Where Precisely Do You Think Caylee Died?

[RainyGirl]

CA as an RN is required by law to report ANY case of suspected child abuse or neglect,period,failure to do so is a crime,whether or not you are the grandparent.I am an RN in the state of AZ,but I do know that this is a req of THE jOINT COMISSION no matter where you live!!!!!Doing drugs and taking your child to parties where drugs are is enough to have your child taken away!!!!

ITA! Cindy was a 'mandated reporter' and this is nationwide for many professions (medical practitioners, school teachers, etc.).
I am a certificated teacher in WA. state and required to take Child Abuse refresher courses every few years to keep with regulations. I just completed a course last summer and relatives of the minor child in question are not exempt from reporting any suspected abuse or neglect.

IMO, I think Caylee died in the trunk of a car. Her mother's car.

 

[seekingjustice**]

Why didn't Cindy go to her personal phonebook during the 31 days Caylee was missing, and go to ZFG home to get Caylee. If she had the address and the phone number what stopped her?

Great question Cat. From memory I think Cindy did at one time try to ring the 'fake' number number that KC had given her in July.

It doesn't make sense though does it. No matter how much Cindy spins her reality to us, we all know she already had big concerns about KC with her stealing and lies and god only knows what else way prior to July 15. Her conversations with a Counsellor, her mother Shirley, some workmates etc, just prove this..

So realistically, I would think a mother whose daughter had previously and recently shown herself to be a massive liar and thief would have cottoned on much earlier and not gone along with the KC bull**.

 

[Chiquita71]

I doubt there is any state in which grandparents are required to report child abuse/neglect, and of course failure to report is not the same as committing child abuse/neglect yourself in any event.

Also, Casey herself could never have been convicted of child abuse/neglect based on the information we know pre-June 16. She had no job, but no need for one as her expenses were taken care of. She had no sitter, but no need for one as she had no job. She had a place to live--with Cindy and George. And partying is not considered child abuse/neglect. I very much doubt that Cindy could have gotten custody of Caylee, unless she kicked Casey and Caylee out of the house and Casey then demonstrated that she was unable to care for Caylee (by, e.g., mooching off others, actually getting a job, etc.).

Quote Respect AZlawyer
BBM

Didn't SP say that Cindy had gotten that almost exact advice from a (therapist?). Now that I read what you wrote I could see that maybe Cindy did get advice to this effect: there's not much you can do unless you kick her out and she were to "fail". IIRC Cindy tells SP she can't kick Casey out because of Caylee.

What's running around in my mind lately is the trigger June 15th maybe goes like this: "okay, we're going and you'll never see your granddaughter again"(Casey runs into room with Caylee).

And Cindy never saw Caylee again. I think Casey and Cindy(sometimes George)communicated in a limited way from June 15th. Sometimes they even saw Casey(George on gas can day)and they knew she had been taking her stuff. Casey equals Caylee(so they figure Caylee is okay), but Casey is really being a "spiteful b!" After a week or so the anger may have abated and Casey may have said, "my daughter and I need to bond"-there was a point when Casey had to give some really good reasonable reasons why Cindy could not communicate with Caylee. Maybe those are all of Cindy's "inconsistencies": i.e Hard Rock Hotel, Jacksonville, Busch Gardens, Car accident, bonding, etc.

And, reading that some WSers feel that Caylee slept in Cindy's room makes me think that is why Cindy talked about hearing them breathing "through the door." Maybe Cindy makes the unusual statement because it was an unusual situation that she wouldn't have Caylee in bed with her.

LE took part of Casey's mattress as evidence, IIRC. Had LE collected the mattress when Cindy made that statement? Just wondering.

ETA: I should say that I have no disagreement with those who are saying "in the car" because the name of this thread is "precisely" and I do think it started in the bedroom(I could be swayed easily on all of this)but ended in the trunk. Those that say "car" are they saying it "all" happened in the car? And, is that just duct tape or is some kind of other act involved? Like giving Caylee something to knock her out?

I can't help that my mind won't stop trying to figure this out. Really I have tried to stop and let this go-but I don't.

...jmo...

