What Is Your Theory?

[zenzen]

after reading through this case my first instinct is that this is a group of dissociative young men possibly linked together via some darkweb group.
i think the fact similar cases seem to have been popping up worldwide not just localised reflects shared hatred manifesting as acts of violence against those who resemble tormentors from the past (jocks, popular , possibly bullies)
these individuals have found a way to express their rage in a forum that accepts and encourages vengeance and unlike spree shooters they intend to make as many perceived nemesis's pay, they do not want to be caught or stopped and the mob mentally is feeding the attacks.

 

[Terrapin]

Just joined - first post, so apologise if not correct place to post.

I've watched the series and was wondering if the idea of bands being part of this circle. It seems that from what I've seen, all have started in bars and most of not all had stages for bands. Bands travel all around so it wouldn't take many to explain the broad geographical area these have covered.

I haven't gone thru the complete forum, so if thIs idea has been brought up - disregard this post. Hopefully they'll get to the bottom of this, but it's gonna be a tough one.

Peace and love to all - stay safe and healthy!

 

[Bradley Q.]

So, I've heard this theory brought up a few times, and here's my thoughts.

Personally, I think that most (if not all) of these deaths are accidental. The whole "smiley face" thing is just silly- it's such a common grafitti tag that you're probably never more than a mile away from one in a city. The number of deaths may seem suspicious at first, but I've never seen anything indicating that these deaths are occurring at a rate higher than normal drowning incidents.

The vast majority of these incidents fit the profile of accidental drowning perfectly. College-age men are the most likely demographic to engage in binge drinking and suffer accidents, and almost all of the victims had consumed alcohol. Even more importantly, little to none of the bodies recovered showed any signs of violence, making the idea that they were forced into the water little more than speculation. It's possible that some of the cases were actually murders, but even so I don't see any evidence that they're connected.

I've heard people ask "why don't other places near the water have more drowning fatalities", and as someone who lives in a university town near the coast, I can say we do have drowning incidents from time to time. They don't get anywhere near as much attention because A) they aren't considered out of the ordinary and B) there's no theory that a gang of Sweet Iced Tea killers is going around throwing people into canals. Additionally, people are a lot more likely to know basic swimming skills and when it's dangerous to enter water.

IMO, people are trying to find an "abnormal" reason for one of the most common causes of death in the US, and while I understand why that may be tempting, it's not healthy for the families of the victims and is never going to lead to any sort of answer.

 

[robespierre]

My theory is that drunk males walking by waterways sometimes fall in. "River Killers," not so much.

 

[TroyinTX]

My theory is that drunk males walking by waterways sometimes fall in. "River Killers," not so much.

Except many of them weren't drunk.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

At least 2 in Pittsburgh are unlikely to be accidents or suicides.

 

[Ninja Bunny]

Guys get drunk at a bar, they wander toward a nearby river, they fall in and drown.

Sober people also mess around near rivers, they fall in and drown too.

That’s it.

 

[SCaJ]

I haven't read through this entire forum yet so I apologize if this has already been mentioned but, there was The Happy Face killer that signed his messages to police with a smiley face and he also painted smiley faces near his victims bodies. He was an interstate trucker. It is quite possible, even though they only know of women he killed, that he also killed men as well. They don't truly know how many people he killed.

 

[Ixchel13]

SFK is real. Did a lot of research on where it started and in what Midwest business. Then, as that Midwest business branched out, there were killings in each new area it located in.

Did some lateral research, by reading customer comments from each of this business' locations. Always the same. Rude waitresses and violent bouncers.

This business chain always located in college towns. Anyone familiar with my posts knows I took jobs every summer usually on a mgr/assist mgr level in the bars/rest. of Bloomington.

I learned something real about college town bars. 3/4 of the
waiters/waitresses HATE their clientele. They steal from them, rufie them, rob them, and take advantage of them any way they can.

Whomever these smiley face killers are, they are hostile towards good looking, well proportioned, usually tall, athletic
men who like to drink. or, alternatively, they may be attracted to them.

They rufied them, I use "rufie" vaguely because there are so many drugs besides actual rufies that work. These victims were on the top of their physical best, not easy to "take" without drugging them.


It has to be an employee working with at least one person inside and a car waiting outside, in a few cases a car trolling the stumbling victim was the last thing seen.

