When Did the Anthony Family Know Caylee was Gone?

[dustyrose46]

That second call is the only thing ( during the call transfer) is the only thing that tells me Cindy is genuine during this call in trying to find Caylee. But we don't know what convo's took place in that car even before the first call after Amy was dropped off. Speculation has no grounds. However, these calls are certainly calls that are initiating threats to turn casey in but for what ? A stolen vehicle and money. The least spoken is that Caylee was truly gone, until the last call. Thats what keeps me suspicious. This family already knew what Casey was up too, and stealing, and funny that she could have been charged if Shirley wanted to press charges, or even the bank wanted to charge her for fraud.

 

[Intermezzo]

BBM

I agree with this and always felt this was the case. I think Casey told her parents it was an accident - and that Caylee died as a result of accident and because of her FEAR of CINDY she made up the story to LE and I believe she made Cindy feel like it was her fault. Like casey did not want to disappoint her mother. I think it was decided then as a family that they would try to find the body before LE to save Casey. They never found the body in time.

and the next best thing was to convice the media that it wasn't really caylee and if it is then Casey didn't put the body there. But no one bothers to explain how a very much alive Caylee who was last in her mother's care ended up in the woods and why her mother didn't seem concerned enough to report her missing - if there is NO NANNY - then how did Caylee go from mommy to dead?

I also think that GA new immediately when he got home and heard the fake nanny story - and his interview with LE and FBI says it all about how darn sure he was that it was the smell of death.

MOO

Hi Mendara
bbm
I think the evolution of the Nanny story only added more weight to what George IMO ALREADY knew

Going back to his LE/FBI interviews..

The moment George opened the car door, at the tow yard, he smelled a smell he had smelled before and knew that the smell was decomposition..yet...as he walked around the car to open the trunk, George hoped and prayed that he would not find Caylee or Casey in it...

Then George drove the car, with a smell he had smelled before, home.
He parked it in the garage, left the windows down, removed the battery, left the garage door open and then he left and went back to work.

Just how does a person, who has the experience and knowledge, that George had, just go back to work...and then Cindy does the same thing?

They both knew Casey was avoiding the family.
They both knew they had neither seen nor heard from Caylee since, June 15 and 16 (depending on their stories)

But instead of acting immediately they went back to work...Casey still avoiding them...Caylee still not heard from...

Obviously I can not comprehend that sort of laissez faire reaction they had immediately after retrieving the car with that smell permeating within.

:twocents:

 

[dustyrose46]

Report on 911 hearing. Watch Casey's eyes, and facial expressions. At first when CA took the stand Casey had daggers for her. She continued on w/ that the entire questioning of Cindy. But just look:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2gLLKOyAE4[/ame]

 

[dustyrose46]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTsHm86u11g[/ame]

More 911 hearing July 15 2010

 

[Intermezzo]

Ah, the million-dollar-question!! I believe that George knew that Caylee was deceased when he was walking back to the trunk of Casey's car praying that it was not "his Caylee." I believe the scene of Casey throwing the gas cans in his face came rushing back to him and not allowing him near her trunk, he knew!

Cindy had "thought" about it before making any 911 calls. She even asked George, basically begging him, to tell her that the smell came from the pizza. I believe Cindy KNEW Casey had killed Caylee by the third 911 call.

I think it is also interesting that both Cindy and George went into the backyard and searched it for Caylee. We know the cadaver dogs hit on, I believe, two places in the backyard. My thinking is that Cindy and George's backyard smelled of decomposition shortly after June 16th, 2008. I believe they searched it because they matched what they had smelled in mid-June to what the smelled in Casey's trunk.

I believe Cindy knew where Caylee's body was by November 2008. Before DC went out into those woods and searched because I believe she sent him out there... and not to look at some old teenage hangout because the hangout was behind the school on the opposite side of the road. DC also made no mention of any psychic telling him to slash into black trash bags... so who told him that Caylee would be in a black trash bag?

I don't think George knew about the DC search until after Caylee's remains were found. Cindy seems to have kept a lot of things from George when it came to her and DC's plotting.

I have two opinions on how Cindy came to find out that Caylee was out in those woods...

