find her alive.

Again - I'm living on the fence.

I agree completely. There's no way to know for sure what they have. My hunch is they don't have much and they know they'd lose even more credibility if 2 cadaver dogs and a detective 'said' there was a dead body in the trunk and there wasn't.
I think the whole deal with the trunk is too clean and easy. She could dumped that car somewhere or pushed it in a pond or lake or burned it.

Even if she didn't think about it at the time, it sat there 3 days.
I'm on the fence too, even if she wasn't in the trunk, it doesn't mean she's still alive.

 

[yankeesbelle04]

All the rest of the Anthony family whose DNA would be similar to that of Caylee's, they are all still alive. So if the bands are present on that hair, and it came from someone who was not alive, the conclusion can be drawn that it's Caylee's.

Thats not what I meant, unless I am more confused than I thought! What I meant is that they cannot possibly conclude that the hair is Caylee's hair, just a close match.. DNA evidence from hair is not a probability it is a possibility as you will read in this link..http://www.crimeandclues.com/hair_evidence.htm

 

[FootballMom]

I would not "bet the farm" on that. It has been told there was banding. Do I have a link......nope, but you will find out.

The only thing I've heard are suggestions by members of the media that Caylee's hair has the banding. I cannot in good conscience state that they are correct or inaccurate in their statements.

IIRC the question was posed to a forensic scientist as to whether or not a determination of death can be made based on the analysis of hair. Since LE stated they believe that she is deceased and that they did find her hair in the trunk I can certainly see how this connection was made...

Again - we are not privy to all the evidence and to date LE has not verified or corrected the media and the public's assumptions of the connection... not that they are required to, I'm just saying....

However - if and when the scientific evidence is provided (in court or via official documents) that Caylee's hair did in fact have the root-banding then I will move swiftly to the side of science. I'm not a big believer in hear-say, it causes more damage than most anything.

 

[yankeesbelle04]

The only thing I've heard are suggestions by members of the media that Caylee's hair has the banding. I cannot in good conscience state that they are correct or inaccurate in their statements.

IIRC the question was posed to a forensic scientist as to whether or not a determination of death can be made based on the analysis of hair. Since LE stated they believe that she is deceased and that they did find her hair in the trunk I can certainly see how this connection was made...

Again - we are not privy to all the evidence and to date LE has not verified or corrected the media and the public's assumptions of the connection... not that they are required to, I'm just saying....

However - if and when the scientific evidence is provided (in court or via official documents) that Caylee's hair did in fact have the root-banding then I will move swiftly to the side of science. I'm not a big believer in hear-say, it causes more damage than most anything.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

The forensic analysis of hair has been accepted in courts of law for many years, but this does not necessarily validate the science. The reliability of hair examinations must be weighed with the education and training of the examiner, as well as with the procedures used in the analysis. The examinations must be objective and impartial, and the weight placed on the results must be in accordance with the experience and training of the examiner.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/jan2004/research/2004_01_research01b.htm

 

[yankeesbelle04]

The forensic analysis of hair has been accepted in courts of law for many years, but this does not necessarily validate the science. The reliability of hair examinations must be weighed with the education and training of the examiner, as well as with the procedures used in the analysis. The examinations must be objective and impartial, and the weight placed on the results must be in accordance with the experience and training of the examiner.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/jan2004/research/2004_01_research01b.htm

This is what I could find in this link about linking hair to a specific individual :

"Human hair identifications are subjective interpretations of objective criteria. The variability and distribution of the microscopic characteristics are useful in determining whether or not a questioned hair could have originated from a particular individual.

It is recognized that hair comparisons do not constitute a basis for absolute personal identification. Whereas hairs cannot be positively identified as originating from a particular individual, it is unusual to find different people having the same hair characteristics. This is based on evidentiary samples received in casework and on proficiency tests prepared in the laboratory. "

I do not think that hair could ever be considered an ABSOLUTE dna match...Maybe if there are extenuating circumstances.

Still hoping...

 

[TURBOTHINK]

The forensic analysis of hair has been accepted in courts of law for many years, but this does not necessarily validate the science. The reliability of hair examinations must be weighed with the education and training of the examiner, as well as with the procedures used in the analysis. The examinations must be objective and impartial, and the weight placed on the results must be in accordance with the experience and training of the examiner.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/jan2004/research/2004_01_research01b.htm

I believe that is why they had U.T. Anthropology Body Farm do it. Their research has never been disproved or even disputed in court.

