What was Casey's plan?

[kiki the parrot]

Debs: All her life, Casey has been in a battle royale with Cindy. Permissiveness mixed with condoning of bad behavior, outright covering up of bad behavior, lying to everyone about the causes of the behavior, blaming others for what has happened to Casey....patterns we still see today in Cindy. In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, Cindy offers up the stalwart defense of her daughter as innocent of charges. She ignores the visible proof of her daughter's criminality (the videos showing Casey purchasing items with Amy's stolen checks) as immaterial. All that is important is finding Caylee. No one can offer proof of that now, can they?

The inside has been exposed to the outside. Cindy's job forever has been to protect the inside view from others. Casey has always done everything to thwart that, hasn't she? She hasn't just suddenly begun to act out. She's been doing this for quite awhile. Her friends from school drifted away from her to casual acquaintances, most admitting that Casey has always lied about things. "Normal" people don't keep compulsive liars around. Casey keeps people around her and maximizes what she can get out of them before they withdraw, based on their exposure to her negative behaviors. "Everybody lies, everybody dies"....meaning we're all just like her, so she can justify her behavior. She just believes she's better at it than most.

So her mother calls the police on her, perhaps in an attempt to regain control over Casey. It backfires on Cindy, though. Now she has to actually have the outside in where she didn't really want them. If Casey had just answered her question, told the truth, I do not believe Cindy would have ever EVER said a word. I think she would have covered up with a story about Caylee being adopted and held that over Casey's head for life. I think Casey knew that, too. Faced with that choice, she admits she hasn't seen her daughter, BS'ing after that as to why. She would rather take her chances with the police than Cindy having any more control on her life. As wonky as it is, it proves to be her way out of this diabolical grip.

ITA Actually this first half isn't so much "spin" as truth IMO. The rest the defense might have a shot with except I can't see KC ever coming up off of it and admitting Caylee is dead--without a body. GO TES

YDog: Maybe Caylee did get into the pool by herself and when Casey discovered her unconscious there, she did resucitation and revived Caylee only to find out that the child was in a vegatative state due to brain damage and would never be normal again. She discovered this after lying her on the ground in the backyard to perform mouth to mouth. Finally realizing the child would never be the same again, in a distraught state, she euthanized her and placed her in the trunk of the car.

As horrific, and heartbreaking, as this thought is I've played this and similar scenarios out in my own mind, ie what if KC just thought Caylee was beyond hope of revival; or knew Caylee was beyond hope of revival; or as you suggest, believed Caylee was beyond hope of being not merely resuscitated but restored to her active, bright, former self. As unbearable as this thought is, you are (sadly) not the only one who has considered it. But only briefly, as it makes me feel panic and near hysteria, seriously, to think of discovering any child in this lifeless or unresponsive condition. And if the child was never to be the same, no one discovering the child--especially an adult who felt herself responsible--could ever be the same. JMO

 

[passionflower]

this thread is old but full of good things to read, I thought I would bump it so it is not lost! TIA

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Maybe Caylee did get into the pool by herself and when Casey discovered her unconscious there, she did resucitation and revived Caylee only to find out that the child was in a vegatative state due to brain damage and would never be normal again. She discovered this after lying her on the ground in the backyard to perform mouth to mouth. Finally realizing the child would never be the same again, in a distraught state, she euthanized her and placed her in the trunk of the car.

If she would go as far as trying to resucitate Caylee herself then she would have also called 911 with her ever present cell phone or otherwise. She is not medically trained so how would she know that Caylee was in a vegetative state? My father had a stroke and it took lots of expensive tests and specialists to determine he was in a vegetative state. Also, if she euthanized her, why make up the nanny story? Finally, how do you explain the lack of emotion, internet searches, etc.???

 

[wings]

Where is KMCs myspace? Facebook?

 

[GetSmart]

I think she was coasting by the seat of her pants... So many things she could've came up with.. She could've told C & G ..everybody..that she gave Caylee up for adoption.. she didn't need anyones approval for that.

At first I was thinking with the Chloroform search it might of been for her parents..after all she was suppose to get the house...

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

I agree with the above theory.

