What evidence does the prosecution have?

[Just K]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...1zx-20120403_1_police-cruiser-squad-car-son/2

"The day after, he went into his job to let them know what
was going on," said Oliver, who has spoken to Zimmerman at least
twice since the shooting. "That is the last I know of anyone
seeing George."

Zimmerman and his wife moved out of the townhouse they
rented in the Twin Lakes complex almost immediately, Oliver
said, and they are now living in seclusion.

Yet, under oath, at the bond hearing his wife stated that she had not seen GZ "since he went into hiding."

Wonder which is true?

 

[Karmady]

Yet, under oath, at the bond hearing his wife stated that she had not seen GZ "since he went into hiding."

Wonder which is true?

I'm not seeing any conflict in those statements. Could you be more specific?

 

[suzihawk]

According to the quote in suzihawk's link in this thread, he went in to work the next day to tell them what was going on. At which point, presumably, they sent him to the doc to get cleared to work. Probably a worker's comp. issue.

Why would it be a worker's comp issue if the injuries weren't sustained while on the job?

 

[jjenny]

Why would it be a worker's comp issue if the injuries weren't sustained while on the job?

You still need documentation if you need a time off.

 

[Karmady]

Why would it be a worker's comp issue if the injuries weren't sustained while on the job?

To document that the injuries were NOT sustained on the job and that a dr. felt that continuing work would not exacerbate the injuries. SOP CYA

 

[Just K]

I'm not seeing any conflict in those statements. Could you be more specific?

This is in re: to J Oliver stating that GZ's wife went into hiding with him immediately. She says she had not seen him since "HE" went into hiding. One infers that she did not go with him.

 

[Concerned Papa]

All these injuries prove is that someone, possibly, beat George's azz.

I don't understand what evidence there's supposed to be that Trayvon instigated an attack on George. I haven't seen any, and don't think any exists. What does exist, however, seems to be witnesses who will be giving testimony that the opposite could very well have happened, leaving Trayvon to fight for his life.

• From the timeline/map illustrations I have made in this forum, it's my opinion that there will be considerable evidence of contradictory statements made by George Zimmerman particularly as it relates to the timeline of his stated path of movement and where the body was found.

• The State apparently has a witness who will testify to seeing the shadows of two people running, one chasing the other, during the time frame of this confrontation.

• The State has another witness who will testify that Trayvon asked "Why are you FOLLOWING me?"

• This witness will further testify that someone PUSHED Trayvon, breaking the phone conversation.

• The State has another witness who will testify, with reasonable scientific certainty, that the gut wrenching screams the jury will hear did NOT come from George Zimmerman.

• The State likely has a weapons/ballistics expert who will testify that the murder weapon was recovered with a FULL 7 shot magazine and an empty firing chamber, indicitive of the gun's slide mechanism being restricted causing a failure to automaticaly load a fresh shell. There could easily be direct evidence presented, and a probable demonstration, as to how this failure was likely caused by a human hand wrapped the slide mechanism while another hand held the weapon and pulled the trigger.

IMO, this is anything but a weak case being brought by the State. Can the defense attempt to discredit the testimony of these witnesses? Of course they can and will, but if George Zimmerman's storyline is shown to be as false as I believe it to be, I can't see the jury giving too much benefit of a doubt to his claims of having killed this boy in self defense.

 

[Karmady]

This is in re: to J Oliver stating that GZ's wife went into hiding with him immediately. She says she had not seen him since "HE" went into hiding. One infers that she did not go with him.

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see Oliver saying they went together. Just that they went -- separately or together -- at around the same time.

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Can you all help me with these questions?

How would TM end up with broken skin on his knuckles, unless he hit GZ in his mouth? Teeth can break the skin on knuckles. I had seen so many fights in high school, but I have never seen anyone with broken skin on their knuckles, unless they hit someone in the mouth, hit a wall or their hand hit the ground. I can understand bruising, but broken skin on his knuckles makes me wonder how it really happened?