Only two survivors of this. Why would they lie? What is veeeeerrrry interesting is that one of the survivors was the nephew of the owner of the business that had the first victim.

He somehow dragged himself to a hospital and he was covered in river mud. He woke up from unconsciousness in the river that is across from this business, the only thing he vaguely remembers is someone yanking him in or out of a car.

Yes, totally agree that drunk guys fall into the water, but the
pattern of these murders is too delineated to be happenstance or even random murders carried out by unrelated people.

The business aforementioned is owned by guys who are also religious. K9s tracked one of the victims scent to a monastery. And then again to the same monastery. And then iirc there was a connection, a victim was connected to monk at monastery? as a student? will have to check that.
The "baptism" aspect of these drownings is obvious once you tie in the dogs signaling at monastery. Some famous person said to always be afraid of people who do bad things "for your own good," or, "for your own salvation." Killing you for your own salvation has been going on since the beginning of time.

Are we looking for an older priest involved who in the past coached athletics at a religious school? can of worms that would be, what? just a guess, moo.

We had a victim of the SFK here in BTown. Happy go lucky popular frat guy decides to drown himself after leaving his friends at THE same restaurant chain? uh-uh. The guy had a trip planned with his sis and was excited about it. The SFK
followed the same pattern of leaving some message to his sister that he was abruptly leaving the country and not to worry and
was found drowned at Lake Griffy.

I could go into minute detail, I spent hours on research but I don't want to get into trouble.

My theory? Some insane, "mad monk", possibly "down low",
iykwim, and ex-students with access started drugging young, handsome, athletic men in bars, tortured them, and
then "baptized" them by drowning them. They recruited disillusioned, resentful employees that fit their profile perfectly, probably blackmailed them or bribed them with $$$
to scout the perfect victim.

Do the research on how, where and when these victims turned up and match it to the openings of this restaurant, which is next door to the restaurant where the first victim was before he was abducted and drowned.

Very easy to see the connection, I am the worst researcher on here.

You will see that this restaurant named a sandwich after the restaurant next door where the first victim came from; then opened a branch in a Colorado city that had the same sandwich name, and lo and behold, SFK victim right there and then! SFK had made it West.
Hint:
look for the word, "tree." BTW, tree restaurant closed, other restaurant chain still going. but floundering a bit.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

SFK is real. Did a lot of research on where it started and in what Midwest business. Then, as that Midwest business branched out, there were killings in each new area it located in.

Did some lateral research, by reading customer comments from each of this business' locations. Always the same. Rude waitresses and violent bouncers.

This business chain always located in college towns. Anyone familiar with my posts knows I took jobs every summer usually on a mgr/assist mgr level in the bars/rest. of Bloomington.

I learned something real about college town bars. 3/4 of the
waiters/waitresses HATE their clientele. They steal from them, rufie them, rob them, and take advantage of them any way they can.

Whomever these smiley face killers are, they are hostile towards good looking, well proportioned, usually tall, athletic
men who like to drink. or, alternatively, they may be attracted to them.

They rufied them, I use "rufie" vaguely because there are so many drugs besides actual rufies that work. These victims were on the top of their physical best, not easy to "take" without drugging them.


It has to be an employee working with at least one person inside and a car waiting outside, in a few cases a car trolling the stumbling victim was the last thing seen.

Only two survivors of this. Why would they lie? What is veeeeerrrry interesting is that one of the survivors was the nephew of the owner of the business that had the first victim.

He somehow dragged himself to a hospital and he was covered in river mud. He woke up from unconsciousness in the river that is across from this business, the only thing he vaguely remembers is someone yanking him in or out of a car.

Yes, totally agree that drunk guys fall into the water, but the
pattern of these murders is too delineated to be happenstance or even random murders carried out by unrelated people.

The business aforementioned is owned by guys who are also religious. K9s tracked one of the victims scent to a monastery. And then again to the same monastery. And then iirc there was a connection, a victim was connected to monk at monastery? as a student? will have to check that.
The "baptism" aspect of these drownings is obvious once you tie in the dogs signaling at monastery. Some famous person said to always be afraid of people who do bad things "for your own good," or, "for your own salvation." Killing you for your own salvation has been going on since the beginning of time.

Are we looking for an older priest involved who in the past coached athletics at a religious school? can of worms that would be, what? just a guess, moo.