First, my opinion is, that Casey never believed that she was going to be indicted without a body. When she was indicted, I believe that she thought she could use the location of the body to get a lighter sentence and claim it was an accident. Big problem, she put duct tape around Caylee's airwaves and she could not allow LE to find her that way. I believe that she told JB that it was an accident. I believe she told them that she panicked and put the duct tape around Caylee's airwaves to make it look like a kidnapping and that she couldn't let LE find her that way. I believe JB sat down with Cindy, with Casey's permission and possibly a note from Casey herself, explaining that it was a tragic accident, but that Casey needed her help. I believe that is when Cindy sent DC out to the woods on Suburban Drive and when he found her... he was to call JOSE! I believe DC's job was going to be to remove any evidence that pointed to Caylee actually being murdered.

My second opinion is a lot like the first one, but I believe that Casey was paranoid with all the searches going on, and knew that someone would eventually find Caylee and she would be D-O-N-E. I believe Cindy was told that it was a tragic accident that got out of hand and that Casey really needed her help. Cindy sends DC out into those woods to search for Caylee and when he found her... he was to call JOSE and then he would be given instructions on how to dispose of Caylee. Or collect her and bring her to a secret location where they would all decide on a respectable way to dispose of Caylee's remains. This is the one I believe most likely happened.

I am so happy that DC never did find her!

Great post!
BBM
And thanks for reminding me that George and Cindy went to search their own backyard for Caylee
I forgot the reason/excuse they gave...did they think Caylee was hiding in her playhouse, in the sandbox...?
Something, some suspicion or realization, lead them to search their own yard before LE did...but then again George, if not both, knew or suspected that would happen once LE was called in...

 

[Intermezzo]

I remember at one point Cindy going to Baez's office, and I think the media caught her leaving, and she looked absolutely devastated. I think that's the day that she learned the true story, that Caylee was in fact dead. I think she knew it in her heart before that, but couldn't admit it. But with Baez in front of her telling her Caylee was dead, I think she couldn't deny it anymore. That, and I think he asked her and George (I can't remember if he was there that day, I just remember Cindy being there) to keep up the Caylee sightings because that would benefit Casey. The last thing Baez wanted at that point was for Caylee's body to be found. I think he was instrumental in DC being sent to almost the exact spot. I don't think Casey told her parents directly. I think she told Baez, and Baez chose to go on a body recovery mission. I do think the A's wanted to, but Casey wouldn't tell them where to look. I think that day, Baez told Cindy where the body was and that it had to be recovered. I think he told her to send DC down there to get it. I don't believe for a second that Baez wasn't complicit in this. He just found a way for it to not be directly connected to him. Too bad DC was never paid, or he might have shut up and never said anything about Baez telling him to call him first if he found a body. If Baez knew nothing about where the body was, why would he say that to DC?

So I think they were in denial until that day at Baez's office, or at least Cindy was. George I think knew before that, but couldn't bring himself to make Cindy see it too. I think any denial after that has been planned in an effort to save Casey at any cost. They know Caylee is dead. Casey is just far more important to them, and they are willing to sacrifice Caylee in many ways to see Casey free. It's mind boggling.

bbm
do you remember the day, or timeframe? I am assuming it was while Casey was out on bond and before her indictment on Oct. 14, 2008.
I'd like to see that video,
I remember a few media video's of Cindy coming and going from Baez's office...

 

[leophoenix]

Right after the phone calls. In the Greta interview when the cops were checking out the place she was saying something to the cops along the lines of, "We already checked under there." This was in reference to the playhouse. Why would a "live" Caylee be under a playhouse? IMO they at least suspected she was gone then.

 

[dustyrose46]

leophoenix
Video Editor, Activist! Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 204

Right after the phone calls. In the Greta interview when the cops were checking out the place she was saying something to the cops along the lines of, "We already checked under there." This was in reference to the playhouse. Why would a "live" Caylee be under a playhouse?


( EXACTLY ! )

 

[dustyrose46]

speaking of the back yard. The yorkies. What if the yorkies found her. Remember Cindy said she was searching for chlorofil, it had something do with her dogs getting sick from eating bamboo shoots or something ? Do you suppose ( as w/ casey) the mistruths halftruths come to light here ?

 

[ynotdivein]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHMNxkI4iMk&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHMNxkI4iMk&feature=player_embedded[/ame] @ 7:55

"I wanted her home the 15th."

