What would you rebut? Discuss rebuttal here

[justsharing]

I definitely think the trajectory of the bullet will come into play in rebuttal. No way does her story line up with the evidence. It was more of an execution style.

Nurse, maybe you can tell us: if someone were to receive a bullet wound the way Travis did, would they be able to utter complete sentences? I figured he'd have blood gushing out of his mouth.

So many people dispute the MEs findings but I personally think he knows a lot more than the rest of us. Not to mention if it were that disputable don't you think the DT would bring in their own expert witness to refute it. Perhaps they tried and couldn't find anyone.

I feel very strongly that Juan needs to bring this back in at rebuttal. Hopefully he will bring another ME in to further support Dr. Horns testimony.

 

[walkdmc]

Can we bring this thread up to the front, now that we are starting to hear of specific witnesses?

 

[VALee]

So, ALV testified that in Feb 2008, (testimony 4/3/13) JA went to Las Vegas, back and forth from Mesa, AZ. Well, to do that, you travel US 93, she would have gone through the Hoover Dam check point. HOWEVER, JA told JM that she did not know about the checkpoint until she came upon it after killing TA, that her stopping to clean up and toss evidence was a coincidence. LIE!

Thanks ALV, please do keep talking.

fyi...In 2008, (as a result of 2001 attacks on US) there were checkpoints on both sides of the dam, 1 in Nevada (for southbound traffic), 1 in Arizona (for northbound traffic). Everyone on US93 had to go through a checkpoint depending on their direction of travel. In 2010, they completed and opened a bypass, so now only those specifically going to the Hoover Dam have to go through a checkpoint.
Source: Hoover Dam Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[cosmos]

There's a YouTube video that shows about ten cars going through the checkpoint in a minute. To be fair, it's not something that necessarily gets burned into your memory forever. I went through the checkpoint once myself, and I do remember it, but all they did was use a mirror to look under the SUV and it took a second or two.

Also interesting is that the rules for the checkpoint say you are allowed up to carry five cans of gasoline with five gallons each. This suggests that it isn't all that unusual for Arizonians to carry gas cans, even five of them, if they publish a rule like that for all to read.

 

[nursebeeme]

:bump:

 

[deedee21]

Start with the closet. Jodi was on the stand. JM showed her a zoomed in pic of the closet. Everything was in place. She offered"I put my foot on the edge of the shelf" She saw what everyone else saw. All of Travis's sneakers and shoes were neatly lined up. Surely, if she climbed up on the shelf, something would be knocked out of place. How does someone remember where they put their foot when they are in fear of their life. If she attempted to use a shelf that was propped on pegs, it would have gone flying if she stepped on it. Shes a liar.

 

[Sherazhad]

I'd start with debunking ALV, she's freshest in the jury's mind as the last witness for them. Any decent expert on domestic violence would be able to do that- particularly emphasising that they have great credentials, stayed impartial & didn't send books to JA. Show that JA is the abusive 1, TA is the real victim. Also bring up the fact that ALV said this was worst abuse she ever saw, ask what this expert's experience of the worst abuse they ever saw & compare. Damages ALV's credibility & makes her look silly.
I'd move on to debunking the witness before that- Samuels. Any decent psychologist would be able to do this. Emphasise that for someone with PTSD she sure did have enough wits about her to stage a cover up (& also replay that breezy phone call to TA after she knew he was dead).
Next up would be the Hughes' (either of them or both) to testify their real meaning in the letters about TA. The defence opened the door to their opinion, so walk right through & paint JA as the crazy stalker she was.
After that the computer expert I've heard about. Not sure what goodies he has, but definitely testify no *advertiser censored* on TA's computer.
Walmart person to testify their policy in returned gas cans & how they have no record of any gas cans returned from that time. Not only does it show premeditation with the gas, but shows she's still lying now.
Detective Flores to testify how her new story makes no sense- a mock up of the shelves in TA's closet to prove she couldn't have climbed up them would be great too. Emphasise not TA's gun & how easily JA lied for years.
Coroner- prove that JA did not shoot 1st: not enough blood from the wound & the shell lying on top of blood.
I'm sure that Martinez has better stuff in store that I've mentioned, I think he'll do a great job wrapping it up.

