What if Casey Burned The Car on June 28-29?

[Chess613]

Now we have the coffin flies, the decomp on the tissue found in the car, the air samples and the stain (which may or may not have the image of Caylee on it) - all damaging evidence from the car. I've always felt the most damaging evidence - the nail you can hang your hat on - is the Pontiac Sunfire. The death hair came from it. The coffin flies and they being in it's adult stage (and they were found on the 16th of July - and if you check out wikipedia, you'll know it can only reach its adult stage after four weeks) and the smell George and Cindy talks about all comes from it. It's the only evidence that Casey can't get away from.

But what if we didn't have the car as evidence?

June 16 - I think we're all on board that this is when Caylee died. I think Casey killed Caylee either in the Anthony home or in the trunk of the car and, instead of disposing the body immediately, went to Lazzaro's and the both of them went to Blockbuster.

June 17 - she doesn't appear to be pinging away from Lazzaro's, so she's at his place, contemplating what she did. And planning what to do next.

June 18 & 19 - this is when she borrows Brian Burner's shovels to bury the body. I think on the 19th, she discovers the body in an advanced decomposition state - messy and spilled on the carpet on the Pontiac's trunk. She wants to deal with it, but she has to leave before Cindy gets home.

June 20 - this is when I think she gets rid of the body - but this is when she starts smelling the decomp. She dumps the body but doesn't pay a lot of attention to the trunk yet. She associates the smell with the body itself. And she has to party later tonight.

June 21-22 - she stays with Tony and never deals with Pontiac.

June 23 - she gets her first whiff of the trunk and it's bad. She tries to clean it up - the first of many attempts, but fails. she runs out of gas, gets TonE to break the lock of the garage at the A's home to get the gas cans (now why would he do that I have no idea - but perhaps this is KC's way to plant a seed of evidence against him) and prevent him from getting close to the trunk of the car.

June 24 - George calls the cops regarding the gas cans and Cindy calls KC to inform her - which sends KC to the A's house to pre-empt any police activity. George sense something's wrong, and I'm very certain George smelled decomposition when he went to KC's trunk! I just can't see it any other way. After Casey leaves in a rush, Cindy and George have a very long talk about what George smelled.

June 25 - it explains why KC sends a text message to Amy regarding the smell. KC knows her parents (especially Cindy) has a habit of calling her friends and telling them about KC. So she attempts to pre-empt Cindy if she tries to call Amy regarding the smell. I know that Cindy didn't have Amy's number until mid-July, but assume KC didn't know that. She's covering ALL her tracks. She makes yet another attempt to clean the car.

June 26 - yet another attempt to clean the car - using the chemicals from the Lazzaro home - but it's not working. Another pre-empt convo with Amy regarding the smell. KC knows she HAS to get rid of the car.

June 27 - she has several ideas: a carjacking, the car being stolen, or to burn it. She fills the car up with trash to either cover up the smell or as a fuelant for the car fire. She gives the carjacking idea a try so she deliberately runs out of gas, calls TonE to pick her up, refuses his offer to fill the tank up and says George will take care of it. To me, this proves she doesn't want the car back. For the rest of the day, she makes no attempt to retrieve the car - no request for gas cans, no calls to George, etc.

June 28-29 - NOW she wants the gas cans. For what reason? and how sincere is her attempt at getting them. A call to Jesse Grund on Saturday and one call to Amy on Sunday. She coulda had the gas from TonE on Friday.

June 30 - she gets Amy to come to Amscot with the gas can. And the car is gone.

Here's what I think: she drove past the Amscot on her way to Amy KNOWING the car was already gone - she brought Amy just to bolster a testimony from Amy that KC wanted to get the car and to verify it was gone (stolen even).

But what if she burned the car? What if she wanted the gas can to fill the car up halfway to take it to a remote area, then use the rest of the gas to torch it? No evidence. Any link to Caylee's death and Casey are gone (with the exception of the decom picked up by the dogs in the backyard of the A's home. But had she burned the car, she could have made up any story she wanted: she was carjacked and the guys took Caylee afterwards; Caylee and Zenaida were visiting somewhere and they just disappeared - and my car is stolen; Zenaida took my car.. it goes on and on.

