What Kind Of Defense for Casey in a trial?

[NancyT]

ok...so we agree then. Why not expose to the prosecution what the defense may be thinking? the more minds that can look at this the more theories we can hand over to the prosecution.
I'm missing your point

Since is seems JB is living in his own little world, I'm not sure anyone on this board could possibly get inside his head. He's just WAY out there and ALL over the place.

Seriously, I'm shocked he graduated from law school, let alone was able to pass at least the Florida Bar.

My guess is, he missed out of a lot of the 101 classes or something.

 

[Baznme]

Regardless on what kind of defense JB & the DP atty come up with, the jurors are still human......KC's demeanor in court will count for a lot....Just one of her famous little smirks, or inappropriate laughs during witness testimony will be very telling to the jury, and if she starts hanging all over JB, the jury will see that too....and they won't like it!
She may have delusions of Juliette Lewis, but I don't think she's a good enough actress to pull off a grieving mother act in the courtroom....JMO

You're right!! She doesn't have it in her. She's going to be her own worst enemy.

 

[NancyT]

Regardless on what kind of defense JB & the DP atty come up with, the jurors are still human......KC's demeanor in court will count for a lot....Just one of her famous little smirks, or inappropriate laughs during witness testimony will be very telling to the jury, and if she starts hanging all over JB, the jury will see that too....and they won't like it!
She may have delusions of Juliette Lewis, but I don't think she's a good enough actress to pull off a grieving mother act in the courtroom....JMO

A grieving mother? Bolded words are mine:

"Because I'm not here (expletive) crying every two seconds because I have to stay composed to listen to testimony. "I can't sit here and be crying every two seconds like I want to -- I can't."

 

[MiraclesHappen]

by bringing it out...you actually help the prosecution prepare to counter. The defense is always very secretive about their theory. by exposing it you assist the prosecution not the other way around.

It's difficult for JB to jump up and yell Surprise!

Although the defense may want to be all secretive they have numerous obligations to give up information under the Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure and they must provide witness lists, reports of experts, anything being introduced as tangible evidence and on and on under Rule 3.220. Including but not limited to the following:


following information and material that is in the defendant’s possession or control:
(i) the statement of any person listed in subdivision (d)(1)(A), other than that of the defendant;
(ii) reports or statements of experts made in connection with the particular case, including results of
physical or mental examinations and of scientific tests, experiments, or comparisons; and
(iii) any tangible papers or objects that the defendant intends to use in the hearing or trial....


Furthermore

The prosecutor may, without leave of court, take the deposition of any witness listed by the defendant to be called at a trial or hearing.

 

[Themis]

ok...so we agree then. Why not expose to the prosecution what the defense may be thinking? the more minds that can look at this the more theories we can hand over to the prosecution.
I'm missing your point

Sorry, I must be mis-communicating.
In my estimation, the legal beagles who post on this forum have perhaps a century of cumulative legal experience in handling matters similar to this one. Add in the paralegals and LE types who post here and the experience factor is much more. This is essentially a "dream team" to help WSers understand the legal aspects of this case.

It has been commented that the A family camp and perhaps even the defense team read here. Experience like that is a powerful tool in the arena where legal gladiators go up against each other.

The Orange County State's Attorney's Office has very experienced prosecutors. Jose has 3 years of legal experience and apparently no big, contested criminal trials. His legal duty is either to get up to speed fast to try this case or align himself with someone who can.

Defense has an affirmative duty to disclose some things before trial as posted by MiraclesHappen. If he doesn't, he could lose the right to put on those defenses or delay the trial and make the judge cranky.

Putting together defense theories and tactics by a team that exists here could well impact that delicate balance that exists in the real world between Jose's 3 years and the government prosecutors. The government prosecutors are more than capable of handling this case and anticipating defense theories and strategies without our help.

It is one thing to sleuth and discuss for the benefit of sharing knowledge with the WSers and the public, but quite another to start impacting the real world.

It is important to know and understand these boundaries between the cyber world like WS and the real world.

 

[Themis]

It's difficult for JB to jump up and yell Surprise!

Although the defense may want to be all secretive they have numerous obligations to give up information under the Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure and they must provide witness lists, reports of experts, anything being introduced as tangible evidence and on and on under Rule 3.220. Including but not limited to the following:


following information and material that is in the defendant’s possession or control:
(i) the statement of any person listed in subdivision (d)(1)(A), other than that of the defendant;
(ii) reports or statements of experts made in connection with the particular case, including results of
physical or mental examinations and of scientific tests, experiments, or comparisons; and
(iii) any tangible papers or objects that the defendant intends to use in the hearing or trial....