I believe that is why they had them involved from the beginning.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

This is what I could find in this link about linking hair to a specific individual :

"Human hair identifications are subjective interpretations of objective criteria. The variability and distribution of the microscopic characteristics are useful in determining whether or not a questioned hair could have originated from a particular individual.

It is recognized that hair comparisons do not constitute a basis for absolute personal identification. Whereas hairs cannot be positively identified as originating from a particular individual, it is unusual to find different people having the same hair characteristics. This is based on evidentiary samples received in casework and on proficiency tests prepared in the laboratory. "

I do not think that hair could ever be considered an ABSOLUTE dna match...Maybe if there are extenuating circumstances.

Still hoping...

In order to discount the hair, you have to also discount the fluids, blood, dirt and other things they found in the trunk which had Caylee's DNA.

 

[yankeesbelle04]

In order to discount the hair, you have to also discount the fluids, blood, dirt and other things they found in the trunk which had Caylee's DNA.

I'm sorry, I thought that the only dna evidence was the hair..please, post the link.. I never heard anything about dna results on anything else..Please, again, post this link, I have to read it (I'm being serious, not sarcastic!).. Thanks!

 

[SUR]

I'm sorry, I thought that the only dna evidence was the hair..please, post the link.. I never heard anything about dna results on anything else..Please, again, post this link, I have to read it (I'm being serious, not sarcastic!).. Thanks!

I would like to see that link as well proving they have proof of any of those things.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

I believe that is why they had U.T. Anthropology Body Farm do it. Their research has never been disproved or even disputed in court.

I believe that is why they had them involved from the beginning.

Do you have a link? Bcause my understanding is that the body farm only preformed the air test. And I have yet to find any documentation on this being used in a court case or proof that this is a reliable test. I know the body farm is top notch when it comes to working with decomp human bodies, so I would love to see where the air sample test was used in a court of law.

 

[yankeesbelle04]

And I would love to see the link where it indicates that the fluids and dirt and blood tested positive for Caylee's DNA.. Heck, I never knew that they found actual blood! Whatever they found was only referred to as "fluids", unless like I said, I missed that article..Please post it, because it would make things a bit clearer for me, and might change my hope that she is still alive into belief she is no longer here.

 

[SUR]

And I would love to see the link where it indicates that the fluids and dirt and blood tested positive for Caylee's DNA.. Heck, I never knew that they found actual blood! Whatever they found was only referred to as "fluids", unless like I said, I missed that article..Please post it, because it would make things a bit clearer for me, and might change my hope that she is still alive into belief she is no longer here.

I don't think there is such a link.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/M....jsp?contentId=7473949&version=1&locale=EN-US

 

[Boston]

There is something odd about that post on craigslist. First, the exact same thing has been posted a lot of different places besides craigslist. Second, they say they have sent this to interpol? Why interpol instead of the FBI or local LE? And no link to the picture?

I think this is the craigslist link you were looking for.
http://orlando.craigslist.org/vnn/790048891.html

I saw that as well - There is some kind of connection to Liver Pool, England

I think thats why he's saying Interpol instead of the FBI

 

[magic-cat]

On the debate about the hair and if it had root banding or simply signs of decomposition, here is a link detailing a report or email that specifies the hair had "the dead mans ring".
http://www.wesh.com/video/20229004/index.html

At approximately 30 seconds into the video it specifies "dead mans ring" so I think that clearly ends the debate on whether or not their was root banding, right?

 

[magic-cat]

Bumpity bump...

Right? Anyone???

 

[Tuffy]

On the debate about the hair and if it had root banding or simply signs of decomposition, here is a link detailing a report or email that specifies the hair had "the dead mans ring".
http://www.wesh.com/video/20229004/index.html

At approximately 30 seconds into the video it specifies "dead mans ring" so I think that clearly ends the debate on whether or not their was root banding, right?

I must have missed it, I didn't hear them talk about "dead mans ring" at 30 seconds in. What did they say?

I believe one of the forensics results stated that the hair was found with signs of decomposition at the proximal root. I believe the death band is the sign of decomposition found on hair at the proximal root. I don't think there is any other sign. Does anyone know if it wasn't the banding, what was it?

ETA- when I tried searching for other signs of decomp on hair. Using the terms, "sign of decomposition found on hair at the proximal root" all the hits referred to hair banding.

I'm hoping someone else might have better luck.