Better than that - none of it has to be tied to June 16 - the day of Caylee's death. Think about it. The only reason we know about the 16th was from KC who said she hadn't seen her daughter in 31 days. If she hadn't said that, then it could have any day that Caylee could have died. Law enforcement would be completely in the dark. The partying at Fusians could be viewed as a woman who honestly thought her daughter was being taken care of by the nanny until one day, the carjacking/nanny disappeared/whatever happened.

KC could have gotten away with everything. Had she burned the car to the ground. Maybe that's what she wanted to do after all.

 

[zoomom]

I think you're one smart cookie.

 

[cloud9]

Excellent theory! I used to be upset that she burned up Caylee, (sorry), no tissue, etc. But I don't see that the dates don't match up.

 

[noonie]

I think you're one smart cookie.

Yes, she wanted to try and burn Caylee a few times, possibly at Blanchard Park, and who knows where else. In that attempt failed she prolly wanted to blaze the car! Didn't happened because she prolly gaged from the stench and was in a pickle after the car was towed. She left it there in a frenzy> She took the chance it would be stold and it didn't work. :sick::furious:

 

[USARDOG]

Yes, you are so right, the car and the body. Had she covered her trail better, she and ca could still be claiming Caylee alive, and it would be next to impossible to disprove.

Look at Hailey Cummings, no body, no evidence, no confession, no case.

KC could probably have pulled it off if she had not the flair for drama she does. The nanny story is pathetic, and if she just would have put her in the pool, held her down, waited 10 minutes then called 911 and turned on the tears, I don't think anyone would ever have known.

 

[cecybeans]

Yes, you are so right, the car and the body. Had she covered her trail better, she and ca could still be claiming Caylee alive, and it would be next to impossible to disprove.

Look at Hailey Cummings, no body, no evidence, no confession, no case.

KC could probably have pulled it off if she had not the flair for drama she does. The nanny story is pathetic, and if she just would have put her in the pool, held her down, waited 10 minutes then called 911 and turned on the tears, I don't think anyone would ever have known.

That's the only high point in this ridiculous charade; KC was such a spoiled brat and got by with so much that she didn't even think she had to bother. If she wasn't such a careless, ADD liar, we might not have as much evidence as we do now, and Caylee's fate might never be brought to justice.

CA's permissiveness in allowing her to get away with everything else may be the one reason KC won't get away with murder.

 

[flourish]

That's the only high point in this ridiculous charade; KC was such a spoiled brat and got by with so much that she didn't even think she had to bother. If she wasn't such a careless, ADD liar, we might not have as much evidence as we do now, and Caylee's fate might never be brought to justice.

CA's permissiveness in allowing her to get away with everything else may be the one reason KC won't get away with murder.

Most respectfully bolded by me, for emphasis

Very good point, Cecybeans! The permissiveness probably made her think she could get away with it, but at the same time ensures that won't happen b/c she's so arrogant from it all that she didn't clean up as good as she may have if she had really thought she needed to.

 

[ynotdivein]

But what if we didn't have the car as evidence?

Better than that - none of it has to be tied to June 16 - the day of Caylee's death. Think about it. The only reason we know about the 16th was from KC who said she hadn't seen her daughter in 31 days. If she hadn't said that, then it could have any day that Caylee could have died.

KC could have gotten away with everything. Had she burned the car to the ground. Maybe that's what she wanted to do after all.

(Respectfully snipped for length)

After spending yesterday on a computer that did not let me view documents :banghead::furious: I am finally catching up and have been keeping a timeline that matches yours in most essentials. Thanks for laying out one plausible timeline so clearly.

Reading that KC broke down and specified "31 days" in the family confrontation (from CA's depo) just chilled me--if you have been fretting for THIRTY-ONE DAYS about not seeing your baby, and you KNOW it has been EXACTLY THIRTY-ONE DAYS, then why have you not reported her missing??? Entomology and chem analyses and all the docs that have yet to be dumped will hopefully give those of us who care a clear picture of what happened, and bring some justice to Caylee... but this one little piece of the puzzle, for whatever reason, is most incriminating to me. You're distraught, you're cornered, you're emotional, you're cowering on your bedroom floor trying to face what might have happened--and you spit out that you last saw her 31 days ago. Not "a couple of weeks," not "about a month" ago.

"Thirty-one days."