Furthermore

The prosecutor may, without leave of court, take the deposition of any witness listed by the defendant to be called at a trial or hearing.

Jose keeps saying they won't reveal anything until the right time and that is in his opening argument. That generally comes after prosecution's opening arguement or when the prosecution rests and at the start of the defense case. How does JB think the prosecution is going to depose witnesses listed if he is going to keep his defense theory a secret? Obviously, he can't. Once he produces his witness list it will be obvious to the prosecution. If he doesn't have them listed as a witness and wants to present them in a surprise tactic at trial, he's cruisin' for a bruisin' from the trial judge!

 

[Themis]

I will go out on a limb here. If I were defending KC, I would spend the greatest amount of my time and effort and every negotiating skill I had to get KC to agree to the best plea deal I could wrangle from the prosecution. Maybe some lesser charges, No death penalty and expect about 20 years of prison time with time off for good behavior etc. From what we know of this case it bleeds for a good plea deal from the defense point of view. Throw in some top drawer mental health diagnosis and treatment too.

 

[FIND'HER]

Please delete this if It has already been discussed. When KC got out of Jail the First time she has always claimed she is innocent, for whatever has gone on. Then her Attorney talks about people will understand when she gets to tell her side of the story.
I am so lost. What possibly could she tell to make her innocent? What story would even fit together to make her innocent of her missing child.

Ive thought about every possible sceniero and nothing fits together.

What Theory would even make sense.

The only story I can come up with is that she knew her mom wanted full custody of that child. She was going to make it look like Caylee and her were missing but Amy told CA where KC was first. So then KC kept playing the someone kidnapped Caylee theory. But I dont think I would be sitting behind bars, for this amount of time. I dont think Caylee body was in that car. I think it was either a dead animal or either someone else. I dont think it was Caylee. Plus the first guy that visited KC in Jail. How did he know she was there?? How many friends that you have never spoke to just show up out of the clear blue.

 

[Insomnia Momma]

Oh, I agree she planned on going "missing" along with her daughter that's as far as I follow you though.

Cadaver dogs do NOT hit on animal remains. Hair with a death band does not show up on hair that looks like your daughters and has the same MTDNA as your family if she is alive. You do NOT wait 31 days, during which you party like no tomorrow, lie, steal, and everything else while your child is missing and then change your story to fit your moods. You also don't search missing childrens forums, google how to make choloroform and have it in high levels in your car trunk along with said decomp odor.

Sorry, I'd love to believe she is alive but it all started with " I found my daughters car today, it smells like there has been a dead body in the damn car".

"Why did you call now? Why didn't you call 31 days ago"?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Defense attorneys always make ludicrous claims they can't cover before a high profile trial. They try to make people believe the sky is an ocean and give the public the perception that their client is innocent. If you will look at other high profile cases, you will find it is true. Scott P.'s case is a perfect example. MG even made claims in his opening statement he never came back to again in trial because there was no proof to back them up.

Of course, proclaiming her innocence is easy before the trial and evidence is shown. The facts shown to the Grand Jury enough to indict her on murder charges should be a precursor of what is to come. The facts don't lie. We know for a fact that Casey and her family do.

If she were truly innocent, they would not wait until trial to bring out the real facts especially if it meant bringing an alive Caylee home. There is no reason to deceive anyone. They would be providing proof and shouting it from the rooftops instead of hiding it. The defense has nothing. 3 witnesses on their list to date to combat the 80+ witnesses on the State's side. Where are all those people willing to stand up for her and tell her side of the story? Where are the people she says she told? Where are her friends?

It is simple. There is NO theory which would make sense or make her appear innocent after you include the facts of this case. The facts do not lie. Casey does. She is not some Saint sitting in jail for the sake of her child.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Please delete this if It has already been discussed. When KC got out of Jail the First time she has always claimed she is innocent, for whatever has gone on. Then her Attorney talks about people will understand when she gets to tell her side of the story.
I am so lost. What possibly could she tell to make her innocent? What story would even fit together to make her innocent of her missing child.

Ive thought about every possible sceniero and nothing fits together.

What Theory would even make sense.

The only story I can come up with is that she knew her mom wanted full custody of that child. She was going to make it look like Caylee and her were missing but Amy told CA where KC was first. So then KC kept playing the someone kidnapped Caylee theory. But I dont think I would be sitting behind bars, for this amount of time. I dont think Caylee body was in that car. I think it was either a dead animal or either someone else. I dont think it was Caylee. Plus the first guy that visited KC in Jail. How did he know she was there?? How many friends that you have never spoke to just show up out of the clear blue.

