What evidence does the prosecution have?

[AJ Noiter]

I live in Mississippi, and the law states that your VEHICLE is an extention of your home, thus you can carry in your vehicle without a permit. WITH a permit, you can carry virtually anywhere unless it is otherwise stated (bars, casinos, etc)

I was discussing SYG laws with someone in another location and it struck me as odd that in my state you can use a firearm in self defense no matter where you're at or if you have a permit, but if you need a permit to carry. Kinda strange in my opinion lol

 

[Sun48shine]

[/B]

I thought that most states don't allow people to use guns as self defense, outside of your homes.

WHAT? Seriously? I don't mean this as an insult, but a genuine question - do you live in the US?[/QUOTE]


I live in Maryland. Our gun laws are very strict. Most people have a hard time getting guns legally in Maryland. We can't use guns as a self defense weapon outside of our homes.

 

[AJ Noiter]

JMO/IMO
1. GZ's head is much, much larger than a cataloupe.
2. Cantaloupes don't fight back at all
3. Cataloupes aren't connected to a large neck, and a 185 lb body.
4. Grasping and hanging onto a large human hairless head isn't easy in the least. If this imagined scenario had happened, the head would have far more than a couple of teeny scratch boo-boos that quit bleeding almost immediately. (No blood on clothes, no blood at the police station....)

You can do the same with a watermelon, which can be much, much larger than a human head. Or a pumpkin, etc.
We don't know the specifics of where Mr. Martin was on Mr. Zimmerman's body when he was doing this, so it's hard, at least for me, to speculate on whether or not he could have fought back.
I didn't think you'd need to lift the 185lbs to get the head a few inches off the ground. The neck is really a pretty weak structure, from what I understand of it.
As I've stated before, even on the enhanced photos all you get is a smudge. I can't really make an opinion of the injuries or the lack of blood based on that.

 

[AngelWings444]

Go to the store, pick up a cantalope, slam it on the counter. Do you have any bruises?

You would have a cracked cantaloupe, smooshed, gooey, seeping, bruised. None of which listed, appear on GZ's "cantaloupe". :what:

GZ's head is much bigger than a cantaloupe. IMO

 

[AJ Noiter]

I live in Maryland. Our gun laws are very strict. Most people have a hard time getting guns legally in Maryland. We can't use guns as a self defense weapon outside of our homes.

You mean the laws found unconstitutional a couple months ago?

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/03/05/md-gun-law-found-unconstitutional/

 

[Phoenixfla]

My state of Maryland is not on there. Maryland is very strict on people using guns as self defense. We had a case a few years ago where a man caught someone trying to steal his tires. He shot them, but he ended up in jail.

Stealing tires is theft, not self defense.

 

[cityslick]

JMO/IMO
1. GZ's head is much, much larger than a cataloupe.
2. Cantaloupes don't fight back at all
3. Cataloupes aren't connected to a large neck, and a 185 lb body.
4. Grasping and hanging onto a large human hairless head isn't easy in the least. If this imagined scenario had happened, the head would have far more than a couple of teeny scratch boo-boos that quit bleeding almost immediately. (No blood on clothes, no blood at the police station....)

The discussion seems to be that TM should have bruises on his hands if he was knocking GZ's head. That is not an accurate statement.

 

[Gin]

You can do the same with a watermelon, which can be much, much larger than a human head. Or a pumpkin, etc.
We don't know the specifics of where Mr. Martin was on Mr. Zimmerman's body when he was doing this, so it's hard, at least for me, to speculate on whether or not he could have fought back.
I didn't think you'd need to lift the 185lbs to get the head a few inches off the ground. The neck is really a pretty weak structure, from what I understand of it.
As I've stated before, even on the enhanced photos all you get is a smudge. I can't really make an opinion of the injuries or the lack of blood based on that.

JMO
The larger the surface area, the more difficult to grasp.

Pick up a tennis ball? easy.
Pick up a watermelon? not easy.

The whole head bang, diapers, spoon fed by the bro scenario isn't in the least credible to me....I saw Z...he looked fine, nice clean clothes, walked normally-he appeared fine and dandy less than a hour after Travon was shot dead.

 

[Sun48shine]

You mean the laws found unconstitutional a couple months ago?

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/03/05/md-gun-law-found-unconstitutional/

Isn't it weird how they talk about the Maryland Gun Law being unconstitutional? Example in link -- “The Supreme Court has recognized the right to have guns in homes, but there is no right in public places,” Lowy said. “What Maryland does is reasonable. It allows law enforcement to make judgment based on substantial reasons why someone needs to carry a loaded gun in public. That’s not rationing and certainly not unconstitutional.”

 

[Phoenixfla]

I live in Maryland. Our gun laws are very strict. Most people have a hard time getting guns legally in Maryland. We can't use guns as a self defense weapon outside of our homes.

In Maryland, they do offer a consealed carry license, however the person must have a “good and substantial reason” to carry a handgun, including a finding that the permit is “necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.” The applicant has to submit a notarized letter stating the reasons why he is applying for a permit.

Someone who is licensed to carry a gun certainly CAN use a gun as a self defense weapon outside of their home. Why else would they issue a permit?