Could TM's skinned knuckles have come from him and GZ rolling around on the ground and skinning his knuckles? Could TM have held his hands around GZ face/ears while his knuckles were down, and then started pounding GZ's head into the ground? Could his skinned knuckles have come from him falling on the ground, after being shot?

So many thoughts are going through my mind on this one.

bbm

Perhaps he skinned his knuckles trying to knock the gun out of Zimmerman's hand. Guns are hard metal and can have a sharp edge here and there.

I suspect the broken skin on Trayvon's knuckles is very minor. Otherwise the Funeral Director would have noticed it.

And I do not think the FD was lying about it. Why would he want to be labeled a liar when he knew the autopsy report would conflict with his observations and statement?

imo

 

[cityslick]

All these injuries prove is that someone, possibly, beat George's azz.

I don't understand what evidence there's supposed to be that Trayvon instigated an attack on George. I haven't seen any, and don't think any exists. What does exist, however, seems to be witnesses who will be giving testimony that the opposite could very well have happened, leaving Trayvon to fight for his life.

• From the timeline/map illustrations I have made in this forum, it's my opinion that there will be considerable evidence of contradictory statements made by George Zimmerman particularly as it relates to the timeline of his stated path of movement and where the body was found.

• The State apparently has a witness who will testify to seeing the shadows of two people running, one chasing the other, during the time frame of this confrontation.

• The State has another witness who will testify that Trayvon asked "Why are you FOLLOWING me?"

• This witness will further testify that someone PUSHED Trayvon, breaking the phone conversation.

• The State has another witness who will testify, with reasonable scientific certainty, that the gut wrenching screams the jury will hear did NOT come from George Zimmerman.

• The State likely has a weapons/ballistics expert who will testify that the murder weapon was recovered with a FULL 7 shot magazine and an empty firing chamber, indicitive of the gun's slide mechanism being restricted causing a failure to automaticaly load a fresh shell. There could easily be direct evidence presented, and a probable demonstration, as to how this failure was likely caused by a human hand wrapped the slide mechanism while another hand held the weapon and pulled the trigger.

IMO, this is anything but a weak case being brought by the State. Can the defense attempt to discredit the testimony of these witnesses? Of course they can and will, but if George Zimmerman's storyline is shown to be as false as I believe it to be, I can't see the jury giving too much benefit of a doubt to his claims of having killed this boy in self defense.

If the defense somehow proves TM was on top of GZ, hurting him, then the state loses the case IMO, I don't care what happened prior. Because then GZ has been telling the truth. That he was getting beat up. That he was fearful for his life.

There is nothing in the GF's statements that prove GZ ever instigated a fight. In fact, there is no evidence whatsoever at this time that GZ instigated a fight, whether that be swinging at TM first or trying to grab TM or anything like that. Asking a question 'what are you doing here' is not instigating a fight. It's asking a question.

 

[cityslick]

bbm

Perhaps he skinned his knuckles trying to knock the gun out of Zimmerman's hand. Guns are hard metal and can have a sharp edge here and there.

I suspect the broken skin on Trayvon's knuckles is very minor. Otherwise the Funeral Director would have noticed it.

And I do not think the FD was lying about it. Why would he want to be labeled a liar when he knew the autopsy report would conflict with his observations and statement?

imo

BBM

Who does this? What rational human being, with a gun pointed at them, trying to knock the gun out of someone's hands? Outside of someone who just wants to commit suicide?

Maybe the funeral director doesn't know what he's talking about as far as injuries is concerned because, I dunno, he's not an ME.

 

[Karmady]

bbm

Perhaps he skinned his knuckles trying to knock the gun out of Zimmerman's hand. Guns are hard metal and can have a sharp edge here and there.

I suspect the broken skin on Trayvon's knuckles is very minor. Otherwise the Funeral Director would have noticed it.

And I do not think the FD was lying about it. Why would he want to be labeled a liar when he knew the autopsy report would conflict with his observations and statement?

imo

Or maybe he's not the one who actually tended to the body other than in a supervisory kind of way. I don't know whether there are typically asst's who do the actual work. In that case he may have been "technically" telling the truth. Although you might have expected him to say something like, well, I didn't really take a close look at his hands but I didn't notice any injuries. jmo

 

[jjenny]

I have no clue why funeral director claimed he did not see any injuries. If autopsy showed injury to knuckles then obviously there was an injury to knuckles. I've yet to hear any prosecutor to argue that observation of a funeral director are more important than that of an autopsy.