I think Casey wanted TonE. Cindy and George were most likely hassling her about not fulfilling her responsibilities as a mother. She was out all night and probably hung over and not too diligent during the days after George and Cindy went to work. I think going to her parent's house and getting Caylee was the day job the DJ saw Casey going off to.

It sounds like things came to a head on Father's day. Maybe Casey lost her temper with Caylee, too. Or maybe Casey was was fuming because her parents were so mean and passively/aggressively negligent with Caylee (all the gp's cared about in Casey's mind).

After the tragedy, I think Casey was living day to day pretending the whole thing never happened and making up stories when confronted. I think she put the messy evidence where she wouldn't have to deal with it.

Eventually she probably intended to come up with a plan. But in the meantime it was more fun being TonE's ideal girlfriend.

Cindy found Casey before Casey got around to any real plan. The police ratted Casey out to TonE before she could "explain".

Up to Caylee's disappearance, Casey's life was pretty much winging it day by day. I think that was and is still Casey's MO.

ITA. Especially the part about Casey living day to day pretending it never happened. I always thought that was what she was doing. If she had a brain or a better plan, when she packed, she would have brought at least a few of Caylee's things, when she shopped at Target, she would have bought a couple small things related to having a child, she would have maybe checked out the Sawgrass apartment and found out it had been vacant for months. I think she was shocked at being caught by Cindy and was not at all prepared for it. I think she killed Caylee in anger and fustration and not only didn't have a plan, but didn't even think about it much afterwards unless forced to when questioned.

 

[eddeva]

Maybe Caylee did get into the pool by herself and when Casey discovered her unconscious there, she did resucitation and revived Caylee only to find out that the child was in a vegatative state due to brain damage and would never be normal again. She discovered this after lying her on the ground in the backyard to perform mouth to mouth. Finally realizing the child would never be the same again, in a distraught state, she euthanized her and placed her in the trunk of the car.

but how would someone as earth shatteringly DUMB as casey know this?
wouldn't she at least have entertained the possibility of a coma from which caylee might return?
a persitent vegetative state cannot be diagnosed by a cretiniod sociopath in her back yard.

i hope she didn't have any pets that hybernated ...

 

[Brini]

I agree Poco. I think the guy in California was being set up to be her bolt hole. Tell him her parents had adopted Caylee. Tell her parents she is moving to another state with Caylee. It wouldn't surprise me if she then planned to move on from the guy in California and disappear altogether. Plus, unless she actually saw the car being towed, she would have no way of knowing if it had been stolen or not. I'm pretty sure that was in her plan too. She didn't immediately run to California because she thought the car HAD been stolen.

I also think she didn't have a plan, because she CAN'T plan. She doesn't really leave her neighborhood, because she doesn't entirely know how.

I think she had a "plan" to bolt to California, in the back of her mind. But, she put it off, and put it off, thinking she could sell the "Zanny" spiel forever. Then, CA had a moment of clarity on the 911 call, and the jig was up!

If she HAD bolted, she'd have been picked up at LAX or John Wayne Airport, the second she got off the plane.

 

[eddeva]

I also think she didn't have a plan, because she CAN'T plan. She doesn't really leave her neighborhood, because she doesn't entirely know how.

I think she had a "plan" to bolt to California, in the back of her mind. But, she put it off, and put it off, thinking she could sell the "Zanny" spiel forever. Then, CA had a moment of clarity on the 911 call, and the jig was up!

If she HAD bolted, she'd have been picked up at LAX or John Wayne Airport, the second she got off the plane.

i couldn't agree with you more, Brini. casey isn't capable of thinking that far ahead.
something about the plan to run off to california bothers me though - someone last week (sorry i can't remember who) posted a link to the myspace page belonging to the military guy she was supposedly running away to ... and he was talking about how he and his wife were looking forward to the arrival of a new baby (it was an old entry i think so baby should be here by now)
how did she think she was going to insert herself into someone elses family .... 'hi, you don't know me but i banged your hubby a few years back and i'm gonna be staying for a while' :waitasec:

 

[manatee]

I also think she didn't have a plan, because she CAN'T plan. She doesn't really leave her neighborhood, because she doesn't entirely know how.

