What do you think about the West Memphis Three?

[IzzyBlanche]

Can you provide some insight into his extensive mental health history? And was that before the killings, after the killings while incarcerated and currently while being free for the last years? Thanks.

Before.

This is from a document apparently in response to some action by DE's lawyers.

Evidence -- mitigating circumstances -- jury did not
arbitrarily refuse to find that appellant Echols had no
significant history of criminal activity. -- The jury did not
arbitrarily refuse to find that appellant Echols had no
significant history of criminal activity where Echols admitted
on cross-examination in the penalty phase of the trial that he
had an altercation with his father in which a knife was
involved and the police were called; where he admitted that he
was hospitalized that same day and that when his father came
to the hospital, "I told him I would eat him alive"; where he
admitted that he tried "to claw the eyes out" of a student;
and where a psychologist who testified for Echols admitted
that Echols had "an all-powerful God-like image of himself,"
that his parents were concerned with his satanism or devil
worship, and that Echols's medical records included notations
of statements by Echols pertaining, among other things, to his
rage and the drinking of the blood of others.

Damien Echols v. State of Arkansas

Damien Echols v. State of Arkansas

law.justia.com

 

[branmuffin]

Before.

This is from a document apparently in response to some action by DE's lawyers.

Evidence -- mitigating circumstances -- jury did not
arbitrarily refuse to find that appellant Echols had no
significant history of criminal activity. -- The jury did not
arbitrarily refuse to find that appellant Echols had no
significant history of criminal activity where Echols admitted
on cross-examination in the penalty phase of the trial that he
had an altercation with his father in which a knife was
involved and the police were called; where he admitted that he
was hospitalized that same day and that when his father came
to the hospital, "I told him I would eat him alive"; where he
admitted that he tried "to claw the eyes out" of a student;
and where a psychologist who testified for Echols admitted
that Echols had "an all-powerful God-like image of himself,"
that his parents were concerned with his satanism or devil
worship, and that Echols's medical records included notations
of statements by Echols pertaining, among other things, to his
rage and the drinking of the blood of others.

Damien Echols v. State of Arkansas

Damien Echols v. State of Arkansas

law.justia.com

Which father? He's had several both biological and through marriage.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Which father? He's had several both biological and through marriage.

I don't know, but what does it matter?

Edited: Honest question, not intended to be snarky.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Innocent of murder. I think this was just another example of Satanic Panic

 

[branmuffin]

I don't know, but what does it matter?

Edited: Honest question, not intended to be snarky.

It matters a lot. He's had several stepfathers at different points in his life and had varied relationships with them.

 

[branmuffin]

Here's a declaration from one of the stepfather's DE had in his life. Echols is the once who formally adopted Damien. I think he was a fairly young boy at the time and lived with Echols until his mother divorced him. Based on the information in this declaration it sounds to me that DE had some issue that was left undiagnosed for a very long time. He sounds like he had a horrible childhood. Not because his parents were mean or violent towards him but because there were so many kids - half siblings, full siblings from various relationships his mother had and like what happens in many families that struggle economically combined with parents with low or no education he was left to fend for himself.

Declaration of Andy Jack Echols

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Here's a declaration from one of the stepfather's DE had in his life. Echols is the once who formally adopted Damien. I think he was a fairly young boy at the time and lived with Echols until his mother divorced him. Based on the information in this declaration it sounds to me that DE had some issue that was left undiagnosed for a very long time. He sounds like he had a horrible childhood. Not because his parents were mean or violent towards him but because there were so many kids - half siblings, full siblings from various relationships his mother had and like what happens in many families that struggle economically combined with parents with low or no education he was left to fend for himself.

Declaration of Andy Jack Echols

Thank you for posting this. I notice he doesn't mention that Michelle accused him of sexual abuse, that Pam thought she was lying, and that Damien held him in low regard because he believed Michelle was telling the truth.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Until fairly recently, influenced by the Paradise Lost movie, I was in the camp that the WM3 were railroaded by LE with tunnel vision who settled immediately on DE simply because he dressed all in black and listened to heavy metal music.

Then I listened to some podcasts that made me go hmm. Digging further, I just finished reading the first hundred pages or so of the trial exhibit consisting of DE's psychological report and here are a few tidbits:

1. DE says sometimes he "blows up" with rage and when this happens, "the only solution is to hurt someone."

2. DE says he attains power by drinking the blood of others, something he's done since age 10. He wants to be all powerful and a spirit is living inside him. He has conversations with demons and spirits.

3. DE cut his girlfriend's name into his arm.

4. While he was in a detention center, he reportedly grabbed a peer and began sucking blood from the person's neck. Said he did it to get into a gang.