 

[katydid23]

Big thing these days is getting a doctors note saying a pet is medically necessary, therefore getting a condo association to allow pets where they are prohibited.

Note that the doctor's office is located closer to Lake Mary (where his parents live) than to Sanford. His father was with him the next day for the re-enactment, I'm sure he was there for the doctor's visit. I'm sure he helped script the medical report. MOO.

You are SURE about those things? They are not just opinion or speculation, but you are certain they are fact?

 

[suzihawk]

BBM

Who does this? What rational human being, with a gun pointed at them, trying to knock the gun out of someone's hands? Outside of someone who just wants to commit suicide?

Maybe the funeral director doesn't know what he's talking about as far as injuries is concerned because, I dunno, he's not an ME.

A person whose back is against the wall with no other choice than to defend themself by whatever means possible. That's who.

Do you really think a person looking down the barrel of a gun is going to rationally stop and think, "Now hang just a second here. What are my logical choices and alternatives? I could a)... or maybe b)... would be a better alternative. Hmm... what should I do?" It's human instinct to fight back when your young life is flashing before your eyes.

:moo:

 

[Neige]

A person whose back is against the wall with no other choice than to defend themself by whatever means possible. That's who.

Do you really think a person looking down the barrel of a gun is going to rationally stop and think, "Now hang just a second here. What are my logical choices and alternatives? I could a)... or maybe b)... would be a better alternative. Hmm... what should I do?" It's human instinct to fight back when your young life is flashing before your eyes.

:moo:

When I was 16, I was held up by TWO men - one of them held a gun at me...I did exactly what they told me to do.

 

[nancdru]

FWIW and IMHO, any employer not LE (and perhaps excluding the NRA) that has an employee show up one morning and tell them that he shot and killed someone the night before under any circumstances - whether or not the employee evidenced injuries to himself - would be panicked about its own liability having that employee on its premises or acting as its agent in any capacity. Particularly if true as mentioned here previously that GZ worked as insurance claims processor, insurance companies being created for the sole purpose of protecting against all sorts of liability, that employer would cover its arse 99 ways to Sunday to make sure he didn’t come back, starting with requiring him to get medical clearance. Theoretical only of course.

 

[suzihawk]

When I was 16, I was held up by TWO men - one of them held a gun at me...I did exactly what they told me to do.

When I was strong arm robbed, I fought like hell. Adrenalin and instinct kicked in. Different strokes...

My point was that one doesn't stop to rationally think what the possible consequences might be in such a situation. Reaction is instantaneous and instinctual, IMO.

 

[jjenny]

When I was strong arm robbed, I fought like hell. Adrenalin and instinct kicked in. Different strokes...

My point was that one doesn't stop to rationally think what the possible consequences might be in such a situation. Reaction is instantaneous and instinctual, IMO.

Where is the evidence that Trayvon knew Zimmerman had a gun? Per g/f, Trayvon was first to ask Zimmerman a question. Zimmerman then asked Trayvon what Trayvon was doing there. Nothing at all about any guns. So it's all complete speculation not substantiated by any evidence, and the gun idea appears not be supported by what Trayvon's g/f said she heard.

 

[katydid23]

bbm

Perhaps he skinned his knuckles trying to knock the gun out of Zimmerman's hand. Guns are hard metal and can have a sharp edge here and there.

I suspect the broken skin on Trayvon's knuckles is very minor. Otherwise the Funeral Director would have noticed it.

And I do not think the FD was lying about it. Why would he want to be labeled a liar when he knew the autopsy report would conflict with his observations and statement?

imo

Okay, so let's go with that. Let's say that Trayvon skinned his knuckles wrestling for the gun. Would that be cause for GZ to be alarmed, if someone was trying to take the gun away from him?