:waitasec:

Is it just me, or does this imply that KC/Caylee didn't stay in the Anthony home the night of the 15th?

 

[LolaMoon08]

So if Cindy thinks Caylee is still alive...the million dollar question that everyone asks is: Who was the memorial for then ? uhm, CMA....numero uno ? well why ? If she is innocent then why have a memorial for either ?

Sorry if Im off base in this thread. I don't mean too.

Caylee was deceased when it benefited Cindy. Cindy got to have her little national stage to sing and talk about the love she had for her "three children." She got to control who could be at this memorial and who couldn't. It was her show... and that is all it was.

I think Cindy realized very shortly after the memorial that having a deceased Caylee did not benefit her. The command centers were gone. The money jars were no longer making that beautiful clinking sound she had become so accustomed to. Her foundation was over before it even began.

Everything had now become about Caylee and Casey. Caylee the victim. Casey the murderer. It was no longer about Cindy's eating and sleeping habits. It was no longer about Cindy going door to door searching for her granddaughter. It was no longer about Cindy's scouring the Earth for Caylee sightings. Cindy was simply just another "mother of a murderer."

Casey and Cindy Anthony don't do anything unless it benefits themselves. Cindy's claims that Caylee is alive does not benefit Casey... it benefits herself. The defense is not even claiming that Caylee is alive. They refer to the remains found on Suburban Drive as Caylee's remains.

Claiming that Caylee is alive turns the attention back on Cindy and away from Casey the murderer and Caylee the victim. It's all about Cindy.

Cindy is going to be in for a real rude awakening when this trial is over. All anyone cares about is Justice for Caylee. Once Casey is found guilty and sentenced... no one will care about what Cindy has to say. At least I can say that for myself. I will not care!

They can write their books. I will not read them. They can have their movies made. I will not watch them. I will be waiting for books from Nick Savage. Yuri Melich. JA. LDB. People who were Caylee's voice! If a network is smart, they will wait for these books to make a movie with... and leave Cindy and George completely out of it!

 

[dustyrose46]

Cindy's cell record. Look at the dates of the images that are on her phone, and pay close attention to the age differential of Caylee.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...Y5LmNA&sig=AHIEtbQmUpka3iFrh-z2ZTYBSyeaIei_1Q

 

[dustyrose46]

Why did Cindy post the video from fathers day to casey online ? Remember TL stating he woke up and Casey was crying at the edge of the bed while watching a video ? this was in June. I question that the video was actually that day anyway, and was possibly dubbed somehow. How can an entire family get a date wrong ? However, Caylee was seen with Caylee ( if memory serves those individuals correctly) on June 13th at a bar ? Was that the hip hop night ?

 

[chefmom]

IMO, GA suspected that something was very wrong when he smelled that car, and he knew Caylee was gone when he heard the story about the nanny from KC. He was ex-LE. He knew. As for CA, I believe she also suspected something was very wrong when she smelled that car, feared the worst when she heard KC tell the nanny story, but held onto a glimmer of hope because accepting everything at face value meant that Caylee was dead and KC was her murderer. I believe she accepted that Caylee was gone in November after DC searched the woods. We saw it in her "silent" interview. Everything else has just been covering for KC and trying to keep her out of trouble. JMO.

 

[seeing_eye]

[respectfully snipped]

I agree with the other posters who say that Cindy "knew" as she was making that third 911 call. Everything seemed to fall into place in that window of time: the decomp smell, the abandoned car, Casey acting too casual for a woman whose child was supposedly abducted, the lies, the stolen money, Amy's revelations, the 31 days... All the pieces fit.

IMO, Cindy "knew" before she made that third 911 call. She knew when they picked up the car and smelled the decomp. But I believe Cindy would never have alerted LE about it as long as she thought Casey would be blamed for it. She only made the third 911 call after she heard Casey's story about a babysitter kidnapping Caylee. She thought it was safe to report it as long as they had a scapegoat.

 

[LinasK]

speaking of the back yard. The yorkies. What if the yorkies found her. Remember Cindy said she was searching for chlorofil, it had something do with her dogs getting sick from eating bamboo shoots or something ? Do you suppose ( as w/ casey) the mistruths halftruths come to light here ?

I remember that there was an issue of George spreading Lime/Lyme around on the grass, my guess is probably to try and throw off the scent for the cadaver dogs...