 

[crucibelle]

I think Caylee died in the pool. Second choice would be KC's room. I also think that KC had help disposing of the body... just my personal opinion.

 

[Dignity4Victims]

I think Caylee died in the pool. Second choice would be KC's room. I also think that KC had help disposing of the body... just my personal opinion.

I fully believe she acted alone, but do you have someone in particular in mind who you think helped Casey dispose of Caylee's body?

I also don't believe Caylee died in the pool, mainly because it would have been just too 'coincidental' that Caylee died by accident at the very same time the anger was jacked up to an extremely volatile level in that house between Cindy and Casey.

Casey was horribly jealous of Caylee, jealous of the attention Caylee received from Cindy, and likely, jealous of the attention Cindy received from Caylee as well. So much so, that she blabbed to her friends about it.

 

[jon_burrows]

I think Caylee died in the pool. Second choice would be KC's room. I also think that KC had help disposing of the body... just my personal opinion.

Just curious, why do you think she had help disposing of the body?

 

[ynotdivein]

As a repeat fftopic: offender myself, I humbly submit that we may want to stick with "where Caylee died" for this thread and keep "who assisted KC" and other such items to their own threads?

Granted this topic leads us directly into *why* we believe in one spot or another... but with much respect for my fellow sleuthers I don't want to see this thread devolve as others have. Maybe start new threads or continue on the theories as to what happened to Caylee thread?

:truce:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70517"]Accomplice theories thread here[/ame]

 

[TrY]

Wow, this is a difficult choice. I think Caylee died in her own home but which room? I'm going to go with Caylee's bedroom. Not that I think Casey would have any guilt if she did it in her own bedroom. I'm thinking whatever was the most convenient place in Casey's mind is where she would have killed Caylee. Since I think she did it at home when nobody was around I would say that it was in Caylee's bedroom.

But it's the what did she do immediately afterwards that I want to know too.

I think it was done at home because that's where all the supplies she needed to kill Caylee and dispose her body. She had to get the duct tape, (and chloroform if that's what she used too) plastic garbage bags, the laundry bag, the baby blanket.

 

[gngr~snap]

Yeah I don't think she did, surely anyone helping her would have told her it's not a good idea to put her that close to home..

And this is my ONE and only issue with KC did it! Even a 12 year old would know not to throw someone you killed around the corner! KC was a CSI NCIS fan. She knew better! UNLESS she did it so she could say she was framed! BUT the whole between 9 and 1 fernandez gonzales zanny crap!:banghead:

KC was not that what is the word? ? ? intelligent to dream up a scheme like that was she? That is where I think she had help! Kc is no mensa member! HOW DID SHE finagle such a twisted mysyery all on her own?

Somebody give her an IQ test before she goes to court!!!!

 

[jon_burrows]

Yeah I don't think she did, surely anyone helping her would have told her it's not a good idea to put her that close to home..

I don't think she did either but I've seen the theory that she had help before. I believe Cindy said the same thing during one of the interviews but that was before the body was found (Annie too). What I would really like to know is why the theory exists that she had help disposing of the body. She was more than capable of lifting Caylee. The body not being discovered is just pure luck for Casey along with a 31 day head start (which left poor Caylee completely skeletonized by then), a hurricane, and family members willing to protect her. There is nothing genius about the way Caylee died or where she was dumped.

IMO

 

[ZsaZsa]

I think she died in the car.
I do not think she needed help in disposing of the body. How hard is it to bag up 'garbage' and throw it in a swampy dumping ground? She probably weighed around 30lbs. I have several bags of mulch in my trunk this am that weigh more than that....

 

[Gnatcatcher]

I think she died in the car.
I do not think she needed help in disposing of the body. How hard is it to bag up 'garbage' and throw it in a swampy dumping ground? She probably weighed around 30lbs. I have several bags of mulch in my trunk this am that weigh more than that....

Yep. I agree with this.

 

[Anais]

I have pondered this since the very first day Caylee's remains were found. I always knew in my heart I suppose that Caylee was already gone without that confirmation, but I did hold on to hope. I believe that it occurred somewhere between the 15 & 16th of June. I'd have to go back over Tony's depo again but in my mind I made a connection.

