Where Precisely Do You Think Caylee Died?

[Tuffy]

No, the dogs were not taken into the house. That's something I'll just never understand. Why didn't they bring the dogs into the house? Search warrant issues? Does anyone have any ideas?

I think it would have to be a search warrant issue because I just can't see any other reason.

If the Anthony's would let the dogs go inside, I don't see why the cops didn't get a search warrant. I don't know, to me it seems like it should be pretty important. I can't imagine why a judge wouldn't grant that.

 

[Ripley007]

If Casey herself never buried a pet of her own, but participated in her friend's pet burials, perhaps that's where she got the idea of using a heart sticker.

Well, that's my point. IF you belive Kio, the fact remaining is that KC got this notion of placing a heart sticker on the dead thing from her childhood experiences. It just drives me up the wall when I read posts where people have only read partial facts and they "think" KC buried some of her own pets in this makeshift "pet cemetary" when in fact she NEVER DID! Don't even get me started on the FACT that Caylee's body WAS NOT found in that same exact location. CLOSE, yes, but NOT exact. Now, here's my own personal "wonderings"...Despite the FACT that KC had friends who buried Dead Pets with a heart sticker, it's really HARD NOT for me to not think that KC saw ZG at Sawgrass Apts on 6/17/08. And ZG has a huge heart tattoo on one of her hands. To ME, it's quite possible that KC placed the heart sticker (forgetting about her childhood friends pattern) in an effort to FRAME Sawgrass ZG. JMHO (yes, I am aware I am alone in this thought process-WHATEVER. Just because others don't see my way thinking-doesn't change My point of view.)

 

[songline]

I voted car...Very early on there was a sighting of KC in some hotel parking lot she was pacing and acting strange...She seemed to be alone, not with Caylee; This was a very old post...
And the sighting was very very early on...and shortly after she left her home maybe even that night?

I remember having a reaction when reading That.
I think I said something about her being scared and not knowing what to do when it happened.

I still think Caylee died in the car and that was the night.
Sure do not remember where that post would be now....

 

[patcorn]

I wish could change my vote.
I initially thought that Caylee most likely died at home after the argument that no doubt happened on Father's day. But now after seeing this video:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX8F7TxX8OA&feature=related"]YouTube - WFTV News: New Insight Into Possible Motive For Caylee's Death 5 19 09[/ame]
I think she most likely died in the car. And this is what I think happened.

Cindy was fed up with her lying and stealing and she really had it out with her. I do believe there was a physical altercation and CA did in fact choke her. She threatened to take custody of Caylee and that was a huge blowup. After that, Casey grabbed up the baby and left the house (hence, the no shoes found with her remains)

She left in the car and had really no place to go. The next day her and Caylee went to walmart to buy shoes and this is where the Techbay guy saw them. She was still pissed of from yesterday and was being extremely evil to Caylee. Caylee died soon after this and Casey placed her in the trunk. She then panicked because there is a big difference in planning on doing something to harm her and actually doing it. She didnt care that she was gone, she just wanted the "ends to justify the means", meaning she didnt want to pay for what she did. After placing her in the trunk she sat and thought of a way out. The thought up the babysitter story and gave a call to this JH. She only let the phone ring a couple of times. She needed to show,for the record, that she called but she did not want to really speak with anyone. Caylee remained in the trunk for a few days as Casey went from place to place staying here and there and texting like crazy from guilt. I believe some nights even sleeping in the car and eating there. Still she was thinking of a way to cover this all up. But the smell was getting bad. This is when she decided to try and burn the car or just the body. One idea could have been to make it look like an accident. Maybe the car had a gas leak and caught fire. If she could get Caylee back into the car and set fire to it and say that maybe she just couldnt get her out of the carseat, then she would be seen as an innocent grieving mother and Caylees remains would be burned beyond much recognition making the real cause of her death unknown.

She started to think of ways to get gas. She knew there was some in the garage at the A's house but the garage was locked. So she and AL went and broke in and took them. Him believing it was fine and knowing nothing of Caylee being dead and in the trunk. Another thing that was now granted to her was the use of the garage. Somewhere she could be alone with the body away from prying eyes and she could then acess the "situation." She probably never opened the trunk again since she killed her before now.