I think she had a "plan" to bolt to California, in the back of her mind. But, she put it off, and put it off, thinking she could sell the "Zanny" spiel forever. Then, CA had a moment of clarity on the 911 call, and the jig was up!

If she HAD bolted, she'd have been picked up at LAX or John Wayne Airport, the second she got off the plane.

My question has always been, though, why tell Cindy "31 days?" she could have done with Cindy what she did with the LE...take her over to sawgrass, knock on the door, freak out, try to call Zani...Why say 31 days?
This alone is what has made her look the most guilty in everyone's eyes. No mother would calmly "look" for a missing child while also living a "normal" life and lying to everyone about where your child is.
Mother's usual reaction opun not finding a child where they are supposed to be is terror and horror, all consuming panic, loss of emotional control and inability to do anything else but search for that child. I've only experienced this for 15 minutes when one of my kids was not where they were supposed to be and I felt like a complete maniac.
So the not reporting Caylee missing for 31 days has always been the single most incriminating piece of evidence against her, IMO.

 

[EchointheDark]

but how would someone as earth shatteringly DUMB as casey know this?
wouldn't she at least have entertained the possibility of a coma from which caylee might return?
a persitent vegetative state cannot be diagnosed by a cretiniod sociopath in her back yard.

i hope she didn't have any pets that hybernated ...

eddeva; I think I love you...

Best argument for adoption: Caylee.
Best argument for abortion: Casey.

 

[Sdavidson11]

My question has always been, though, why tell Cindy "31 days?" she could have done with Cindy what she did with the LE...take her over to sawgrass, knock on the door, freak out, try to call Zani...Why say 31 days?
This alone is what has made her look the most guilty in everyone's eyes. No mother would calmly "look" for a missing child while also living a "normal" life and lying to everyone about where your child is.
Mother's usual reaction opun not finding a child where they are supposed to be is terror and horror, all consuming panic, loss of emotional control and inability to do anything else but search for that child. I've only experienced this for 15 minutes when one of my kids was not where they were supposed to be and I felt like a complete maniac.
So the not reporting Caylee missing for 31 days has always been the single most incriminating piece of evidence against her, IMO.

You are right on. I am almost embarrassed to tell this story but here goes, My 15 year old son was to meet me after school for a baseball meeting. I arrived at school, went to the designated room he was not there. Called his cell phone, no answer. I started getting nervous, asking some of his friends if they had spoken to him. All of them said the last they saw him he was walking back to the school from the baseball fields, which is probably half a mile. I drove like a crazy lady around the baseball fields, the football fields, basketball courts, now my son is 5'11" and 157 lbs. and I still freaked out. I eventually found him, another parent had taken him to a Subway shop for a sandwich but the fear that I felt while I didn't know where he was is indescribable other than complete panic! :crazy: I fear for what happened to poor, sweet Caylee.

 

[Indigo]

I think Casey's computer searches,along with her stories to friends and family,show clear evidence that Casey began planning this murder as far back as March. Like other narcissistic sociopaths before her, she thought her success would hinge on her charm and "unsurpassed intelligence." Fortunately, her belief in her own "super powers" is what did her in..surprise, surprise!

In short, Casey's fly-by-the-seat-of-her-pants nanny story speaks more to her inflated ego than her lack of premeditation. She thought we'd buy it hook, line and sinker just because she's Casey. JMO

 

[Indigo]

but how would someone as earth shatteringly DUMB as casey know this?
wouldn't she at least have entertained the possibility of a coma from which caylee might return?
a persitent vegetative state cannot be diagnosed by a cretiniod sociopath in her back yard.

i hope she didn't have any pets that hybernated ...

:rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling:

 

[ibyoungr]

Casey would have had it made for how long?
If only she had drowned the car.
Then no tow truck would have had to tow it away.
The tow truck company would not have had to notify the parents.

I blame the car myself for all of this...
it stinks!!

I posted something to this affect on the Theories board.
However, I like how you put it better. :rolling:

If she would have pushed that car in a lake... she could have went on for 3-4 more months or at least until Caylee's B-day.