 

[Sun48shine]

Stealing tires is theft, not self defense.

But our law makers insist that people in Maryland should not use guns outside of their homes, no matter what the circumstance is.

 

[Karmady]

Isn't it weird how they talk about the Maryland Gun Law being unconstitutional? Example in link -- “The Supreme Court has recognized the right to have guns in homes, but there is no right in public places,” Lowy said. “What Maryland does is reasonable. It allows law enforcement to make judgment based on substantial reasons why someone needs to carry a loaded gun in public. That’s not rationing and certainly not unconstitutional.”

Do you realize that your quote is the losing side giving its argument about why the decision was wrong?

 

[vlpate]

In any event, what I'm seeing, and what I'm reading is making me question, even more, the concept of GZ being able to reach into his pants and pull out his gun, while TM was allegedly on top of him, beating him senseless.

GZ knew exactly where his gun was located and had probably practiced pulling it efficiently, as is recommended.
<respectfully snipped for brevity>

and a likely cause of this failure:
This is a condition we associate with something preventing the gun from cycling a fresh round from the magazine into the chamber after the shot was discharged. One thing that can cause that is another man&#8217;s hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism. This would indicate, as could certain gunshot residue patterns or cuts in certain places if found on Trayvon Martin&#8217;s hand(s), that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired.

Excellent find. It will be interesting to see where, if any, TM's prints were located on the gun.

It is my opinion that George Zimmerman had his gun drawn when this encounter began leaving Trayvon little choice but to fight for his life.

You make a good point, and it is definitely a possibility - he could have had it out already just because he didn't know where TM was or what he was up to, although I highly doubt he would have pointed it at TM just for asking him why he was following him. That, and once he had knocked GZ to the ground, why didn't he run. At the very least, he wouldn't have been struggling for the gun at that point.

JMO

 

[gxm]

How do you know what GZ's intensions were? Since he said there were several suspicious looking or acting people in recent months prior to the shooting, he may have wanted to take matters in his own hands. He may have become so frustrated with SPD that he may have decided that he was going to put an end to all suspicious looking people.

Why even call LE if he was going to take matters into his own hands? That doesn't make sense to me.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[Sun48shine]

In Maryland, they do offer a consealed carry license, however the person must have a “good and substantial reason” to carry a handgun, including a finding that the permit is “necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.” The applicant has to submit a notarized letter stating the reasons why he is applying for a permit.

Someone who is licensed to carry a gun certainly CAN use a gun as a self defense weapon outside of their home. Why else would they issue a permit?

But in Maryland, residents who have permits are still told that they cannot use a gun as a self defense weapon outside of their home.

 

[Sun48shine]

Why even call LE if he was going to take matters into his own hands? That doesn't make sense to me.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Maybe he didn't think they were really going to come after he called them.

 

[AngelWings444]

Why even call LE if he was going to take matters into his own hands? That doesn't make sense to me.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

GZ didn't call 911, he called the non-emergency number. I don't believe GZ set out to kill Trayvon, but I believe that he wasn't going to let "another @sshole get away." And, he didn't. I believe GZ is very surprised that Trayvon didn't have anything on him, wasn't on drugs, wasn't trying to break in to a place, etc..but, it was too late. JMO

ETA: Again, I think his own statements are going to be the thing that does him in. JMO

 

[AJ Noiter]

GZ knew exactly where his gun was located and had probably practiced pulling it efficiently, as is recommended.
<respectfully snipped for brevity>

Excellent find. It will be interesting to see where, if any, TM's prints were located on the gun.

You make a good point, and it is definitely a possibility - he could have had it out already just because he didn't know where TM was or what he was up to, although I highly doubt he would have pointed it at TM just for asking him why he was following him. That, and once he had knocked GZ to the ground, why didn't he run. At the very least, he wouldn't have been struggling for the gun at that point.

JMO

I just wanted to point out that if Mr. Martin knew he had a weapon he (Mr. Martin) certainly didn't tell his girlfriend about it, or she hasn't stated as much anyway. That's why I find it incredibly hard to believe that Mr. Zimmerman had his weapon out at any time prior to the conflict.

 

[MaryAnn]

WHAT? Seriously? I don't mean this as an insult, but a genuine question - do you live in the US?

I live in Maryland. Our gun laws are very strict. Most people have a hard time getting guns legally in Maryland. We can't use guns as a self defense weapon outside of our homes.[/QUOTE]

We can't in Calif. either. You cannot shoot a person on your property unless they are in your home.

I can't even imagine carrying a loaded gun at all times unless you are LE or trained Security. I think it's ridiculous! JMO

 

[AJ Noiter]

GZ didn't call 911, he called the non-emergency number. I don't believe GZ set out to kill Trayvon, but I believe that he wasn't going to let "another @sshole get away." And, he didn't. I believe GZ is very surprised that Trayvon didn't have anything on him, wasn't on drugs, wasn't trying to break in to a place, etc..but, it was too late. JMO

ETA: Again, I think his own statements are going to be the thing that does him in. JMO

As far as we know without the toxicology, anyway. I find whether or not he was on drugs to be a bit irrelevant anyway, unless it's something other than marijuana.