5. DE threatened to kill his (bio) father and also threatened to eat him.

6. He admitted to trying to enucleate a peer's eye at school and setting a fire in his science classroom.

7. He agreed with statements, "Evil spirits possess me at times," "I am afraid of losing my mind," and "I have strange and peculiar thoughts."

8. As of 1/20/1993, he had had three psychiatric hospitalizations "associated with anger, thoughts of killing others and thoughts of killing himself."

To me this is something more than just a harmless misunderstood kid wrongfully accused because he wore black and listened to heavy metal music.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

It's laughable to me that in Paradise Lost 2, the murderer was clearly John Mark Byers.

Then in episode 3, the murderer was clearly Terry Hobbs.

I don't think any of these movies were made to try to find the truth, but instead to distort the truth and thereby continue to profit off the unimaginable suffering of three young boys.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

It matters a lot. He's had several stepfathers at different points in his life and had varied relationships with them.

From what I've read I believe it was his bio father, but it might have been his adopted father. I can't say for sure.

Either way, I don't understand why it matters which father he threatened. The problem is whoever it was, he threatened them.

 

[branmuffin]

Thank you for posting this. I notice he doesn't mention that Michelle accused him of sexual abuse, that Pam thought she was lying, and that Damien held him in low regard because he believed Michelle was telling the truth.

I think that Michael Hutchison, aka Damien Echols, changed his name to Damien because he was reading the novel The Exorcist. I think it would be the type of novel that would make a huge impact on an impressionable youth who probably never felt he had his own identity being one of numerous children in a couple of blended families where you became anonymous. The name Damien was the name of the priest in the Exorcist who was a Jesuit having a crisis of faith, he was not a devil or demon. I think the name Damien is associated with the devil because of another novel and movie (The Omen) about a young boy who was the devil incarnate.

Here's another website that mentions a very convoluted situation where a young girl told a teacher that Michelle, Damien's sister told her that Damien and a boy called Mike Elinburg murdered the three boys. It was a screw up from the getgo when even the police officers investigating the case misidentified Damien Echols as Mike Elinburg. The whole hysteria surrounding the killings and the belief even by investigating LE that otherworldly evil was responsible for the killings really affected how the story was presented as a lurid sex killings by devil worshippers which whet the appetite of the public domain. I think it was terrible police work, imo.

...:::Murders In West Memphis:::...

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I think that Michael Hutchison, aka Damien Echols, changed his name to Damien because he was reading the novel The Exorcist. I think it would be the type of novel that would make a huge impact on an impressionable youth who probably never felt he had his own identity being one of numerous children in a couple of blended families where you became anonymous. The name Damien was the name of the priest in the Exorcist who was a Jesuit having a crisis of faith, he was not a devil or demon. I think the name Damien is associated with the devil because of another novel and movie (The Omen) about a young boy who was the devil incarnate.

Here's another website that mentions a very convoluted situation where a young girl told a teacher that Michelle, Damien's sister told her that Damien and a boy called Mike Elinburg murdered the three boys. It was a screw up from the getgo when even the police officers investigating the case misidentified Damien Echols as Mike Elinburg. The whole hysteria surrounding the killings and the belief even by investigating LE that otherworldly evil was responsible for the killings really affected how the story was presented as a lurid sex killings by devil worshippers which whet the appetite of the public domain. I think it was terrible police work, imo.

...:::Murders In West Memphis:::...

Might you have a source for "the belief even by investigating LE that otherworldly evil was responsible for the killings"?

Also do you have any response to what I wrote in the post you quoted, to wit: Michelle accused him of sexual abuse, that Pam thought she was lying, and that Damien held him in low regard because he believed Michelle was telling the truth?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

It's pretty clear to me that DE had a horrific childhood.

And I also think he and the other two are guilty.

Jessie Misskelley confessed over and over and over. One confession that he recanted, I could possibly accept as coerced.

But he also confessed to a prosecutor and to his own lawyer and in another situation even after his own lawyer begged him not to.

I stress that I too used to think they were innocent, until I stopped relying on what the documentaries said and started reading actual documents relating to the case.

 

[Crunchy Riff]

In this world who knows,but I think they are innocent,and the fact they were singled out by looks alone is disturbing.

At that age I personally would have been singled out,as the only shirts I wore were death metal t shirts.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

In this world who knows,but I think they are innocent,and the fact they were singled out by looks alone is disturbing.

At that age I personally would have been singled out,as the only shirts I wore were death metal t shirts.

But they weren't singled out by looks alone. If you have evidence that confirms that, I will gladly eat crow.

 

[branmuffin]

Might you have a source for "the belief even by investigating LE that otherworldly evil was responsible for the killings"?