 

[mattfz]

I'd start with debunking ALV, she's freshest in the jury's mind as the last witness for them. Any decent expert on domestic violence would be able to do that- particularly emphasising that they have great credentials, stayed impartial & didn't send books to JA. Show that JA is the abusive 1, TA is the real victim. Also bring up the fact that ALV said this was worst abuse she ever saw, ask what this expert's experience of the worst abuse they ever saw & compare. Damages ALV's credibility & makes her look silly.
I'd move on to debunking the witness before that- Samuels. Any decent psychologist would be able to do this. Emphasise that for someone with PTSD she sure did have enough wits about her to stage a cover up (& also replay that breezy phone call to TA after she knew he was dead).
Next up would be the Hughes' (either of them or both) to testify their real meaning in the letters about TA. The defence opened the door to their opinion, so walk right through & paint JA as the crazy stalker she was.
After that the computer expert I've heard about. Not sure what goodies he has, but definitely testify no *advertiser censored* on TA's computer.
Walmart person to testify their policy in returned gas cans & how they have no record of any gas cans returned from that time. Not only does it show premeditation with the gas, but shows she's still lying now.
Detective Flores to testify how her new story makes no sense- a mock up of the shelves in TA's closet to prove she couldn't have climbed up them would be great too. Emphasise not TA's gun & how easily JA lied for years.
Coroner- prove that JA did not shoot 1st: not enough blood from the wound & the shell lying on top of blood.
I'm sure that Martinez has better stuff in store that I've mentioned, I think he'll do a great job wrapping it up.

there has been a lot of discussion about a re-creation of the closet. Someone with a law background explain to me how in the world this would be admissible.

also there is a lot of discussion about a computer expert testifying that no *advertiser censored* was found on the computer. that I know for a fact would not be admissible. "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" -- in other words, just because I didn't leave dirty dishes in the sink does not mean I didn't make breakfast.

And about the Walmart return policy. I've definitely returned an item or two to Walmart without a receipt. HOWEVER, they made me present a driver's license and sign a receipt for the cash refund I would think that even if the associate rushed through the process, DIDN'T make her present ID and DIDN'T have her sign, the would still be a scan in the system for a gas can. You would have to scan the item to get the drawer to even open. :banghead: So easily rebutted. I am sure the jury did not buy the gas can return story, but it would still be funny to see an employee testify :seeya:

 

[nursebeeme]

bump: it is coming up.. review and add

 

[nursebeeme]

bumping up (could we get to rebuttal this week???!!!)

 

[momof7]

I hope so!

Is there a list of witnesses for rebuttal we expect to hear from?

Thanks Nurse for all your hard work!

K

 

[zoozoo]

Not only that, but there wasn't ONE drop of blood in that closet! If Travis had run through that closet, chasing her with a gunshot wound to the head, there would have been at the very least a couple of blood drops somewhere in the closet.


Eewww... hated to even type that.

He had not been shot in the head yet according to JA's story. Remember she claims, she ran into the closet to get away and TA chased her, but then once in the closet she remembered the gun, got it, went out of closet with him followthence and then she shot him when they were both outside of closet (all her made up story IMO).

 

[Sophieandme]

(besides Walmart, psychologist & Tesaro (sp.?);

Closet shelving

How Jodi's 9mm gun was found strapped to 2nd rental car engine (witness-agency employee that found it)

Knives found in same 2nd rental car thru search warrant the day she was arrested

Confirmation that magazine codes were for Matt McCartney (witness?)

Clarification from Chris Hughes re email

Beauty shop witness re dyed hair and possible brazilian wax

Deanna (since she was such a good friend and former girlfriend of Travis', I'm curious why we haven't seen her). Maybe witnessing some of Jodi's stalker behavior?!?

all I have right now...

 

[Lorelilly]

Rebuttal

At the conclusion of the defendant's case, the plaintiff or government can present rebuttal witnesses or evidence to refute evidence presented by the defendant. This may include only evidence not presented in the case initially, or a new witness who contradicts the defendant's witnesses.

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/p...ucation_network/how_courts_work/rebuttal.html

JM is expected to call Dr. Janeen Demarte to counter an expert testimony on the DV claim.

Dave Hall, a friend of TA, is also expected to be called to testify that TA did not own a gun.

IMO, JM should focus his rebuttal on premeditation and her versions of the killing. With this in mind:

- A different forensic pathologist/medical specialist to testify as to the bullet's trajectory and effect on TA, given JA's version of events. It should not be the ME; the jury has already heard from him, so JM needs another voice to give the same basic information in a different form to refute JA's testimony. Might also ask about body slam and having the 'wind knocked out".

- Testimony regarding the closet shelves; on cross, JA said she only used one hand to grab the gun, but did not touch any shelf. If possible, would want to hear testimony that the crime scene showed no prints or smears from her on the shelves. Also, testimony that it would not be possible to step on the lip of one of these shelves without damaging it or disturbing its contents; most closet shelving systems today will not.

Some things will be best left to closing arguments, especially in the absence of compelling testimony.