Yep, we have a winner here... IT'S THE CAR'S FAULT

 

[Who_What_When]

My question has always been, though, why tell Cindy "31 days?" she could have done with Cindy what she did with the LE...take her over to sawgrass, knock on the door, freak out, try to call Zani...Why say 31 days?
This alone is what has made her look the most guilty in everyone's eyes. No mother would calmly "look" for a missing child while also living a "normal" life and lying to everyone about where your child is.
Mother's usual reaction opun not finding a child where they are supposed to be is terror and horror, all consuming panic, loss of emotional control and inability to do anything else but search for that child. I've only experienced this for 15 minutes when one of my kids was not where they were supposed to be and I felt like a complete maniac.
So the not reporting Caylee missing for 31 days has always been the single most incriminating piece of evidence against her, IMO.

I have the same question. Why say 31 days? Why not say it just happened? "I dropped her off this morning and I cant find her?" She had to have known that her story of 31 days was going to be questionable. To me, every action she took afterwards speaks to it not being premeditated. As we know Casey has a creative mind, so why not come up with something that would seem a little more credible? If she took the time to research how to kill her, etc., then surely she would have a better plan than to just party with her friends and tell everyone Caylee is on vacation with the nanny. She had to have known at some point she was going to have to explain where Caylee was. It just doesn't make sense to me. Why steal a check from your best friend and SIGN YOUR NAME??? She knew Amy would know it was her and that she would lose all her friends when they found out. It's as if she knew her time was running out so why not have the best time in her life before it ended. Why not plan to kill Caylee and then go to PR with her friends? She could have easily explained that Caylee was with the nanny during her trip. She could have pretended to be calling and checking in on Caylee throughout the week and then upon coming back they were both gone. It would have been more believable and she would have had people on her side.

 

[shadow of my mind]

The Breadcrumb Trail

A plan…. Not sure if what she had planned was what you could call a plan but this is sort of my thought in progress… when I listen to tapes and look at what we know…. I do have to wonder.
I posted this on the ‘Lets fid the house that the PI was digging and filming’ thread because once that came to light it is what got me to thinking about ‘was there a plan’. Was this all thunk out ahead of time? No, I don’t think so…. Bits and pieces maybe. I think that Casey had fantasized about what her life would be like without Caylee. There may have been some sort of idea of what she could do to make that a reality but she had not put the idea into an active planning stage yet. The basics may have been there such as staging a kidnapping, leaving clues to support a kidnapping, becoming famous but it was not all laid out.
Whatever the plan was for killing Caylee, it was not fully put together yet but for whatever reason Caylee ended up being killed and now Casey had to do some improvising. That is why it didn’t even come close to working and she is sitting in jail on murder one charges.
If it wasn’t for the 31 day delay in reporting anything, the decomp in the trunk of the car and the cadaver dog hits this might have actually been still been an active ‘kidnapped child’ case at least until a body was found and then even though it would have become a homicide Casey may have been seen as a victim. Casey just did not understand that LE could not be duped and that even though she had been able to get away with lying for years to family & friends..it wasn’t going to work with LE.

Here is what I think her plan was.

The house on Brackenwood Drive was to have been used as part of the whole nanny-kidnapping story that Casey told LE. I think that she thought that her 'clues' would lead LE to this house so they could find something at the house that would bolster her Zanny story. Now Casey becomes the poor mother and gets all of this attention, instant celebrity. Remember the comment to Cindy about her cameo on the news… she is ticked that her mother is the one and it should be her.
Unfortunately the 'clues' were so cryptic that LE could not figure them out. She thought she was being clever. Tell them enough so during the investigation LE would find the house via the name connection.
I have always wondered about the whole Sawgrass Apartment thing and the little tour that Casey took LE on. She was trying to feed them specific information. I think Casey thought that LE would discover something that would lead them back to this house. LE was not getting it and that is one of the reasons that Casey was so upset with them. She could not believe that they didn’t follow what she had laid out for them to follow.
I have just started to put this line of thinking together. I don't have all of the various links for all of the jail house calls with all of the conversations laid out but when you start adding up the way she was so insistent in using the names, the hyphen being so important, some of the conversation with Casey & Lee [paraphrasing] that have the comments that "I gave LE the same information 3 times exactly the same way and you have found out tons more stuff than ever did" and the one with Lee saying "I'll try to get as much out there as I can before anything would ever die." and “they haven’t even found her clothes yet” are a couple of examples of why I think this.
I think that the PI's may have been trying to either find what had originally been left behind for LE to stumble upon because if LE found this now it would incriminate her further; supporting premeditation or the PI’s may have been attempting to jump start the breadcrumb trail so every one would say...Ahha… maybe Caylee was really kidnapped.