 

[dustyrose46]

I am here to make an apology to the forum, and to WS. I apologize for voicing my strong opinions, and I hope that I did not insult either side. I've read here for the last couple years, and wanted to be apart of a community that is not biased, but can see the full picture in the case.
Thank You for letting be here, and again I apologize.

Sincerely,
Dustyrose46

 

[Amity]

Great post, ITA.

It would also explain (for me) how the "31 day script" piece fits into the puzzle... One could picture some brainstorming session producing such a harebrained idea --- and the plan went off the rails with the whole Amscot/tow company debacle and subsequent 911 call --- and also why ICA would ask CA incredulously "What do you mean you don't know my involvement?"...

I just wonder if CA and GA both found out at different times, and perhaps kept it from each other for some time as well, as they were both so inclined to cover up for ICA...
:waitasec:

Underlined above by me.

I can sooooo relate to this! In my own family we've had several 'crisis' times.

Hubby and I would go to bed. He'd think I was asleep, I'd think he was asleep.
When in reality, we were both, in our own minds, going over 'the facts' of our family crisis situation.
Going over the 'what ifs', trying to put pieces together like a jigsaw puzzle.

On one of those nights, very early in our marriage when a brother-in-law was having a crisis (and when isn't he!), I had what we now call "Sit straight up in bed, Ah-Ha! moment"

Laying in bed, going over the events, all of a sudden something clicked. I bolted into a sit-up position and sure enough, all the pieces started to fit!

Since then, both hubby and myself have had those moments during a family crisis.

I've always wondered if George and Cindy, pretending to be asleep, would each go over their Crisis Du Jour and at separate times came up with the "Ah-Ha!" moment in the still of the night but didn't tell the other.

I think, although George wanted to push what he knew/what he had recently found out/experienced ie; the smell when picking up the car, Casey at home without Caylee the night Cindy found Casey, etc. .... he wanted and probably did push all that to the back of his mind. But laying in bed that first night, I can only imagine the waves of sheer terror he experienced when those thoughts creeped back to the forefront of his thoughts.
I am thinking that he had a 'sit-up/jolted up in bed moment' and that's when I think 'he knew'. HE KNEW!

Cindy, I think she kept her 'Ah-Ha' moment pushed back to the furthest part of her brain. She might have had an Ah-Ha moment but refused to think in that direction.

I think after the first visit to the jail, seeing/talking to her daughter, she had a partial "ah-ha" moment that night.
Still pushing it back though, not wanting, actually, REFUSING to process the possibility. But just because you refuse to process the thought, doesn't mean it's not there, way back, in the dark corners of the mind.
SHE KNEW.

 

[Tulessa]

I am here to make an apology to the forum, and to WS. I apologize for voicing my strong opinions, and I hope that I did not insult either side. I've read here for the last couple years, and wanted to be apart of a community that is not biased, but can see the full picture in the case.
Thank You for letting be here, and again I apologize.

Sincerely,
Dustyrose46

I don't know why you are apologizing. You have brought up some great points and we always welcome other opinions.

 

[Gaia713]

Stepping back over here lately, with the trial date getting closer, the one question that keeps coming back to me is when did the Anthony's really know that Caylee had died? When did they figure out just where the body was?

We do know, and there have been many threads about the "lack of normal" in this household. But Caylee had not been seen by them since Father's day. Since Casey had not been bringing her home for days/ weeks at a time, the fact that they had not seen her, would not have alerted them at first.

After Father's day, Casey showed up with out her, would call and lie about where they really were. At what point did they figure out the baby was gone?

If this has been discussed on a previous thread, Mods, please remove. Thanks

I think Cindy knew when she found Casey WITHOUT Caylee and that was the reason for her hysterical phone call. After all, we know that Cindy never met the "nanny" and had no information on her. That strikes me as odd for a woman who was so devoted to her granddaughter. And surely she would wonder why Casey would drop Caylee off at Cindy's work so Cindy could take her home with her when she had a "nanny." I'm sure there were times when the grandparents were watching Caylee that they needed to do something that would be inappropriate to bring a small child along - so wouldn't they have accessed the "nanny" that Casey had been using since Caylee was born? Cindy was in cover-up mode from day one. Too mad she let her hysteria get hold of her in her 911 call. She can't (no matter how hard she has tried) unring THAT bell.