Where did John go....

[UKGuy]

I know about the blood on the pink nightie. But there was no blood on the white blanket. The above post (from the Bonita Papers) state the pink nightie was found bundled up inside the white blanket. Of course, in the only photos we have seen, it is laying on top of it. Bit we don't know if that was the only photo taken of the white blanket in situ, and I doubt it was. Is it written in any official LE report that the blanket was inside or on top of the blanket when police first came into the WC? FW of course, has to have seen whether it was inside or on top. JR allegedly unwrapped JB from the blanket when he found her, and FW was right behind him.
I wish we knew more about the blood on the nightie. How much? What part of the nightie? On the sleeve (where it could have seeped from her nose or mouth)? Or on the areas that would indicate it came from her vagina? We don't know. The blood on the pink nightie is the single thing that makes me have some doubt she put the longjohns on when she got home. If whatever caused her to bleed from the vagina also caused the blood to be on the nightie, then that is an argument for the longjohns and shirt being put on her after that injury. But because of the urine stains and the position down the front of the longjohns and panties, she was lying down on her stomach when she voided that urine, probably at death. The presence of the pink nightie is yet another frustrating piece of a puzzle that seems to have no way of solving.

I know about the blood on the pink nightie. But there was no blood on the white blanket.

Exactly my point. Now the only other reference to bloodstains were her shirt, her body and underwear e.g. size-12's. So tantalisingly, although the BPD know the location of those nightgown bloodstains and we do not. Lets assume at one point JonBenet was dressed in all three, then its possible the bloodstains are prior to the longjohns arriving? And that the barbie nightgown was bloodstained either as a result of an actual sexual assault or/and the staging of the latter?

Curiously the bloodstains are cataloged as #17A, #17C Bloodstains from nightgown, From which I assume there is a bloodstain #17B, or more?

Also according to the above and courtesy of Tom Haney:

20 PATSY RAMSEY: That is a Barbie doll under

21 there.

22 TOM HANEY: It appears from the waist down

23 you can see that much, but from the waist up, because

24 of the plastic, there is a flash and the reflection

25 that is washed out.

We have a white blanket wrapped around a pink barbie nightgown inside of which is a barbie doll.

I guess there are no bloodstains on the barbie-doll?

If whatever caused her to bleed from the vagina also caused the blood to be on the nightie, then that is an argument for the longjohns and shirt being put on her after that injury.

Sure and the urine release is not inconsistent with the above since it comes after the sexual assault and cleanup. Was it you who cited something about dead people and bleeding?

The presence of the pink nightie is yet another frustrating piece of a puzzle that seems to have no way of solving.

Sure , but its presence along with the doll means any IDI theory has a lot of explaining to do?


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[UKGuy]

From the Bonita Papers:

They also found bundled inside the blanket a child's pink Burble nightgown. A red Swiss army knife was also found lying in the corner of the room away from the blanket. BBM

The Bonita Papers - Forums For Justice

I wonder if this could have been the reason behind JR's comment of "that wasn't supposed to be there"? Maybe static had attached it to the blanket and the "stager" did not see it.

joeskidbeck,

Thanks for this. Seems there is no definitive description of where this was found. Notably Fleet White never mentioned anything about the pink nightgown or barbie doll. Just the duct tape, which he probably realised was old and had been reused e.g. suggesting staging?

So was the function of the white blanket, as I mentioned before, to hide forensic evidence?



.

 

[DeeDee249]

It was me. Dead people don't "bleed" but blood can ooze a bit before it gels. BTW, when the blood gels, livor mortis is fixed at that point. And of course, any significant wound inflicted while alive would produce blood leaking from the body.

 

[UKGuy]

It was me. Dead people don't "bleed" but blood can ooze a bit before it gels. BTW, when the blood gels, livor mortis is fixed at that point. And of course, any significant wound inflicted while alive would produce blood leaking from the body.

DeeDee249,

So assuming there is no postmortem oozing? Its likely the bloodstains are prior to the longjohns.

Also, rhetorically, no bloodstains on the longjohns just her size-12's, how come?


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[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,

So assuming there is no postmortem oozing? Its likely the bloodstains are prior to the longjohns.

Also, rhetorically, no bloodstains on the longjohns just her size-12's, how come?


.

There was only a very tiny amount of blood on the panties- a few drops. I believe whoever put the panties on was never aware of the blood drops. They were put on her clean, and there was not enough blood that oozed to stain the longjohns as well. So there was no blood visible just looking at her. The blood is described as being "on the inner aspect" of the crotch of the panties. It did not bleed through to the other side. There was semi-fluid blood found in her vagina at the autopsy. Again, no great amount found there, but NO blood at all should be found in the vagina of a child. That semi-fluid blood, not yet completely coagulated, was probably the source of the drops of blood on the panties.

 

[BOESP]

Wasn't the vaginal semi-liquid described as semi-liquid light red fluid?

Does anyone know what color Desitin Ointment is?

What I'm suggesting is, based on the autopsy wording, the semi-liquid may not have been blood.

 

[SunnieRN]

Desitin is white. Like a paste consistency almost.

 

[BOESP]

Wasn't the vaginal semi-liquid described as semi-liquid light red fluid?

Does anyone know what color Desitin Ointment is?