We had a victim of the SFK here in BTown. Happy go lucky popular frat guy decides to drown himself after leaving his friends at THE same restaurant chain? uh-uh. The guy had a trip planned with his sis and was excited about it. The SFK
followed the same pattern of leaving some message to his sister that he was abruptly leaving the country and not to worry and
was found drowned at Lake Griffy.

I could go into minute detail, I spent hours on research but I don't want to get into trouble.

My theory? Some insane, "mad monk", possibly "down low",
iykwim, and ex-students with access started drugging young, handsome, athletic men in bars, tortured them, and
then "baptized" them by drowning them. They recruited disillusioned, resentful employees that fit their profile perfectly, probably blackmailed them or bribed them with $$$
to scout the perfect victim.

Do the research on how, where and when these victims turned up and match it to the openings of this restaurant, which is next door to the restaurant where the first victim was before he was abducted and drowned.

Very easy to see the connection, I am the worst researcher on here.

You will see that this restaurant named a sandwich after the restaurant next door where the first victim came from; then opened a branch in a Colorado city that had the same sandwich name, and lo and behold, SFK victim right there and then! SFK had made it West.
Hint:
look for the word, "tree." BTW, tree restaurant closed, other restaurant chain still going. but floundering a bit.

Sounds like the nephew got drunk, crawled into someone's car who kicked them out, and then they stumble to the river. Drunk/stoned people and water do not get along.

 

[Ixchel13]

Sounds like the nephew got drunk, crawled into someone's car who kicked them out, and then they stumble to the river. Drunk/stoned people and water do not get along.

this rich kid did not stumble towards the river, no.

To me, it sounds like he was trying to stumble into his car, didn't quite make it and vaguely remembers someone yanking him out.

Not to sound mean, but yours and others rationalization of these accounts bothers me.

Over 200 young, athletic men don't drown in normal ways so close together in a singular geographic location. give us a break!

So, someone was drowning these young men....

 

[glamourkitty1922]

this rich kid did not stumble towards the river, no.

To me, it sounds like he was trying to stumble into his car, didn't quite make it and vaguely remembers someone yanking him out.

Not to sound mean, but yours and others rationalization of these accounts bothers me.

Over 200 young, athletic men don't drown in normal ways so close together in a singular geographic location. give us a break!

So, someone was drowning these young men....

Rich kids get as drunk and confused as any other kids when drinking. If there is one thing that I have learned as an adult, it is that you cannot put your trust in a person's drunken memories. There is nothing mysterious about a drunken person drowning.

 

[Ixchel13]

Rich kids get as drunk and confused as any other kids when drinking. If there is one thing that I have learned as an adult, it is that you cannot put your trust in a person's drunken memories. There is nothing mysterious about a drunken person drowning.

guy regained consciousness in the river. He was drowning. He
vaguely remembers a struggle either getting in or out of a car. Why discount anything he remembers? And these were not rich kids but middle class athletic, usually tall, good looking young men. They weren't loners, and weirdly, usually were out with friends and got separated from them.

In most cases, the victim is not only separated but ostracized
away from his group, often by bouncers. often this happens without their friends knowing anything had happened. In one case, victim was absolutely fine, had only 2 beers and then very quickly deteriorates on camera starts taking his clothes off and gets bounced out without his friends knowing and ends up drowned in the river. His body had been tortured and had small burns all over it.

Sorry but just too many drownings of the same type of victim in a formulaic manner. Drugged, kidnapped, some kept for days , others immediately drowned.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

guy regained consciousness in the river. He was drowning. He
vaguely remembers a struggle either getting in or out of a car. Why discount anything he remembers? And these were not rich kids but middle class athletic, usually tall, good looking young men. They weren't loners, and weirdly, usually were out with friends and got separated from them.

In most cases, the victim is not only separated but ostracized
away from his group, often by bouncers. often this happens without their friends knowing anything had happened. In one case, victim was absolutely fine, had only 2 beers and then very quickly deteriorates on camera starts taking his clothes off and gets bounced out without his friends knowing and ends up drowned in the river. His body had been tortured and had small burns all over it.

Sorry but just too many drownings of the same type of victim in a formulaic manner. Drugged, kidnapped, some kept for days , others immediately drowned.

He remembers being thrown out of a car, not being thrown into a river, so the most reasonable explanation is that he crawled into the wrong car and was ejected. He then staggered into the river. He was lucky to have survived. Hopefully that will have taught him to drink in moderation.