She later returned to the A's home without AL. She backed into the garage, closed it and then opened the trunk to acess the "situation". Here she did a quick cleanup job. This is the only place she could go to be alone with the trunk in an enclosed space and had supplies available to her. She went inside and searched for trash bags. She went back to the garage. Covered Caylees mouth and nose with the tape, cutting the pieces first and laying them on the gas can to rest. She was in a rush and worked quickly leaving some of the tape on the cans. After placing the tape, she placed her inside the garbage bag. She noticed how obvious the body looked inside the trunk. She looked around and saw the laundry bag. She grabbed it and placed her inside, threw the cans in and was gone.

She later spoke to CA who told her that the cans were reported stolen which threw a wrench into that plan and she knew she should probably stick with the plan to blame this babysitter. She knew that she was known to steal and was suspected in stealing the cans and couldn't have the car catch fire now. She returned to the house and this is when she had the argument with her dad. He wanted something out of the trunk because he knew the cans were probably in there. She was taken by surprise and hurried to race past him before he could get there. She opened the trunk, threw the cans at him and took off because she knew the smell was getting worse and she wanted him nowhere near the body. This is where, I'm not sure if the father followed her and a chase persued or not. But this incident she was running scared. She quickly drove to the site not too far from the house and dumped the body very quickly by the side of the road. :furious:

 

[Kat]

I vote the pool.

Caylee was wearing a swim diaper and no shoes. Cadaver dogs hit in yard. They never hit in the house.

Tracy McL said she heard conversation about Casey using shovel in the pool to get "ladder".

After Caylee drowned, Casey put her on the side of the pool, panicked and tried to bury her, but the ground was too hard so she moved her inside the playhouse(dogs hit both places).

Casey left her in the playhouse while items from house, winnie pooh blanket, heart sticker and trash bag were gathered.

The location of washer & dryer is in the garage, therefore laundry bag (and duct tape) were handy when car was backed into garage where Caylee was then placed in trunk to be transported.

Doesn't make sense any other way....jmho

A long time ago I had voted in this poll (if not this one there was another IIRC) and I had chosen the pool as well. (the reason being IIRC Caylee hadn't been found yet).

I do like your scenario and I do think it is viable. If not exactly where Caylee died/was murdered, then the pool may have come into play ~ in that there is an outside chance that Caylee was already deceased and KC placed her in the pool to try to cover her death/murder in making it look like she died in the pool by drowning ~ for whatever reason, KC changed her mind ~ and then your outline could very well be what happened next. Movement of a deceased body around the yard ~ and ultimately into the trunk of the car.

All in all something to consider given the hits in the back yard. KWIM?

I always found it peculiar that CA made mention of a potential drowning in her jailhouse convo's with KC.

I'm sorry that I don't often post to Caylee's threads and I do try to read but do not follow Caylee's case as closely as others do. I was unaware that there was a swim diaper found with Caylee. Is that in the docs? TIA for having patience with me.

 

[suepitzl]

In the trunk, if there was any life left in her poor little body.

 

[Chiquita71]

I used to think that Casey took Caylee and stormed out of the house after the fight with Cindy on the 15th, and then killed Caylee in the car somewhere that night.

However, after the ping information was released, it became clear that Casey wasn't anywhere very far away from home that night. She could have been in the car, but only if the car was parked at home or close to it, because we now know that she was close to the Anthony home all night, on the phone with Ton-E into the wee hours. So now I think Caylee was killed at home, most likely in Casey's bedroom.

Cindy's statement about hearing Casey and Caylee breathing through the door that night has always bothered me. Something is wrong there, but I can't quite put my finger on it. When I still believed they had left the house, I thought Cindy was just trying to cover for the fact that they weren't there. But now that I believe they WERE there (based on the pings), I can't figure out what Cindy heard, or what she is trying to accomplish by saying she heard them breathing through the door. I don't believe for a second that they were sleeping and she really could hear them "breathing" through a closed bedroom door, especially since I know Casey wasn't asleep, since she stayed up talking to Ton-E! So why did Cindy use the word "breathing"? Was it a subconscious effort on her part to convince herself that Caylee was, in fact, still "breathing" at that time? Did she hear something significant at the time, or did she really hear nothing? Trying to make sense of Anthony lies is just baffling. LOL.

Respectfully Quoted Talison
BBM

All this week I have had the strong idea(thinking of all information)that Casey killed Caylee at home on June15th/16th. And, until now-rereading this thread I didn't connect up Casey not wanting to sleep in her room(I didn't pay that info any attention)and the idea that she may have killed Caylee in her room. It just adds more to what I am thinking anyway.

I added a thank you to this post the first time I read it, and I still feel the same. It is almost word for word what my 'intuition' is telling me or what picture the information/evidence creates in my mind.