 

[sophie01]

I've never posted here before but have been lurking for a long time. Forgive me if this is not in a thread where it should be.I've been wondering if Casey might have attempted to clean the decomp mess in the back of her car with the KIWI Fast Acting Cleaner found in the bag of trash from TL apartment, along with the paper towels also in the bag. Don't know how to put the photo up here,but in looking at those photos the cleaner has one of those scrubby brushes on it, and it is stained much the same color as the pile of paper towels in the same photos.All items were in the bag of trash found in the back of her car. There are several photos of the can of cleaner, but one in particular shows it lying on it's side near the pile of paper towels and both are stained. I know that cleaning dirty shoes could stain it, but that little scrubby brush could come in handy, if trying to scrub a mess out of a short nap carpeting. Hope this makes sense.

 

[darnudes]

I think she tried hard (for Casey) to get gas cans to go and get that car.

Without that car she was stuffed. You can't get around in the US (even I, a simple aussie, know that) without car not to mention the smell would be drawing attention to the car and she couldn't be sure where the car would end up. She would not want it out of her control, one of the reasons I am sure that she decided NOT to bury Caylee's body in her parents backyard..that and the Anthony dogs.

I'm not sure why she didn't try harder, but she did try.

That is why she says with conviction that the car was not abandoned....one of the few times she tells the truth. She wanted that car back for sure. If Jesse had of agreed to meet her with the cans she would have had it back in her possesion.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

It's just poetic justice! When we heard that she had recently admitted to stealing her dad's gas cans after Caylee "went missing" most of us thought the worst possible thing ~ that she had destroyed Caylee's body by burning it. After more discovery I'll admit I was pretty shocked to think that she really had just run out of gas for her car and thought little of the gas cans afterwards. But now (after even more discovery) we are learning that the gas can may be the most important link (because of the duct tape) that will connect duct-tape-happy Casey to the murder of her daughter.

I guess it taught me that even if our intuition isn't exactly right ~ it still shouldn't be completely discounted. You guys have great "hinkey meters!"

 

[ynotdivein]

That is why she says with conviction that the car was not abandoned....one of the few times she tells the truth. She wanted that car back for sure. If Jesse had of agreed to meet her with the cans she would have had it back in her possesion.

Respectfully snipped....

:waitasec: I more figured that the reason she said (with conviction, yes) that the car was not abandoned was because she thought saying that it was abandoned (by her or with her knowledge) would implicate her. She had any number of ways to get around, borrowing bfs' and gfs' cars and getting rides. She could have asked daddy to come help her out. But if she did THAT, GA and CA could have bargained that they would help her get the car away from the gas station IF she let them see Caylee. Plus the trunk was already inexplicably stinky. Better to let it sit?

 

[sarah7855]

I've never posted here before but have been lurking for a long time. Forgive me if this is not in a thread where it should be.I've been wondering if Casey might have attempted to clean the decomp mess in the back of her car with the KIWI Fast Acting Cleaner found in the bag of trash from TL apartment, along with the paper towels also in the bag. Don't know how to put the photo up here,but in looking at those photos the cleaner has one of those scrubby brushes on it, and it is stained much the same color as the pile of paper towels in the same photos.All items were in the bag of trash found in the back of her car. There are several photos of the can of cleaner, but one in particular shows it lying on it's side near the pile of paper towels and both are stained. I know that cleaning dirty shoes could stain it, but that little scrubby brush could come in handy, if trying to scrub a mess out of a short nap carpeting. Hope this makes sense.

I think this is a great point! welcome to posting!!

 

[suzanne m]

Now we have the coffin flies, the decomp on the tissue found in the car, the air samples and the stain (which may or may not have the image of Caylee on it) - all damaging evidence from the car. I've always felt the most damaging evidence - the nail you can hang your hat on - is the Pontiac Sunfire. The death hair came from it. The coffin flies and they being in it's adult stage (and they were found on the 16th of July - and if you check out wikipedia, you'll know it can only reach its adult stage after four weeks) and the smell George and Cindy talks about all comes from it. It's the only evidence that Casey can't get away from.

But what if we didn't have the car as evidence?

June 16 - I think we're all on board that this is when Caylee died. I think Casey killed Caylee either in the Anthony home or in the trunk of the car and, instead of disposing the body immediately, went to Lazzaro's and the both of them went to Blockbuster.