There is only one way she would be able to prove her innocence!!

BRING CAYLEE HOME ALIVE!!!

Sadly to say this will never happen! She killed Caylee and LE will prove it when she goes to court!!!

 

[not_my_kids]

Yes, she says she's innocent. Of course she does. Walk into a penal facility,any of them and say, "Will all the innocent or wrongly accused please raise their hands?" Every single hand will go up. Don't you know tha tall the people in jail or prison are victims of a gross injustice?

 

[Jolynna]

Casey said she is innocent. She also said she had a job. She said her father had a heart attack. She said she had $15K in the bank. She said her parents were giving her their house. She said she put $4,400 in her parent's bank account. She said she had a nanny named Zani. She said she was working in Jacksonville. She said JH had a son named Zachary. She said she was going to move in with JH and Zachary and start a family. She said Zani was in a horrific accident in Tampa and she and Caylee were staying in Tampa helping Zani.

I have yet to see any seeds of truth in a single one of Casey's lies.

 

[donnam]

I dont think Caylee body was in that car. I think it was either a dead animal or either someone else. I dont think it was Caylee. Plus the first guy that visited KC in Jail. How did he know she was there?? How many friends that you have never spoke to just show up out of the clear blue.

Then whose hair with the death band on it that matches their Mtdna was it?
That "guy" was just trying to inject himself into the case. He knew she was there because it was all over the news!

 

[DianeB]

Casey is now well aware that her earlier tales were not only instantly disproved, they would have been laughable if they didn't involve the death of a baby.

She's had months to hone her storytelling skills while she sits in that little cell.

I'm looking forward to hearing the next chapter in her fictional account of her life, although it's doubtful we'll get to hear it because she won't have the opportunity to spin her yarns on a witness stand.

 

[EgyptNug]

One of the attorney's last night on NG said it's clear the defense it going for a forensic defense, ie they are just going to debate the validity of all the forensics, and probably not offer up an alternative, just question the "evidence" enough for a reasonable doubt in a few jurors.

I think it was GA (?) that said something like "Maybe KC has finally ripped off the wrong person"? (anyone remember the quote I'm talking about?). So one defense route could be that KC stole from the wrong person, and they kidnapped Caylee and threatened the A's if KC said anything.

Or she ripped off the wrong person and then sold Caylee to a sweet and loving family to pay off the debt. (Still wrong but not as wrong as murder).

However, I don't know how they explain her going out every night and having fun and and being around her friends who all said she acted more carefree and happy than ever. Nor the human decomp.

I think Baez making claims that he won't address in court, and keep KC silent, and then just defending against the scientific evidence, is probably the best court defense he can pull off. But imo, she should plea bargain for a lesser sentence...

 

[DianeB]

I think if any plea bargaining occurs, it will happen immediately before trial.

Until then, Casey will maintain the fiction that her daughter is still among us, aided by her family's desperate attempts to prove that their lying daughter is telling the truth for once.

If the state allows Casey to take a plea, her parents will be devastated at having to face the reality that Caylee never made it to three years old.

 

[Paintr]

[B]

I think if any plea bargaining occurs, it will happen immediately before trial.[/B]

Until then, Casey will maintain the fiction that her daughter is still among us, aided by her family's desperate attempts to prove that their lying daughter is telling the truth for once.

If the state allows Casey to take a plea, her parents will be devastated at having to face the reality that Caylee never made it to three years old.

What are the chances of a plea? Anyone guess? What would limited immunity involve? No DP? Shorter sentence?

 

[KellioPSL]

I think if her attorney has any smarts he better get his client to agree to come clean for a plea deal,when the state starts parading all of her ex-friends into the courtroom and they start spilling the beans on all of the drugging and partying, and then they start proving that caylee was being drugged and left in the car, this is going to be the only way to keep her from getting the death penalty. imho.

 

[Bree0372]

[B]

What are the chances of a plea? Anyone guess? What would limited immunity involve? No DP? Shorter sentence?

Previously the limited immunity deal involved - take us to Caylee's body...any evidence found can be used against you in trial but nothing you have told us can be used against you.

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I'm hoping they offer up a plea and she accepts prior to trial. Most importantly, it would give Caylee the peace she deserves - she could finally be laid to rest and honored like she deserves. I would say take the DP off the table and go with LWOP or an even lesser sentence. I don't like the idea of a reduced sentence, but honestly she wouldn't last long in prison anyway, IMO. They don't like baby killers in prison.