Where would you put a dead body?

[nursebeeme]

premeditation of a crime can happen in the split second before the crime occurs....which is what I think happened here. Her murderous laundry list was most likely in her head for a while.....too bad we cannot print it out! I do not think she will ever talk. But I also believe she will be found, eventually, guilty. I do not think she is smart or cunning. I think she is a pathological, narcisscistic, sociopathic liar of the highest order. She made a lot of mistakes and is now lying to people that will not take them at face value like her family does. imhoo of course....

ETA: miracles: good thoughts about JCPenney and the rolling luggage...

 

[MiraclesHappen]

premeditation of a crime can happen in the split second before the crime occurs....which is what I think happened here. Her murderous laundry list was most likely in her head for a while.....too bad we cannot print it out! I do not think she will ever talk. But I also believe she will be found, eventually, guilty. I do not think she is smart or cunning. I think she is a pathological, narcisscistic, sociopathic liar of the highest order. She made a lot of mistakes and is now lying to people that will not take them at face value like her family does. imhoo of course....

ETA: miracles: good thoughts about JCPenney and the rolling luggage...

I soooo agree that she is not a diabolical planner.

I do not believe she is smart or cunning either, Nurse.

These creeps convince themselves they are smart and cunning because they are able to get away with lying to people who have no reason to distrust or question what is happening out of sight.
Because people are generally willing to give others the benefit of the doubt, this type of liar's red flags are often ignored. Innocent people will mentally fill in the "gaps" on behalf of the liar. It is sometimes a hard learned lesson, that making excuses for others is not good policy.
I mean we put loads of trust out there every day. You don't march into a church office and demand to see the minister's credentials...we tend to take representations at face value.
So woohoo, Casey got believed by people who thought she was an "innocent" friend .
It doesn't make Casey smart. It makes the other people human.
jmho
apologies if this is a double post...I think I "poofed" :beamup:

 

[Can't Sleep]

Muzikman - It would be great to see more of these images! Can you PLEASE start a thread on this!!! Do you think you can post some of them there so that we can discuss them???

I don't want to take this thread off topic...but there are many images from her photobucket which are interesting! Here's another one I would like to know more about:

This one looks like a scan of a page from a catalog - the crease in the lower left corner and the letter "F" and the word "exclusive" are all things found in catalogs. I find it very creepy that she uploaded this to her PB in January. Since she made a "thumbnail" of the photo perhaps it was used in a "condolence" to a friend (?) Maybe someone lost a pet?

This is off topic, but since we don't have a thread going for these, I just wonder if her "sent messages" on her MySpace or Facebook accounts is accessible.(?)

OT - I know.

 

[Muzikman]

This one looks like a scan of a page from a catalog - the crease in the lower left corner and the letter "F" and the word "exclusive" are all things found in catalogs. I find it very creepy that she uploaded this to her PB in January. Since she made a "thumbnail" of the photo perhaps it was used in a "condolence" to a friend (?) Maybe someone lost a pet?

This is off topic, but since we don't have a thread going for these, I just wonder if her "sent messages" on her MySpace or Facebook accounts is accessible.(?)

OT - I know.

Actually, I am going to start a thread, I'm uploading the Zip file of her whole PB account, when it's done I will start the thread and post the link so you all can discuss.

I now think that the thumbnails are automatically generated by PB, so they can show 40 pix per page or whatever. The file time/date for both are the same.

 

[magic-cat]

I can no longer agree, having been exposed to the coldhearted Casey for all of these months, that there was any accident...I also cannot agree that this was not premeditated. This girl is as dumb as mud...sociopath, perhaps, but not one of higher intelligence of a certainty. Her pathetic lies had worked on her close friends, boyfriends and her family for YEARS, so there was no reason in her little pea brain for her to believe that any stranger would be any different...and remember-SHE NEVER EXPECTED HER MOM TO CALL THE POLICE...as they never had before under ANY circumstances...she just thought they would buy her lies hook line and sinker, and had not actually PLANNED for the eventuality that LE would become involved...