What I'm suggesting is, based on the autopsy wording, the semi-liquid may not have been blood.

 

[Ames]

my bold

Is there a source for 'no one sees him for 80 minutes'? Do you have any statement from those people you mentioned, aside from LA, (victim advocates and multiple friends) as to whether he was present or not?

BTW this was also after the deadline for the call and even the CSI had left.

I don't know if it was after the deadline for the call had passed or not...but, I know that if my daughter was kidnapped, I would sit by that phone all day long, if I needed to. Maybe the kidnappers hit a snag...got got in traffic, etc. You just don't throw up your hands and say..."OH well...the call didn't come at the time that it was supposed to, so I will just go and look through my mail, or disappear for awhile." The call...if it had of been a REAL kidnapping....COULD have eventually came, even if it wasn't at the appointed time.

 

[Ames]

Wasn't the vaginal semi-liquid described as semi-liquid light red fluid?

Does anyone know what color Desitin Ointment is?

What I'm suggesting is, based on the autopsy wording, the semi-liquid may not have been blood.

I have raised three children...Desitin is white, and sorta pasty or sticky. So that it will stay put, on a child with diaper rash.

 

[txsvicki]

Wasn't it said that blood had been wiped from the thighs where they originally thought there might be semen?

 

[madeleine]

it's been said that he was away for about an hour.wouldn't someone have noticed it though,one of the friends?it's unusual.if LA was worried about him being missing why didn't she ask around,maybe someone saw him.too bad she came forward with this "concern" of hers so late,too late.

 

[MurriFlower]

it's been said that he was away for about an hour.wouldn't someone have noticed it though,one of the friends?it's unusual.if LA was worried about him being missing why didn't she ask around,maybe someone saw him.too bad she came forward with this "concern" of hers so late,too late.

Just another red herring I think, maddy.

 

[SunnieRN]

it's been said that he was away for about an hour.wouldn't someone have noticed it though,one of the friends?it's unusual.if LA was worried about him being missing why didn't she ask around,maybe someone saw him.too bad she came forward with this "concern" of hers so late,too late.

People noted Johns strange behavior that day. He isolated himself. He didn't interact with the victim advocates, Patsy or his friends that were present. Maybe he was trying to figure how he was going to throw them all under the bus!

From this article:
By Todd Hartman, Rocky Mountain News
August 26, 2006

• Ramseys behavior: Some Boulder police think John and Patsy acted oddly on the day JonBenet's body was discovered. They say the couple didn't comfort each other. They wondered why John was off by himself and why Patsy covered her face and peeked through her fingers. Police also point to the Ramseys' resistance to formal police interviews until four months after the murder as highly suspicious. A Ramsey spokesman blasts the police analysis of the couple's behavior, asking just how parents were supposed to act in such a situation.

From a Denver Post Article:
By Karen Augé and Marilyn Robinson
Denver Post Staff Writers

April 10

Thomas believes, though, that John Ramsey did lie about when he found JonBenét's body in the basement of the family's home. Ramsey was unaccounted for, according to Linda Arndt, the only detective on the scene at the time, for about an hour the morning of Dec. 26.

"Frankly, I think that's when he found the body," Thomas said last week.

Later, when Arndt asked Ramsey and former family friend Fleet White to search the house again, Ramsey "made a beeline" for the tiny dark room where his daughter's body lay.

Thomas said Ramsey's son, John Andrew Ramsey, told investigators his father told him that day that he had found JonBenét's body at 11 a.m. It was after 1 p.m. when Ramsey carried JonBenét's body from the basement.

Anyway, there are a lot more examples. I listed the last one, due to the statement concerning JAR. Was this an error? Interesting for sure.

 

[DeeDee249]

Wasn't the vaginal semi-liquid described as semi-liquid light red fluid?

Does anyone know what color Desitin Ointment is?

What I'm suggesting is, based on the autopsy wording, the semi-liquid may not have been blood.

The semi-fluid substance was blood in the process of becoming gel-like after death. Desitin ointment is white, thick and pasty. It is made with zinc. Easily tested for. None was found. Blood (stated in the autopsy as BLOOD) was found on the forchette, part of the vagina, as well as other areas.
Desitin is used for diaper rash. It coats the skin and prevents urine from burning the skin. It would not be used for the type of irritations JB had and never used internally. It has a distinctive sweet odor and a coroner would not mistake it for a body fluid, but would note it as a foreign substance, as he did with the birefringent material.
I am always stunned when anything else is suggested in order to avoid the ONE thing we are all SURE of- she was assaulted by someone with enough force to cause bleeding. Blood in the vagina, blood on her thighs and external pubic area. REAL blood, tested and determined by a coroner to be HER BLOOD. It wasn't diaper cream, bubblebath or anything else. It was BLOOD.

 

[Ames]

I don't know if it was after the deadline for the call had passed or not...but, I know that if my daughter was kidnapped, I would sit by that phone all day long, if I needed to. Maybe the kidnappers hit a snag...got got in traffic, etc. You just don't throw up your hands and say..."OH well...the call didn't come at the time that it was supposed to, so I will just go and look through my mail, or disappear for awhile." The call...if it had of been a REAL kidnapping....COULD have eventually came, even if it wasn't at the appointed time.

Okay...I meant to say..."GOT STUCK in traffic".