June 17 - she doesn't appear to be pinging away from Lazzaro's, so she's at his place, contemplating what she did. And planning what to do next.

June 18 & 19 - this is when she borrows Brian Burner's shovels to bury the body. I think on the 19th, she discovers the body in an advanced decomposition state - messy and spilled on the carpet on the Pontiac's trunk. She wants to deal with it, but she has to leave before Cindy gets home.

June 20 - this is when I think she gets rid of the body - but this is when she starts smelling the decomp. She dumps the body but doesn't pay a lot of attention to the trunk yet. She associates the smell with the body itself. And she has to party later tonight.

June 21-22 - she stays with Tony and never deals with Pontiac.

June 23 - she gets her first whiff of the trunk and it's bad. She tries to clean it up - the first of many attempts, but fails. she runs out of gas, gets TonE to break the lock of the garage at the A's home to get the gas cans (now why would he do that I have no idea - but perhaps this is KC's way to plant a seed of evidence against him) and prevent him from getting close to the trunk of the car.

June 24 - George calls the cops regarding the gas cans and Cindy calls KC to inform her - which sends KC to the A's house to pre-empt any police activity. George sense something's wrong, and I'm very certain George smelled decomposition when he went to KC's trunk! I just can't see it any other way. After Casey leaves in a rush, Cindy and George have a very long talk about what George smelled.

June 25 - it explains why KC sends a text message to Amy regarding the smell. KC knows her parents (especially Cindy) has a habit of calling her friends and telling them about KC. So she attempts to pre-empt Cindy if she tries to call Amy regarding the smell. I know that Cindy didn't have Amy's number until mid-July, but assume KC didn't know that. She's covering ALL her tracks. She makes yet another attempt to clean the car.

June 26 - yet another attempt to clean the car - using the chemicals from the Lazzaro home - but it's not working. Another pre-empt convo with Amy regarding the smell. KC knows she HAS to get rid of the car.

June 27 - she has several ideas: a carjacking, the car being stolen, or to burn it. She fills the car up with trash to either cover up the smell or as a fuelant for the car fire. She gives the carjacking idea a try so she deliberately runs out of gas, calls TonE to pick her up, refuses his offer to fill the tank up and says George will take care of it. To me, this proves she doesn't want the car back. For the rest of the day, she makes no attempt to retrieve the car - no request for gas cans, no calls to George, etc.

June 28-29 - NOW she wants the gas cans. For what reason? and how sincere is her attempt at getting them. A call to Jesse Grund on Saturday and one call to Amy on Sunday. She coulda had the gas from TonE on Friday.

June 30 - she gets Amy to come to Amscot with the gas can. And the car is gone.

Here's what I think: she drove past the Amscot on her way to Amy KNOWING the car was already gone - she brought Amy just to bolster a testimony from Amy that KC wanted to get the car and to verify it was gone (stolen even).

But what if she burned the car? What if she wanted the gas can to fill the car up halfway to take it to a remote area, then use the rest of the gas to torch it? No evidence. Any link to Caylee's death and Casey are gone (with the exception of the decom picked up by the dogs in the backyard of the A's home. But had she burned the car, she could have made up any story she wanted: she was carjacked and the guys took Caylee afterwards; Caylee and Zenaida were visiting somewhere and they just disappeared - and my car is stolen; Zenaida took my car.. it goes on and on.

Better than that - none of it has to be tied to June 16 - the day of Caylee's death. Think about it. The only reason we know about the 16th was from KC who said she hadn't seen her daughter in 31 days. If she hadn't said that, then it could have any day that Caylee could have died. Law enforcement would be completely in the dark. The partying at Fusians could be viewed as a woman who honestly thought her daughter was being taken care of by the nanny until one day, the carjacking/nanny disappeared/whatever happened.

KC could have gotten away with everything. Had she burned the car to the ground. Maybe that's what she wanted to do after all.

Thanks so much for this timeline, makes things a little clearer for me. I have been gone a little while and this point of view sure helped see things a little more clearly, Easy to read, and a great theory, thanks again!

 

[2goldfish]

well I do agree although I must say LE wouldnt be totally in the dark - after the body was found anyways - but until then - no getting car from the towyard, no moment of clarity from CA calling 911...maybe kc would just carried on doing whatever...cindy woulda never found her, she got amy's info from the car too which led her to KC...