I could be way out in left field on this… just kinda of thinking out loud but it would sure make some of what has been going on in this case make sense..
Shadow

 

[FightTheOstrich]

The months of speculation about how Casey has had to endure the psychotic control of Cindy, represented for all to see repeatedly by Cindy herself in those same months to assure that at least most people can see that is true, is step one in Casey's defense.

All her life, Casey has been in a battle royale with Cindy. Permissiveness mixed with condoning of bad behavior, outright covering up of bad behavior, lying to everyone about the causes of the behavior, blaming others for what has happened to Casey....patterns we still see today in Cindy. In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, Cindy offers up the stalwart defense of her daughter as innocent of charges. She ignores the visible proof of her daughter's criminality (the videos showing Casey purchasing items with Amy's stolen checks) as immaterial. All that is important is finding Caylee. No one can offer proof of that now, can they?

The inside has been exposed to the outside. Cindy's job forever has been to protect the inside view from others. Casey has always done everything to thwart that, hasn't she? She hasn't just suddenly begun to act out. She's been doing this for quite awhile. Her friends from school drifted away from her to casual acquaintances, most admitting that Casey has always lied about things. "Normal" people don't keep compulsive liars around. Casey keeps people around her and maximizes what she can get out of them before they withdraw, based on their exposure to her negative behaviors. "Everybody lies, everybody dies"....meaning we're all just like her, so she can justify her behavior. She just believes she's better at it than most.

So her mother calls the police on her, perhaps in an attempt to regain control over Casey. It backfires on Cindy, though. Now she has to actually have the outside in where she didn't really want them. If Casey had just answered her question, told the truth, I do not believe Cindy would have ever EVER said a word. I think she would have covered up with a story about Caylee being adopted and held that over Casey's head for life. I think Casey knew that, too. Faced with that choice, she admits she hasn't seen her daughter, BS'ing after that as to why. She would rather take her chances with the police than Cindy having any more control on her life. As wonky as it is, it proves to be her way out of this diabolical grip.

What happened to Caylee is all speculation. How she died, where she died, how long she was in the car, where she is now.....the only thing we can know to a matter of certainty is that Caylee's dead body was in the back of Casey's car when Casey was the only one in control of that car. She can't escape that aspect of the truth, so now we have to work on how we're going to spin that. Sure, she tried the ZFG angle. That was quickly disproved. So now what? Now there is evidence that she was out partying and stealing from her friends, buying items that would never back up the story that she was really trying to compensate for having had her child stolen from her, or even that her daughter was dead.

Enter the defense: Casey, after years of mental and perhaps physical abuse, decided to spare her daughter a life of hell such as she has lived with a woman like Cindy controlling every aspect of her life. Sure it's all princess and ponies at first, but Casey quickly learned it all came with a horrible price of sacrificing self. Her destructive behaviors of stealing from her family and friends was her way of coping with the conflicting and horrible emotional roller coaster her mother kept her constantly on. Her fear of being a failure in her mother's eyes created such a pathology in Casey she even took it so far as to pretend to have a job for 2 years.

It all came to a boil between the 9th and the 15th of June. It became apparent to Casey that she had no way out from under Cindy. But Caylee could have. And that is what she gave her. In causing her death, she was sparing Caylee a life of the same abuse she suffered. What happened afterward was just the symptom of having had to take such drastic measures to get away from her mother.

I am merely attempting to find ANY friggin' way that the defense could spin all this crap in ANY way that we would "understand" finally. Even in my head, fully developed, this story is incredulous. But as we have seen, that seems to be the primary feature of anything in this case. Jose, if you're reading this, please I would appreciate my retainer fee. I'd love to donate it to TES to help recover Caylee's remains.