 

[JoAnn_W]

If I wanted my children dead when they were young, I would have taken them swimming and then pretend to be devastated when they drown.

Another scenario would be to take the pretty little girl to the park and wait for a predator to get her. Carjackers at gas stations are also a popular way to be devastated that your child was taken. One more- let her accidentally ingest poison and be devastated when I found her in the morning.

All of the above reasons are also why I don't believe Casey premeditated her murder. I think she got stoned and Caylee was hurt by her either running her over while she was high or something like that. It could have been an accident, but because of Casey's altered state- she had to hide. JMO.

JoAnn_W

 

[bexpruner]

If I was sick enough, i'd feed it to pigs or alligators.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

***snipped***

The Bad Seed, keeps popping into my mind. .........

I know it was a movie, but as lazy as KC is, I can see her going to whatever lengths possible, whatever it takes, to hide Caylee and not get caught, even if she broke a few nails......

When did Amy H say Casey got her nails done?

Oh, and I cannot believe I haven't seen that movie. It's on my list now!!!:blowkiss:

 

[suzet]

premeditation of a crime can happen in the split second before the crime occurs....which is what I think happened here. Her murderous laundry list was most likely in her head for a while.....too bad we cannot print it out! I do not think she will ever talk. But I also believe she will be found, eventually, guilty. I do not think she is smart or cunning. I think she is a pathological, narcisscistic, sociopathic liar of the highest order. She made a lot of mistakes and is now lying to people that will not take them at face value like her family does. imhoo of course....

ETA: miracles: good thoughts about JCPenney and the rolling luggage...

Again, I agree with your line of thinking. I believe KC toyed with the idea of living life without Caylee for quite some time. Once Cindy "gave her reason to" (in KC's sick mind), I believe KC murdered Caylee in a fit of anger. A spiteful b**ch, remember. Her lies are laughable to all but the gullible folks she usually preys upon.

I was looking at small rollable luggage at JC Penney's for an upcoming trip. One could be had for 19.99. Oh yes, would love to know what KC bought at Penneys.

 

[tasylshari]

I think she really thought by leaving that car with her purse in it where she did, that it would be stolen. Think about a check cashing place- people go there because they do not have any money and if they are like the ones in this area, it is a very "rough" looking crowd.

I don't believe she considered them having it towed anywhere, but that someone would heist the car and then she would have someone to blame it all on. In her mind that was the perfect plan.

turbo: you sound like an incredibly insightful person! I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your many, many theories and messages. I agree that she wanted someone to steal the car so that she could blame the smell of decomp and everything on whoever stold it. Makes perfect sense.

 

[tasylshari]

I can no longer agree, having been exposed to the coldhearted Casey for all of these months, that there was any accident...I also cannot agree that this was not premeditated. This girl is as dumb as mud...sociopath, perhaps, but not one of higher intelligence of a certainty. Her pathetic lies had worked on her close friends, boyfriends and her family for YEARS, so there was no reason in her little pea brain for her to believe that any stranger would be any different...and remember-SHE NEVER EXPECTED HER MOM TO CALL THE POLICE...as they never had before under ANY circumstances...she just thought they would buy her lies hook line and sinker, and had not actually PLANNED for the eventuality that LE would become involved...

magic cat I agree. It was stated that she had previously done searches for Missing Children and chloroform, right? Makes sense that it was premeditated to me.

 

[Pink Panther]

This one looks like a scan of a page from a catalog - the crease in the lower left corner and the letter "F" and the word "exclusive" are all things found in catalogs. I find it very creepy that she uploaded this to her PB in January. Since she made a "thumbnail" of the photo perhaps it was used in a "condolence" to a friend (?) Maybe someone lost a pet?

This is off topic, but since we don't have a thread going for these, I just wonder if her "sent messages" on her MySpace or Facebook accounts is accessible.(?)

OT - I know.