 

[SleuthyMama]

I think she tried hard (for Casey) to get gas cans to go and get that car.

Without that car she was stuffed. You can't get around in the US (even I, a simple aussie, know that) without car not to mention the smell would be drawing attention to the car and she couldn't be sure where the car would end up. She would not want it out of her control, one of the reasons I am sure that she decided NOT to bury Caylee's body in her parents backyard..that and the Anthony dogs.

I'm not sure why she didn't try harder, but she did try.

That is why she says with conviction that the car was not abandoned....one of the few times she tells the truth. She wanted that car back for sure. If Jesse had of agreed to meet her with the cans she would have had it back in her possesion.

Completely respect your opinion but I disagree. See, I think she wanted nothing more than for that car to be stolen from Amscot. Remember that she left a pocketbook on the front seat! She was trying to entice someone into taking that car off her hands. She parked next to the dumpster so that the sucker who decides to steal the car initially thinks the smell is from the dumpster. After the car is gone, the smell and the horrors of what lay in the trunk are someone else's problem.

JMO but I don't think for a minute that she wanted that car back. At that point, she still was believing no one suspected a thing about Caylee being gone. She wanted that car stolen, figuring that would direct any future attention away from her.

 

[TrY]

I think the OP's theory is interesting. I don't think that Casey realized how messy a decomposing body would become or she would have dumped Caylee sooner before the leaking in the trunk.

Why didn't Casey just rip out the trunk liner and spare tire cover and ditch them somewhere after she dumped Caylee?

I think that setting fire to the car would have blown Casey's stories with her family about being in Tampa and Jacksonville plus I don't think Casey is or was smart enough to think about setting fire to her own set of wheels. I think she parked it at Amscot hoping that it would get stolen. Too bad for her that it wasn't.

 

[Leila]

I've never posted here before but have been lurking for a long time. Forgive me if this is not in a thread where it should be.I've been wondering if Casey might have attempted to clean the decomp mess in the back of her car with the KIWI Fast Acting Cleaner found in the bag of trash from TL apartment, along with the paper towels also in the bag. Don't know how to put the photo up here,but in looking at those photos the cleaner has one of those scrubby brushes on it, and it is stained much the same color as the pile of paper towels in the same photos.All items were in the bag of trash found in the back of her car. There are several photos of the can of cleaner, but one in particular shows it lying on it's side near the pile of paper towels and both are stained. I know that cleaning dirty shoes could stain it, but that little scrubby brush could come in handy, if trying to scrub a mess out of a short nap carpeting. Hope this makes sense.

Welcome aboard sophie!

 

[Leila]

Casey doesn't impress me as being very intelligent. Although she apparently planned on killing Caylee for a few months, she seemed to concentrate on researching the method of killing rather than how to cover up the murder.

The car is one of the major pieces of evidence, along with the odor and forensic evidence it contained. Had Casey burned the car, or gotten rid of it by other means, along with Caylee's body, it would have been difficult to charge her with murder.

Sometime between July 15 and August 1, the OCSO put divers into one of the ponds near the Anthony home, looking for Caylee's body. Of course, they didn't find Caylee's body, but they did find 3 or 4 old cars, which were hauled out of the pond and towed away.

Had Casey put Caylee's body in the trunk of the car, along with all evidence she wanted to get rid of, and pushed that car into one of the numerous ponds that dot the Orlando landscape, the car and Caylee's remains wouldn't have been found - possibly for years.

1. Cindy and George would have never received a notice that a car registered to them had been impounded.

2. Cindy and George wouldn't have retrieved the car and smelled the odor of a dead body in that car.

3. Cindy wouldn't have found the paperwork in the car with AH's telephone number on it, and been able to call her.

4. Casey would have had no reason to steal the gas cans from her parent's shed.

5. Casey wouldn't have had to come up with the "Nanny kidnapped Caylee" story. A far more simple story of her car being stolen with Caylee in it, would have been sufficient. She could say she parked, left the engine running, and ran into a 7-11 for a soda, came out and her car and Caylee were gone. All she would have had to do, is to walk to a 7-11 after pushing the car into a deep pond; walk in and buy a soda and leave; and then run back inside within a minute hysterical saying her car and daughter had been stolen.