 

[Ixchel13]

He remembers being thrown out of a car, not being thrown into a river, so the most reasonable explanation is that he crawled into the wrong car and was ejected. He then staggered into the river. He was lucky to have survived. Hopefully that will have taught him to drink in moderation.

The most simple and reasonable answer....Occam's razor, I see.

In this case, it seems like the killers, the murderers, the drowners, used Occam's Razor in reverse. They knew the cops and public would assume drunk guys stumble into rivers and drown, nothing to see here.

In almost every case, the families told a different story. These were happy, athletic, friendly guys with trips planned and
new beginnings, etc, not depressed, suicidal, black out drunks. Seen on video before their deaths, these victims are mostly said to be acting very unlike their usual selves.

At least half of them were upper echelon athletes, captains of lacrosse, swimming, basketball and soccer teams. Unless they were drugged, when they fall in the shallow part of a river they have a very good chance of survival.

Also, how does one explain the drownings in lakes? are we to assume drunk guys walk all the way to a lake to drown themselves? Looking at maps where victims were last seen
and then the lakes they drowned in makes this a ludicrous
assumption that is neither simple or reasonable.

Also wishing people would learn their lessons about drinking
until they are drowned in a river by vicious killers.

 

[Ixchel13]

Wanted to add, we had a SFK murder, maybe two, here at IU.

Will maybe go back and get name and other info but the story is, frat guy, popular, is out with frat bros, they go bar hopping. including the bar chain
also connected with first SFK victim in WI, anyway, he goes here and there and then he breaks off from them, texts someone he is getting something to eat and then is found drowned in Lake Griffy, backpack and all. Weird text message to his sis, whom he had a trip planned with in the next few days, telling her he had to iirc, leave the country?

I'll look it up and get back. People conjectured suicide in this case, but nothing pointed to it! Not his frat bros, his sis, his family or teachers had seen any type of suicidal behavior, and in his room it could be seen he was packing for his trip. SFK have been known to leave weird text messages, just saying.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

The most simple and reasonable answer....Occam's razor, I see.

In this case, it seems like the killers, the murderers, the drowners, used Occam's Razor in reverse. They knew the cops and public would assume drunk guys stumble into rivers and drown, nothing to see here.

In almost every case, the families told a different story. These were happy, athletic, friendly guys with trips planned and
new beginnings, etc, not depressed, suicidal, black out drunks. Seen on video before their deaths, these victims are mostly said to be acting very unlike their usual selves.

At least half of them were upper echelon athletes, captains of lacrosse, swimming, basketball and soccer teams. Unless they were drugged, when they fall in the shallow part of a river they have a very good chance of survival.

Also, how does one explain the drownings in lakes? are we to assume drunk guys walk all the way to a lake to drown themselves? Looking at maps where victims were last seen
and then the lakes they drowned in makes this a ludicrous
assumption that is neither simple or reasonable.

Also wishing people would learn their lessons about drinking
until they are drowned in a river by vicious killers.

Yet, there they were, all drinking and pretty drunk when they left on foot. Being drunk isn't a good combination with water. As for lakes, people drown in lakes all the time. Even small lakes.

 

[Ixchel13]

Yet, there they were, all drinking and pretty drunk when they left on foot. Being drunk isn't a good combination with water. As for lakes, people drown in lakes all the time. Even small lakes.

they didn't "leave on foot" they were for the most part kicked out and never seen again on cameras that would have captured them stumbling towards the river, etc. It always seemed they were grabbed soon after leaving..
In one particular case, the lake the guy drowned in was 2 mi. from the bar he was kicked out of. Yes, it is possible, but by your logic, would that be probable?

 

[glamourkitty1922]

they didn't "leave on foot" they were for the most part kicked out and never seen again on cameras that would have captured them stumbling towards the river, etc. It always seemed they were grabbed soon after leaving..
In one particular case, the lake the guy drowned in was 2 mi. from the bar he was kicked out of. Yes, it is possible, but by your logic, would that be probable?

2 miles is an easy walk, even when drunk. No, I believe they simply drank too much and drowned. There is no evidence of a kidnapping, a fight, anything other than wandering off on foot while drunk. Logically the best answer that covers all the facts and doesn't require insertion of facts not in evidence.

 

[Ixchel13]

[