This was the point in time when their relationship had become intimate and it was increasing. Tony did want Casey to stay the night with him. I think that Casey was completely obsessed with Tony.Casey needed a sitter because she wanted to stay the night with TL. Although it is not what she told CA.I wish I could find that darn depo...I am off to search so I can properly put my thoughts into order in this post!

In any case til I do I believe that poor little Caylee died in the trunk of her mother's car. :furious::furious::furious:

 

[Tinsel]

I think she was killed in the garage and transferred into the trunk.

 

[logicalgirl]

And this is my ONE and only issue with KC did it! Even a 12 year old would know not to throw someone you killed around the corner! KC was a CSI NCIS fan. She knew better! UNLESS she did it so she could say she was framed! BUT the whole between 9 and 1 fernandez gonzales zanny crap!:banghead:

KC was not that what is the word? ? ? intelligent to dream up a scheme like that was she? That is where I think she had help! Kc is no mensa member! HOW DID SHE finagle such a twisted mysyery all on her own?

Somebody give her an IQ test before she goes to court!!!!

I really gave your comment some serious thought because it's interesting! I have a theory about this. There is a ton of information out there about past crimes, on TV, in the media, in books and online. And so many crimes if you strip the details away are pretty much the same.

Have you ever sat with a good friend and listened them talk about a problem they have? It might be a work problem, or even a friend who's made the mistake of getting involved with a married man? Because you can be objective and see the problem from a distance, you pretty well know how the issue will end - classic cases. But our friends think their problems are unique, never happened to anyone before, and won't end in a foregone conclusion.

I don't think Casey sees herself as a criminal like we see on the CSI's. I think she sees herself as unique, and because she was in the "middle" of her crime, wasn't objective, couldn't get out of her own head to actually view her crime from a distance. So she reverted to what most mothers do - dispose of the child they've killed close to home. While I think this crime was premeditated, that is I think she thought it and then did it, I don't believe she gave serious thought to a plan or plot. Which is why we are thinking how could ICA be so dumb as to think these actions would be believable and she would get away with it. Yes, death is different, and ICA thinks she is also. IMO.

 

[pamandabear]

Wow, this is a difficult choice. I think Caylee died in her own home but which room? I'm going to go with Caylee's bedroom. Not that I think Casey would have any guilt if she did it in her own bedroom. I'm thinking whatever was the most convenient place in Casey's mind is where she would have killed Caylee. Since I think she did it at home when nobody was around I would say that it was in Caylee's bedroom.

But it's the what did she do immediately afterwards that I want to know too.

I think it was done at home because that's where all the supplies she needed to kill Caylee and dispose her body. She had to get the duct tape, (and chloroform if that's what she used too) plastic garbage bags, the laundry bag, the baby blanket.

I agree, I feel Caylee was killed in her bedroom as well, due to all of what you had mentioned above, she had all she needed in the home, much to convenient, including the heart shaped sticker :furious:

 

[tlcya]

I think Caylee died in the trunk of the car. Here's how I have always envisioned this playing out.

The big fight with the A's happen, Casey storms off with Caylee. She has no job, no place to live, no prospects. She is very driven by the attention from males that her party lifestyle garners her. She starts crashing at various friends houses. Caylee is a huge liability. How do you party and clubhop while draggin your toddler along with you? Can't dump her on mom and dad (like she usually does). So we use a lie we've used inthe past. The old Invisazannynanny line. "where's Caylee? Oh she's with the nanny." She begins playing with the clorophorm recipe as a means to knock caylee out and make her more manageable while mom is off partying. I think she feared leaving Caylee in a home because what if she woke up, and raised an alarm that she was unsupervised.

That is why I have always believed that child died in the trunk of that car. She put her in the trunk so that she would be "near" Casey, where she could not be seen by others, and as an added precaution she placed duct tape over that baby's mouth so that in the event she awakened and cried out she would not be heard.

