What does Kolar say about

[tezi]

In my opinion, it was a case of scripted CYA and arrogance.

Exactly, and then when they started getting slammed for it, who did they blame? Fleet White....

JMO, IMO, :moo:

 

[Nehemiah]

I guess this info regarding B/Doug's morning conversation may in part be why Doug was questioned by the Grand Jury. There has been much speculation as to why and this gives us a glimpse into that reasoning.

 

[dodie20]

You know, I think there's an element here that's getting lost in the cold, hard light of day.

Siblings fight. Sometimes quite brutally. That doesn't result in all of them going on to be adult abusers. Usually parents bring training and socializing into the equation, and that's how we learn.

It's also hard for parents to supervise children every minute of every day, after all. And does that mean being present, at their side, every second? I don't think that's realistic for any parent, and maybe unhealthy going to another extreme.

In truth, it's probably a miracle most of us reach adulthood, considering the nature of children in general.

The reason there is an age limit on charging a child with a crime is called "intent": if a child's brain development and experience are at a stage where the child has no ability to truly grasp the reality of death or its finality, they can't be accused of meaning to end the life of someone. A child also cannot be held accountable for miscalculating strength and resulting injury in a fast growing body. Now factor in just pure accident, which even we adults sometimes have.

In these days of videogames, I wonder if even older children aren't confused about what being "dead" means, as the characters just start over in a new game.

If Burke was in some way involved in the series of events that night, what I find incriminating for the Ramseys are the older injuries, especially the prior molestation. If they knew about that, even if neither of them was the perpetrator, then it was their duty to protect JonBenet AND Burke.

Clearly they failed miserably there.

I've wondered how much PR's illness affected her parenting. Was she so busy trying to not die, that she stepped away from the role? or did she let the stress of her illness affect her parenting? What's weird, is that whatever happened that night, not one peep has been said about any trouble since then. Didn't BR go off to college? and it looks like he is doing ok. In an interview before JR's book came out, he said something about how if something happened to BR, he didn't know if he could go on...like B was his only reason for living. I thought this was weird, because #1, he has other kids, so where do they fit in? and #2, he had already lost 2 children and his wife, and I felt this minimized their deaths. Anyway, I thought the whole statement was strange and desperate, (and self serving?), and wondered if he was subconciously referencing a bond between him and B. Honestly, I wondered if B knew something that he didn't want out. MOO

 

[DeeDee249]

I've wondered how much PR's illness affected her parenting. Was she so busy trying to not die, that she stepped away from the role? or did she let the stress of her illness affect her parenting? What's weird, is that whatever happened that night, not one peep has been said about any trouble since then. Didn't BR go off to college? and it looks like he is doing ok. In an interview before JR's book came out, he said something about how if something happened to BR, he didn't know if he could go on...like B was his only reason for living. I thought this was weird, because #1, he has other kids, so where do they fit in? and #2, he had already lost 2 children and his wife, and I felt this minimized their deaths. Anyway, I thought the whole statement was strange and desperate, (and self serving?), and wondered if he was subconciously referencing a bond between him and B. Honestly, I wondered if B knew something that he didn't want out. MOO

Well, I think it's a given that BR knows something he doesn't want out.
When his sister was dead just a few days he said in an interview that he "just wanted to get on with his life". Obviously he did. Guilty or not, surrounded by that "wall" of lawyers and corrupt DAs, there was no reason why he shouldn't. And it continues to this day.

 

[azwriter]

You know, I think there's an element here that's getting lost in the cold, hard light of day.

Siblings fight. Sometimes quite brutally. That doesn't result in all of them going on to be adult abusers. Usually parents bring training and socializing into the equation, and that's how we learn.

It's also hard for parents to supervise children every minute of every day, after all. And does that mean being present, at their side, every second? I don't think that's realistic for any parent, and maybe unhealthy going to another extreme.

In truth, it's probably a miracle most of us reach adulthood, considering the nature of children in general.

The reason there is an age limit on charging a child with a crime is called "intent": if a child's brain development and experience are at a stage where the child has no ability to truly grasp the reality of death or its finality, they can't be accused of meaning to end the life of someone. A child also cannot be held accountable for miscalculating strength and resulting injury in a fast growing body. Now factor in just pure accident, which even we adults sometimes have.

In these days of videogames, I wonder if even older children aren't confused about what being "dead" means, as the characters just start over in a new game.

If Burke was in some way involved in the series of events that night, what I find incriminating for the Ramseys are the older injuries, especially the prior molestation. If they knew about that, even if neither of them was the perpetrator, then it was their duty to protect JonBenet AND Burke.

Clearly they failed miserably there.[/QUOTE]

Kold, Wonderful post. The statement I bolded means so much for this case. As I see it, Patsy knew about the prior sexual abuse Burke did with his little sister. I believe she caught him at it and went nuts. She yelled and screamed at him and boldly told him Never to do that again.