There are others like this:

Perhaps muzikman can help us make some sense of these once we set up a separate thread to discuss!

 

[kidz110]

I'd never be disposing of a dead body, but I've watched way too much crime tv and read too many crime forums to use water or dumpsters. I'd be very afraid to throw even a weighted body in water due to gases causing it to rise a few months later.

You can overcome the gasses ........just gut it first - like a deer.

This is very interesting because in one of the Donation threads someone (sorry, don't remember who) said they heard from a reliable source that LE thinks the knife was used to puncture the body and remove the gases. To me that would also explain the sudden bad smell in the car. I can picture Casey putting her in one of the many bodies of water. There are so many in that area it would be almost impossible to search each one.

What about vultures flying around calling attn. to the body?

When my sister's body was finally located in a very wooded area, someone commented that they should have realized that's where she was because they saw vultures flying around. Most people don't think dead human body when they see vultures. They're very common around areas with lots of wildlife. I think most people assume dead animal.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Quote: If that is true, that is was all an accident and big mistake....where is her remorse, her tears, her grief , for her little girl? There isn't a shred of any of those things, the absolute opposite, in fact. That's what tells me it was a PLANNED and desired act she committed.

You would have to get inside a narcissist's head (pretty scary place) but believe it or not, this scenario could happen even to a selfish, deceptive person whose only thought upon discovering this horrific scene (especially if Caylee was beyond hope of revival) would then be to save herself. It does not mean that she deliberately or intentionally planned it, only that her neglect and selfish priorities resulted in her child's death--and that she lacked the courage and moral fiber to ADMIT and FACE the consequences. As I understand the roots of narcissism it's caused by a mixture of the self-centered, controlling parent's harsh and critical intolerance of mistakes, plus failure to hold accountable or give consequences--then it's not hard to see here the hold CA has over her daughter (she states as much to LE, and LA). Or how it might have been harder for her to admit the truth to CA than to face a life or death sentence...

Quote: All of the above reasons are also why I don't believe Casey premeditated her murder. I think she got stoned and Caylee was hurt by her either running her over while she was high or something like that. It could have been an accident, but because of Casey's altered state- she had to hide. JMO -JoAnn_W

Thank you. Someone else who understands this. Why the need to "split" good and evil? Maybe we're just more comfortable thinking in these black and white terms because we want to see evil coming. We want to put a face on it, and believe in "us," and "them." Now maybe it is because I have raised four children, and have a 20 year-old daughter and two year-old granddaughter of my own. Maybe it's because I can see traits of narcissism in my own daughter, a young mother, who wasn't always willing to make the sacrifices or the right choices on behalf of her child. Maybe I see the way she's trying to keep up with friends who are childless and struggling as a young woman to balance the needs of her young child with her own. Maybe it's just because I have lived long enough to realize there are more people who are a mixture of good and bad, than there are people who are TOTALLY one, or the other. Most of us fall somewhere in between. But if you're admittedly neither prepared to make the sacrifices of parenthood, nor given permission to relinquish that task; given neither an honest realistic sense of your faults, nor any consequences whenever you have acted irresponsibly; given neither adequate training for adulthood, nor any permission to fail; if you've been reminded constantly you are an unfit mother--then gone and proven your mother right, maybe it would make an already immature self-centered borderline narcissistic person feel so fearful and loathesome they would at this point think only of self-preservation. JMHO

 

[EastSideOfSaddness]

This is very interesting because in one of the Donation threads someone (sorry, don't remember who) said they heard from a reliable source that LE thinks the knife was used to puncture the body and remove the gases. To me that would also explain the sudden bad smell in the car. I can picture Casey putting her in one of the many bodies of water. There are so many in that area it would be almost impossible to search each one.


When my sister's body was finally located in a very wooded area, someone commented that they should have realized that's where she was because they saw vultures flying around. Most people don't think dead human body when they see vultures. They're very common around areas with lots of wildlife. I think most people assume dead animal.