Cindy originally says June 8th/9th because that's when Casey first started "keeping Caylee away" or being more difficult regarding Cindy with Caylee. But, that was in response to Cindy getting more tough about Casey "going out all the time and not being responsible for Caylee and the stolen money, etc." Casey bringing Caylee to George and Cindy's on the 15th June(Father's Day)was something Casey couldn't "deny"-she let Cindy have Caylee like Cindy wanted but went to Tony's, herself. Cindy was back home and expecting Casey to be there too but Casey was hard to get home and when she came she was still distracted on the phone/computer. Cindy and Casey fight. It gets physical? Casey takes Caylee into her room. WSers are right to say Caylee was fussing, and Casey was mad...

I get confused as to the details of in the bedroom. But, I think at some point-after talking to Casey in jail-Cindy (and George) realized that Casey had killed Caylee at home on that night. So that is why Cindy made that comment about "hearing both of them breathing" to cover that she later realized (that morning) was "weird" with them behind the door because that must have been when Casey killed Caylee. And why George is lying about seeing them. George and Cindy did not know right away that Casey had killed Caylee that night, it hit them later for maybe some of these reasons:

The pooh blanket.
That Cindy(after June 15th)saw Casey's clothes being taken but not Caylee's and even questioned her about it-Casey saying, "Zanny has clothes or buys clothes for Caylee."
The laundry bag.
What Caylee was wearing when she was found.

And, after having said all that-I now get the idea that she would have taken off, if that mad. Why would she run in her room? (Maybe no where to go, had to text first?) I feel solid in the fact that a fight/fighting over Casey/Caylee with Cindy was going on-and that Caylee died either late June 15th or early June 16th but did Casey stay or did she go? Maybe it is a combo of both? I think a WSer's theory was "it started in the bedroom and ended in the car/trunk."

Cindy's statement still fits when we think Casey took off-she was trying to establish that Casey had never and didn't "take off" with Caylee. Cindy was saying she always knew where her girls were sleeping. Or where they were that night. (paraphrased, sorry.)

Maybe it's a simple lie of the truth being the opposite: Cindy said she could hear them breathing because she didn't want anyone to know that Casey left with Caylee that night and Cindy had no idea where they went?

I am not stuck on any of this, just can't stop trying to figure out what happened.

ETA: I just remembered that Cindy originally said that Casey and Caylee had "gone off on a vaction" together so they could "bond." And Cindy tells LE that she was in contact or knew that Casey was in Jacksonville but also says that she noticed Casey's stuff would be missing but not Caylee's. So maybe the best answer is: both. Casey went in the room and started something and then waited for Cindy and George to go to sleep to leave. She then later called Cindy/George and told them she would have to go out of town for work-and that is when George and Cindy really started having no contact with Caylee. Not even on the phone. George and Cindy look back and say, "that was really the last time we ever saw Caylee. When Casey stormed into her room and the next morning they were gone." They had to say that the last time they saw their granddaughter everything was normal and fine. If they were to say: Casey, in anger, took Caylee into her room and George and Cindy never saw her again- it sounds bad.

:cow:

 

[jon_burrows]

One other thing I've always thought was strange about the breathing comment was the layout of the house. The master bedroom is on the opposite side of the house and right next to the garage. The neighbor said that George and Cindy parked their cars in the garage. It seems odd that Cindy would even pass by Casey's room on her way to work, let alone stop and listen to see if she heard breathing.

 

[miss plum]

Unless Cindy was uneasy after whatever happened the night before, and wanted to be sure they were still there. Maybe Casey had threatened to leave, or to hurt Caylee, maybe she said, I'll kill her (or kill us both?) before I let you have her. So Cindy listened through the door, and heard what she wanted to hear, whether she heard it or not.

 

[SarahR]

I dont find it so strange, only because every night i stand by my wee one's door's until i hear them breathing, ive done it since they first went into their own room, if one didnt talk in their sleep and the other snore i'd probably still have baby monitors lol

 

[marspiter]

I would like to vote for in Casey's hands and under Casey's direct supervision.

 

[jon_burrows]

I dont find it so strange, only because every night i stand by my wee one's door's until i hear them breathing, ive done it since they first went into their own room, if one didnt talk in their sleep and the other snore i'd probably still have baby monitors lol

I understand checking on little ones but Caylee slept with Casey. Casey was what, 21/22 years old at the time? I just can't fathom any reason why a perfectly healthy adult mother would need her mother checking on her outside her bedroom door while she slept.

 

[ZsaZsa]

In their pool. Deliberately. I think she planned to call it an accident and then panicked, and moved her to the trunk of her car to think...