I don't think she specifically planned on her child's death. I can so vividly imagine her coming out of a club, drunk, happy, full of sexy self, high on her attention fix, feeling in control, like she got away with something, opening the trunk to remove Caylee, discovering her dead. The panic, the selfish "oh crap, this is gonna mess up MY life" moment. I can see it as if I was there.

She then goes home to the A's house to try to figure out what next, how to dispose of the body? This is where the heart shaped sticker comes into play. That damn sticker that haunts me. She takes the sticker from Caylee's room and places on the duct tape over her dead child's mouth. A final "loving" kiss from mommy. She wraps the body in the garbage bags. She drives around with the body for days, trying to figure out what to do, where to get rid of it. When the car starts to smell of decomp, her time is up. she must DO something. That is why the body ended up where it did. I think she dumped Caylee there because she was comfortable with the area, knew that location is full of brush, snakes and floods regularly. She pulls over one day and dumps little Caylee's remains like so much garbage.

MOO

 

[Gnatcatcher]

I'd have to go back over Tony's depo again but in my mind I made a connection.

.I wish I could find that darn depo...I am off to search so I can properly put my thoughts into order in this post!

snipped by me,

is this what you're looking for?
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5686811/Casey-Anthony-Tony-Lazzaro-transcript-Sept-8-2008

 

[LinasK]

I think Caylee died in the trunk of the car. Here's how I have always envisioned this playing out.

The big fight with the A's happen, Casey storms off with Caylee. She has no job, no place to live, no prospects. She is very driven by the attention from males that her party lifestyle garners her. She starts crashing at various friends houses. Caylee is a huge liability. How do you party and clubhop while draggin your toddler along with you? Can't dump her on mom and dad (like she usually does). So we use a lie we've used inthe past. The old Invisazannynanny line. "where's Caylee? Oh she's with the nanny." She begins playing with the clorophorm recipe as a means to knock caylee out and make her more manageable while mom is off partying. I think she feared leaving Caylee in a home because what if she woke up, and raised an alarm that she was unsupervised.

That is why I have always believed that child died in the trunk of that car. She put her in the trunk so that she would be "near" Casey, where she could not be seen by others, and as an added precaution she placed duct tape over that baby's mouth so that in the event she awakened and cried out she would not be heard.

I don't think she specifically planned on her child's death. I can so vividly imagine her coming out of a club, drunk, happy, full of sexy self, high on her attention fix, feeling in control, like she got away with something, opening the trunk to remove Caylee, discovering her dead. The panic, the selfish "oh crap, this is gonna mess up MY life" moment. I can see it as if I was there.

She then goes home to the A's house to try to figure out what next, how to dispose of the body? This is where the heart shaped sticker comes into play. That damn sticker that haunts me. She takes the sticker from Caylee's room and places on the duct tape over her dead child's mouth. A final "loving" kiss from mommy. She wraps the body in the garbage bags. She drives around with the body for days, trying to figure out what to do, where to get rid of it. When the car starts to smell of decomp, her time is up. she must DO something. That is why the body ended up where it did. I think she dumped Caylee there because she was comfortable with the area, knew that location is full of brush, snakes and floods regularly. She pulls over one day and dumps little Caylee's remains like so much garbage.

MOO

I think you're right about alot of this, specifically the first and last paragraphs, but I'm not sure about the middle part taking place as you suggest...
I don't believe Cindy lovingly tucked them in after a big fight, nor do I believe she heard them breathing through the door the next morning, nor do I believe George saw them leave the next day.

 

[Anais]

TLCOX awesome post and theory! I have often thought the same but find myself waivering back and forth. In as much as I can picture exactly what you explain above in my mind like a horror movie, I can also picture Casey killing Caylee in an absolute rage at CA.

I also often wonder what may have happened if other family members hadn't questioned CA & GA at Uncle Rick's wedding regarding Casey possibly being pregnant. I believe that CA told her brother Rick that Casey would have had to have sex to be pregnant! Would little Caylee have been one of those hidden pregnancies where the mother kills the baby at birth and disposes thinking no one will ever know? In my heart of hearts I honestly believe this may have been her ultimate plan. Sorry Mods, I did a search for Casey pregnancy etc.and was not sure where to post this!