:clap::clap::clap: Right on.

 

[GreenPoet]

I think she had murderous thoughts and ideas toward Caylee and possibly even toward her parents for a long time.

It is apparent that she has a huge ego and had a grandiose sense that she could get away with anything.

I think she acted on her ideas--and I think her ideas were twisted and chaotic and far from an organized plan, but were premeditated and intentional nonetheless.

 

[Rumpole]

The Breadcrumb Trail

A plan…. Not sure if what she had planned was what you could call a plan but this is sort of my thought in progress… when I listen to tapes and look at what we know…. I do have to wonder.
I posted this on the ‘Lets fid the house that the PI was digging and filming’ thread because once that came to light it is what got me to thinking about ‘was there a plan’. Was this all thunk out ahead of time? No, I don’t think so…. Bits and pieces maybe. I think that Casey had fantasized about what her life would be like without Caylee. There may have been some sort of idea of what she could do to make that a reality but she had not put the idea into an active planning stage yet. The basics may have been there such as staging a kidnapping, leaving clues to support a kidnapping, becoming famous but it was not all laid out.
Whatever the plan was for killing Caylee, it was not fully put together yet but for whatever reason Caylee ended up being killed and now Casey had to do some improvising. That is why it didn’t even come close to working and she is sitting in jail on murder one charges.
If it wasn’t for the 31 day delay in reporting anything, the decomp in the trunk of the car and the cadaver dog hits this might have actually been still been an active ‘kidnapped child’ case at least until a body was found and then even though it would have become a homicide Casey may have been seen as a victim. Casey just did not understand that LE could not be duped and that even though she had been able to get away with lying for years to family & friends..it wasn’t going to work with LE.

Here is what I think her plan was.

The house on Brackenwood Drive was to have been used as part of the whole nanny-kidnapping story that Casey told LE. I think that she thought that her 'clues' would lead LE to this house so they could find something at the house that would bolster her Zanny story. Now Casey becomes the poor mother and gets all of this attention, instant celebrity. Remember the comment to Cindy about her cameo on the news… she is ticked that her mother is the one and it should be her.
Unfortunately the 'clues' were so cryptic that LE could not figure them out. She thought she was being clever. Tell them enough so during the investigation LE would find the house via the name connection.
I have always wondered about the whole Sawgrass Apartment thing and the little tour that Casey took LE on. She was trying to feed them specific information. I think Casey thought that LE would discover something that would lead them back to this house. LE was not getting it and that is one of the reasons that Casey was so upset with them. She could not believe that they didn’t follow what she had laid out for them to follow.
I have just started to put this line of thinking together. I don't have all of the various links for all of the jail house calls with all of the conversations laid out but when you start adding up the way she was so insistent in using the names, the hyphen being so important, some of the conversation with Casey & Lee [paraphrasing] that have the comments that "I gave LE the same information 3 times exactly the same way and you have found out tons more stuff than ever did" and the one with Lee saying "I'll try to get as much out there as I can before anything would ever die." and “they haven’t even found her clothes yet” are a couple of examples of why I think this.
I think that the PI's may have been trying to either find what had originally been left behind for LE to stumble upon because if LE found this now it would incriminate her further; supporting premeditation or the PI’s may have been attempting to jump start the breadcrumb trail so every one would say...Ahha… maybe Caylee was really kidnapped.

I could be way out in left field on this… just kinda of thinking out loud but it would sure make some of what has been going on in this case make sense..
Shadow

I agree that a devious plot all planned out over a long period is nonsense.
I can not even go along with quickly put together "breadcrumbs" theory either. When would she have put even that bit of planning together? My guess for what its worth, is that the killing was an act of rage. Either a blow or smuthering just to shut Caylee up. Then a few days of "thinking"/trying to deal with a dead body. Perhaps fake an accident, but finally with the body decomposing, just dumping it to get rid of it. Dump the smelly car soon after, then esentially get on with "Bella Vida". When CA tracked KC down I think she was surprised and not in the midst of any sort of plan. I think the "Kidnap" was a spur of the moment thing to tell Lee and CA and the story just grew using familiar names, and the power to fabricate stories which was a common feature of KC's life.