She didn't go further, maybe not even telling John immediately. From what I read about Pasty's feeling as to what she went through with her treatment for her cancer, she was very uncomfortable with sex. I recall that she was upset and concerned with a particular treatment where a "cone" type instrument was placed in her vagina. That says to me that she not only was uncomfortable with a sex topic, it was difficult for her to even speak about it.

I doubt she would tell even her best friends about what was going on between Burke and JonBenet. I think she would hope and pray just her words to forbid him to ever do it again would be enough to stop it. And it was a good way for her to avoid discussing the subject. Except maybe with JonBenet's doctor.

And we come to Christmas night and her daughter is dead. And Burke was once again doing what he was strongly scolded about and told never to do again. And, his reaction to being caught again would have resulted in strinking her and pulling that rope he would have been using in what he thought was playing so as to not be caught again.

Can you imagine the guilt Patsy must have felt! Here was the ultimate most terrible outcome, she would have never expected. Her guilt would push her to cover up for Burke and therefore cover up that she never did more to put a stop to this behavior. The shock, the grief of losing her daughter, and the shame and guilt I do believe would prompt Patsy beyond even what she would ever imagine she could do to cover up what occured that night. She was probably out of her mind and in a panic.

This doesn't excuse her IMO, but I think it would give her the overwhelming motive to protect her son and herself. To her it was worth everything she did that night to cover it all and hide the awful truth.

She went so far as to do things to her daughter that she thought nobody would suspect a parent would do to a child they appeared to love so much. What was done to JonBenet to cover was so horrible, she knew that was the only way to turn the blame away from family members. These people would never go that far!

Add in a ramson note with a far fetched motive by some far out intruders from a foreign area and you have a blueprint to explain why there is a dead child in their basement. A location where the child was placed which would put a dead body as far away from the family's living space as possible without leaving the home.

If there had been an accident, certainly these parents would have rushed their child to the emergency room. But I do believe it was what was being done by Burke in this situation that would stop them in their tracks, especially when they must have thought JonBenet was dead at the home and the sexual abuse evidence could be found on her body.

I have given Patsy reaction and personal parenting skills a great deal of thought. I'm not giving her and John a pass but I am trying to understand how she would have viewed this tragedy and the outcome of how it would look to LE and the public.

jmo

 

[UKGuy]

Well, I think it's a given that BR knows something he doesn't want out.
When his sister was dead just a few days he said in an interview that he "just wanted to get on with his life". Obviously he did. Guilty or not, surrounded by that "wall" of lawyers and corrupt DAs, there was no reason why he shouldn't. And it continues to this day.

DeeDee249,
ITA. And with Kolar declining to point a finger directly at Burke is all I need to know!

Also Burke's prior knowledge about JonBenet's injuries, even before any autopsy had taken place, seals the deal.


I reckon Burke will have ordered a copy of Kolars book, LW will be running his eye over it, just in case he can litigate.

I also reckon Burke and DS will be scanning the forums, to see what is being said, could be that we might have another Ramsey Documentary appearing soon?



.

 

[txsvicki]

In looking at pics of an o track it seems jonbenet would almost have to have been stabbed or poked very hard with one on her back instead of just lying across a track. Is the mark on her cheek thought to be from the same type track? I thought her cheek almost looked like a screwdriver imprint and noticed on a website selling train supplies that there are little connector tools that look similar to screw drivers.

 

[Bonnette]

In looking at pics of an o track it seems jonbenet would almost have to have been stabbed or poked very hard with one on her back instead of just lying across a track.

That's what I'm thinking, too. If she had simply lain across the track, the whole imprint would likely have been visible. These marks make me wonder if the pins of the track might even have been heated before being pushed against her skin, end-on. What you say about the connector tools and her cheek wound is very interesting.

I can't remember where I saw it, but there is an earlier photo of JBR standing in a doorway in a red dress - one of her shins bears an imprint that looks just like these marks. If those earlier marks exactly duplicate the pattern present at the time of her death (i.e., distance between spots), that could suggest at least one prior contact with the same object - or it might support the idea of repetitive abuse.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Well, I think it's a given that BR knows something he doesn't want out.
When his sister was dead just a few days he said in an interview that he "just wanted to get on with his life". Obviously he did. Guilty or not, surrounded by that "wall" of lawyers and corrupt DAs, there was no reason why he shouldn't. And it continues to this day.

I'm sorry, but I don't think "getting on with his life" is a phrase that he concocted himself at 9 years of age. Prove to me that wasn't coached.

I get the fact that he was an unusual child, but I think he's being thrown under the bus on the scantiest of evidence.

I think if he had knowledge of the crime, it is more likely because someone shared it with him or he was a witness.

I have read the book from cover to cover, and although he doesn't provide his case theory in the book, it's pretty obvious where he's going....what isn't obvious is how he eliminated the other suspects in the house.