Exactly. Once premeditation is proven the Fat Lady will Sing!:rocker:

 

[zoozoo]

Posted this earlier in main thread but it got buried when hearings started today:

Have been rewatching Dworkin's testimony Day 13 (defense forensic computer guy): it seems the pictures defense admitted with JA and sis and JA and dog (to prove JA had brown hair in May 2008) only had "file" info, not "exif" data. The only way to confirm the pics were taken in May 2008 and not before is if there is "exif" data. The "file" data shows the pic was handled in May 2008 (could have been taken earlier and then sent/saved onto memory card in May 2008). IMO these photos were taken earlier and then loaded onto this memory card either so JA could easily upload them to my space , or the camera was new and she loaded photos from computer onto her new camera for easy access, to take to store to make print outs or something. I think JM's forensic computer guy in rebutal will show she is lying about when these photos were taken.

Evidence that supports these photos were taken before May 2008 (likely before May 2007) comes from JA's MySpace page. If you go to her page and look under photos, album called "my photos", you see a collection of photos loaded on February 27, 2007 and ONE OF THOSE PHOTOS is of JA in the same outfit, with the same dog, front of the same brick wall as IN THE PHOTO ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE AS #414 that the defense is claiming was taken in May 2008 showing JA with brown hair. Now, I guess she could have created this album in 2007 on MySpace and then added this one photo in May 2008? I am not sure if that is possible or not. I thought the date under the album reflected the last time the album was updated, but I am not sure. Maybe someone out there knows.

Also, additional information on the photos defense had admitted trying to prove JA had brown hair in May 2008: their exhibit 213 of JA with her sister with the red background (defense claims "file" data says this was taken in May 2008 but no "exif" data exisits to confirm that) looks like it is one in a series of photos one of which was posted on JA's MySpace page in the album called "Family" that was created on May 11, 2007. IMO the defense will be blown out of the water on this photo evidence. JM is going to show these photos with her brown hair were from 2007, not 2008.

At any rate, I think JM is on to this and will prove it in rebuttal. He is going to show that JA lied once again about when these photos with her brown hair were taken. IMO he will be able to prove these were likely taken long before May 2008. This will also bolster his claim that JA died her hair brown AFTER renting the car and BEFORE the nude photos at Travis's house on June 4th. This supports premeditation.

 

[Nore]

bumping up (could we get to rebuttal this week???!!!)

------------------
Yes we will! now that is good news. "Good things come to those who wait".



P.S. Hope I'm right!
:seeya:

 

[MistyM]

And about the Walmart return policy. I've definitely returned an item or two to Walmart without a receipt. HOWEVER, they made me present a driver's license and sign a receipt for the cash refund I would think that even if the associate rushed through the process, DIDN'T make her present ID and DIDN'T have her sign, the would still be a scan in the system for a gas can. You would have to scan the item to get the drawer to even open. :banghead: So easily rebutted. I am sure the jury did not buy the gas can return story, but it would still be funny to see an employee testify :seeya:

i have returned a thing or two from walmart, don't know if they do it everywhere but they usually underline the item you are returning (or circle it) then return your money in the matter of how you gave it (credit, cash, debit)

 

[katydid23]

I think his rebuttal needs to focus upon the premeditation elements. If he can prove her premeditation, and the lies she told on the stand trying to deny she had planned the trip to Mesa, and how she hoped to secretly cruise through Arizona, then the DT fabrication about self defense falls like a house of cards. JMO

 

[Captain86]

I don't know whether this would best in rebuttal or closing, but I believe he should show all the points where Jodi's and ALV's testimony differed. It discredits ALV, but also shows the continued pattern of lies, even when she was on the stand, of Jodi.

The stalking info needs to be made clearer and possibly by some of the women that Jodi contacted/confronted. Show that Travis did not own a gun. No ammo, cleaning kit, or holster. No record of purchases of any of those items. He also needs to clean up the PTSD junk that was presented. The jury may get it already, but like the DV issue, if Juan is the one that presents the credible, compentent, and unbiased witness then his presentation is what will be the one jurors will remember and consider. Also showing no evidence of him being a pedo on his computer or in his home would go a long way to discrediting her. Wasn't his pedo tendencies the cause of their physical confrontation in January? I maybe remembering that wrong, but I thought that the pedo thing and the fight that broke her finger were related. Either way, erasing the pedo claims would also show her lying on the stand (again), and would eliminate her claim that she is now telling the truth. Anything that shows or implies premeditation needs to be presented. I think that the easiest way to show that going to Mesa was her intent all along is by simply showing that the straightest and most direct route to SLC and Mr. Burns would be going across northern Nevada (the way she came back home), not through Las Vegas.

 

[trudy]

Hope JA:

Can focus on premeditation gas cans, hair color, car not in driveway, timing on arrival to Travis's.

Expand crime sceen interpretation.

Provide jurors with a professional psych expert for comparison to DT experts.

Is allowed to show the Hughes' comments made in the 48 hour video where they told Travis they did not want JA in their home around their children.