 

[jon_burrows]

I would like to vote for in Casey's hands and under Casey's direct supervision.

I'll second that vote.

 

[miss plum]

I'll second billion that vote.

 

[hornswoggled]

I vote for the car for one reason: The Mama doll left in the back seat of the car.

I cannot see Casey removing a living, crying, kicking Caylee from the car without her little doll. And she would have been having a fit if her Mama doll were left behind. Casey does what is most convenient and expiedient for herself. Simply handing the doll to Caylee would have been easiest for Casey. Therefore, the only way in my mind that Caylee would not have had a screaming fit over her doll being left is if she were unconscious or worse.........

 

[Chiquita71]

I vote for the car for one reason: The Mama doll left in the back seat of the car.

I cannot see Casey removing a living, crying, kicking Caylee from the car without her little doll. And she would have been having a fit if her Mama doll were left behind. Casey does what is most convenient and expiedient for herself. Simply handing the doll to Caylee would have been easiest for Casey. Therefore, the only way in my mind that Caylee would not have had a screaming fit over her doll being left is if she were unconscious or worse.........

Respecfully Quoted hornswoggled
Not BBM

If Casey did (at least start to)kill Caylee in her bedroom and then took her out to the car, I would think she would at least remember to take Caylee's mama doll because that would be too suspicious. Maybe I am giving too much credit, she didn't take enough clothes to not seem suspicious-so I don't know.

Maybe even taking the mama doll would be an "automatic" for Casey. She did take a few of Caylee's items...and (sorry) alive or dead that would be a Caylee item high on the list.

But you would think she would have disposed of the mama doll with Caylee. I am sure other WSers have hit on this already but that is a new thought for me. Even if Casey took Caylee to stay with the nanny like she claims, wouldn't Caylee take her favorite doll/toy with her? Why would the doll still be in the car? Am I missing something obvious?

TIA

:cow:

 

[Eidetic]

I wouldn't put it past Casey to have murdered Caylee out of spite in George and Cindy's master suite. Caylee seemed to love being in their room, there are so many photos as evidence to back that up.

Closest to the garage for a lazy girl to gain the quickest access to the trunk with Caylee's lifeless body and the garage is probably where the A's kept their duct tape and laundry bags.

 

[Eidetic]

Come to think of it, beyond the video of Caylee as an infant, have we seen any images of Caylee in Casey's room?

I think Caylee probably really slept in George and Cindy's room.

All the pandas all over their room...

Wonder if the air mattress was really purchased for George so Cindy and Caylee could have the bed.

 

[Marina2]

I keep thinking of the descriptions George gave of the shirt Caylee was wearing when he last law her. He described the sleeves in a strange way... first, sleeves with like a flap on it (paraphrasing). I couldn't understand what he was talking about when he said this. Then, in the State's deposition he described it as pinkish, with slight little sleeves on it. I still couldn't picture this until the other day when I was looking at that picture of Caylee on the couch that was put on the missing childrens poster. In that picture, Caylee is wearing a pajama top, pinkish with little "cap" sleeves on it. The shirt is exactly what Ga describes, pinkish with slight sleeves. I don't know when this picture was taken but could it be that Ga described the pajama top that Caylee was wearing on the 15th, the same one that is in that picture? Maybe that is when he last saw Caylee, the night of the 15th, when he came home from work.

Also, in one of Ca's first interviews with the media, she is asked "Where were Casey and Caylee on the night of the 15th?" Ca answers, "I know where one of them was because I tucked her in". Later, she changed the story to "I tucked both of them in that night". I believe her first answer; she tucked Caylee in. Not only did she tuck Caylee in but half of her answer in her deposition about watching Desperate Housewives with Caylee and KC that night was true. She probably laid down with Caylee in KC's bed to get her to go to sleep. While waiting for her to fall asleep, she watched Desperate Housewives. Cindy had to do this because Caylee wouldn't go to sleep alone in that bed. I think after the alleged fight that night, KC stormed out of the house. She returned sometime after Ga came home and killed Caylee right there in that bedroom. There are so many changing stories about that night and early the next morning that I feel sure it happened that night, in KC's bedroom. In retrospect, Ca and Ga know this too and that's why they won't commit to anything and their stories keep changing.

I also think that Ca forbid KC to take the car that night and that is why she stayed home. The next day, she waited for Ga to leave and took (stole according to Ca in her 911 call) the car anyway. She had to; Caylee was in the trunk. That's why they took the battery out when they finally got the car back. They thought she might take it again.