While I think the book was effective in knocking down the DNA, window entry, and the ransom note, I still don't think we have THE TRUTH.

 

[otg]

You know, I think there's an element here that's getting lost in the cold, hard light of day.

Siblings fight. Sometimes quite brutally. That doesn't result in all of them going on to be adult abusers. Usually parents bring training and socializing into the equation, and that's how we learn.

It's also hard for parents to supervise children every minute of every day, after all. And does that mean being present, at their side, every second? I don't think that's realistic for any parent, and maybe unhealthy going to another extreme.

In truth, it's probably a miracle most of us reach adulthood, considering the nature of children in general.

The reason there is an age limit on charging a child with a crime is called "intent": if a child's brain development and experience are at a stage where the child has no ability to truly grasp the reality of death or its finality, they can't be accused of meaning to end the life of someone. A child also cannot be held accountable for miscalculating strength and resulting injury in a fast growing body. Now factor in just pure accident, which even we adults sometimes have.

In these days of videogames, I wonder if even older children aren't confused about what being "dead" means, as the characters just start over in a new game.

If Burke was in some way involved in the series of events that night, what I find incriminating for the Ramseys are the older injuries, especially the prior molestation. If they knew about that, even if neither of them was the perpetrator, then it was their duty to protect JonBenet AND Burke.

Clearly they failed miserably there.

Kold, Wonderful post. The statement I bolded means so much for this case. As I see it, Patsy knew about the prior sexual abuse Burke did with his little sister. I believe she caught him at it and went nuts. She yelled and screamed at him and boldly told him Never to do that again.

She didn't go further, maybe not even telling John immediately. From what I read about Pasty's feeling as to what she went through with her treatment for her cancer, she was very uncomfortable with sex. I recall that she was upset and concerned with a particular treatment where a "cone" type instrument was placed in her vagina. That says to me that she not only was uncomfortable with a sex topic, it was difficult for her to even speak about it.

I doubt she would tell even her best friends about what was going on between Burke and JonBenet. I think she would hope and pray just her words to forbid him to ever do it again would be enough to stop it. And it was a good way for her to avoid discussing the subject. Except maybe with JonBenet's doctor.

And we come to Christmas night and her daughter is dead. And Burke was once again doing what he was strongly scolded about and told never to do again. And, his reaction to being caught again would have resulted in strinking her and pulling that rope he would have been using in what he thought was playing so as to not be caught again.

Can you imagine the guilt Patsy must have felt! Here was the ultimate most terrible outcome, she would have never expected. Her guilt would push her to cover up for Burke and therefore cover up that she never did more to put a stop to this behavior. The shock, the grief of losing her daughter, and the shame and guilt I do believe would prompt Patsy beyond even what she would ever imagine she could do to cover up what occured that night. She was probably out of her mind and in a panic.

This doesn't excuse her IMO, but I think it would give her the overwhelming motive to protect her son and herself. To her it was worth everything she did that night to cover it all and hide the awful truth.

She went so far as to do things to her daughter that she thought nobody would suspect a parent would do to a child they appeared to love so much. What was done to JonBenet to cover was so horrible, she knew that was the only way to turn the blame away from family members. These people would never go that far!

Add in a ramson note with a far fetched motive by some far out intruders from a foreign area and you have a blueprint to explain why there is a dead child in their basement. A location where the child was placed which would put a dead body as far away from the family's living space as possible without leaving the home.

If there had been an accident, certainly these parents would have rushed their child to the emergency room. But I do believe it was what was being done by Burke in this situation that would stop them in their tracks, especially when they must have thought JonBenet was dead at the home and the sexual abuse evidence could be found on her body.

I have given Patsy reaction and personal parenting skills a great deal of thought. I'm not giving her and John a pass but I am trying to understand how she would have viewed this tragedy and the outcome of how it would look to LE and the public.

jmo

Excellent posts, KK and AZ. I for one agree with every word in these posts.
.

 

[otg]

In looking at pics of an o track it seems jonbenet would almost have to have been stabbed or poked very hard with one on her back instead of just lying across a track. Is the mark on her cheek thought to be from the same type track? I thought her cheek almost looked like a screwdriver imprint and noticed on a website selling train supplies that there are little connector tools that look similar to screw drivers.

Perhaps that is the "stabbing" that BR referred to in his interview with the psychologist. Because he had mentioned a knife in the cellar (which was found) and stabbing, we all connected the two and thought he was wrong about that detail. Actually though, if she was poked or stabbed with a train track, he was right about each of the details he mentioned: quietly taken to basement, a knife was used, she was stabbed (or poked), and she was hit over the head. He was correct before the details were released to the public and without his parents discussing it with him. Maybe we were just wrong in thinking he meant that she was stabbed with the knife (which was used to cut the cord).
.