Also do you have any response to what I wrote in the post you quoted, to wit: Michelle accused him of sexual abuse, that Pam thought she was lying, and that Damien held him in low regard because he believed Michelle was telling the truth?

I have read numerous articles where the overarching theory of many individuals is that it was believed that DE was a satanist because he wore all black, he wrote weird poetry, he listened to heavy metal, he stated he practiced black magic, etc. When you keep reading reports that keep stating those things, whether accurate or not, they become baked into the narrative of DE. LE are not immune to those statements and beliefs. As a matter of fact, I believe that many LE officers who grew up in evangelical homes temper their law enforcement processes with a little black magic of their own. To wit: writing reports that continue to mention the satanist aspects of the killings even though there is really no evidence whatsoever at the crime scene. I am not alone in thinking along these lines.

https://scholarworks.utrgv.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1060&context=cj_fac

It’s Time to Revisit the Satanic Panic (Published 2021)

As the United States shifted with the anxieties of the 1980s, baseless conspiracy theories about satanic cults committing mass abuse spread around the country.

www.nytimes.com

As far as the claims of SA by Michelle, I haven't read anything about that. I don't know if she is referring to her biological father or her adoptive father or even subsequent step father after Echols. Who is Michelle referring to? Her mother divorced both husbands and took her daughter and Damien with her when she left Hutchison. I believe she divorced her third husband, too.

 

[herb4]

It's laughable to me that in Paradise Lost 2, the murderer was clearly John Mark Byers.

Then in episode 3, the murderer was clearly Terry Hobbs.

I don't think any of these movies were made to try to find the truth, but instead to distort the truth and thereby continue to profit off the unimaginable suffering of three young boys.

Byers was actually a good suspect and well worth looking at. So is Terry Hobbs for that matter

Also: "Damien" is a character from The Omen, not the Exorcist like Izzy said.

And that long list of mental health concerns Izzy posted is all well and good but none of it is evidence of having committed this crime. It's evidence of a mentally ill teenager but none of that is relevant to this case.

I've listened to a few podcasts (several of rather dubious nature) myself and nothing I heard would be enough to sway me that the WM3 are guilty. Not sure why Izzy thinks they're not allowed to link a podcast?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Byers was actually a good suspect and well worth looking at. So is Terry Hobbs for that matter

Also: "Damien" is a character from The Omen, not the Exorcist like Izzy said.

And that long list of mental health concerns Izzy posted is all well and good but none of it is evidence of having committed this crime. It's evidence of a mentally ill teenager but none of that is relevant to this case.

I've listened to a few podcasts (several of rather dubious nature) myself and nothing I heard would be enough to sway me that the WM3 are guilty. Not sure why Izzy thinks they're not allowed to link a podcast?

Father Damien is a character in the Exorcist.

Podcasts are generally not approved sources here on Websleuths.

 

[CuriousWhiskers]

As someone who previously believed that they were innocent, I now believe that there is more information supporting their guilt (primarily DE), which has already been discussed in this thread. I don't think that there was enough for a conviction, however. This case is so sad. Whoever did this should be rotting in prison, and they are not. I enjoyed Pat Brown's assessment of the case on Youtube. All MOO. Rest in peace, boys.

 

[branmuffin]

Might you have a source for "the belief even by investigating LE that otherworldly evil was responsible for the killings"?

Also do you have any response to what I wrote in the post you quoted, to wit: Michelle accused him of sexual abuse, that Pam thought she was lying, and that Damien held him in low regard because he believed Michelle was telling the truth?

I can't provide information that I haven't seen. I think that DE was a perfect patsy for the murders. He obviously had mental health issues but so do about 18% of the American public and those 57 million plus have not been murdering children, drink blood or espousing Wiccan views. When people have a tendency to believe the worst about individuals with mental health difficulties it bleeds into every segment of the social order of a country. It bleeds into LE, the justice system, the school system, religious organizations, the prison system where the percentage of inmates in jails hovers around 44 percent and around 20 percent in federal prisons. Undiagnosed individuals have a much rougher go with it and I can see how someone like DE, who was poor, and marginalized suffering from an undisclosed mental illness could take on the persona of someone who was a mystic, an other worldly person who supposedly liked to drink blood. It was a persona that could scare the hell out of people so they would leave him alone. Even John Douglas, the pre-eminent forensic analyst thought they'd been railroaded. Ironically, people can believe a statement without evidence in one case but believe a charge without evidence in another.

To me, when it comes to Damien Echols, I believe he's a pathological liar. He lies about everything. But he lied long before he was charged with murder. Most of lies seem to be fabricated to paint himself as a dangerous person, kind of like certain insect species that have warning coloration to keep predators at bay.