Gosh, Kidz. I'm so very sorry about your sister :cry:

 

[Prayin_4_Grace]

I like your logic, Dallas W!

I believe someone here mentioned the bridge over Lake Jessup being one that, as you drive over it, you can see the alligators popping their heads out of the water. Can't remember exactly how it was worded, but when I envision this scene occurring at night, it terrifies me.

So now, I wonder how much effort KC would have exerted into body disposal. I know she's lazy and would like the least messy option available, but...

...a scene from the movie, The Bad Seed, keeps popping into my mind. At the end of the movie, the little girl, Rhoda, dons her perfect little rain gear and in the middle of the night during a terrible thunderstorm walks to the edge of a slippery pier to retrieve something that was left there (don't want to ruin the story for anyone who hasn't seen this incredible gem of a movie).

Now, anyone would have been terrified to venture out in the darkness during a storm and walk out to the edge of a slippery pier, especially a child. I was struck by the determination of this little sociopath who would stop at nothing and brave whatever danger she encountered, to accomplish her goal.

I know it was a movie, but as lazy as KC is, I can see her going to whatever lengths possible, whatever it takes, to hide Caylee and not get caught, even if she broke a few nails. I can see her hiking through the woods in the middle of the night. I can definitely see her standing on a bridge overlooking an alligator infested lake in the darkness of the night. Imo, as far as fearless danger, neither of these scenarios can compete with the act of killing your own child.

I have seen no fear in this woman.

This is my theory on what KC did with little Caylee and (if I were a sociopath)its what I would do also.

I remember a local post about the bridge over Lake Jessup and how bad the water was invested with gators. She also said that everytime her and her children crossed that bridge they would see how many alligators they could count popping their heads up out of the water. IIRC she said they had counted around 30 or more before.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Quote: All of the above reasons are also why I don't believe Casey premeditated her murder. I think she got stoned and Caylee was hurt by her either running her over while she was high or something like that. It could have been an accident, but because of Casey's altered state- she had to hide. JMO -JoAnn_W

Btw JoAnn, in addition to pool scenario which I generally return to as the most plausible I also considered the possibility of her backing up over Caylee. Thought of the 18th the day her car was reported by a neighbor to be "backed" into garage, wondering whether this might have occurred if she assumed Caylee was safely inside but she had wandered back inside the garage (except no one saw Caylee after GA, after the 16th). It could've happened on the 16th at the house, but evidently no trace of this was found by CSI. IMO it's still a possibility, but Caylee LOVED the pool; was becoming smarter about finding ways around childproofing (according to CA), as well as having been drawn there like a magnet; and it would have been silent, leaving no trace. JMO

 

[kiki the parrot]

Quote: I have seen no fear in this woman.

Wow are we looking at the same person... because when I look at her, that's all I see. I think she IS petrified. Of her mom's reaction, more than anything. Again, this is just unprofessional, (although hard-earned) wisdom of the mother of four, and grandmother of one.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Originally Posted by MiraclesHappen
I still wonder what if anything, was purchased at JC Penneys. I would like to know that it isn't a piece of rolling luggage.
What is with the mysterious attitude about that particular receipt?

Originally Posted by nursebeeme
ETA: miracles: good thoughts about JCPenney and the rolling luggage...

I was looking at small rollable luggage at JC Penney's for an upcoming trip. One could be had for 19.99. Oh yes, would love to know what KC bought at Penneys.

When did she go to JC Penney? Maybe LE is holding back the receipt from the public until trial, or is Cindy keeping it hidden? Were the JCP statements what Yuri asked her about because Cindy only gave him receipts? It was on her timeline video.

After I read all these comments about the rolling luggage, I turned around to view the one I have standing behind me in my home office. I use it to carry my large files to meetings. It's better than lugging a heavy attache case. It's not a large suitcase, but it's definitely large enough for a 3-year-old child.

If there really was decomposition in the car, could the body fluids have dripped through the luggage? Or did Casey throw her into the suitcase later, after the mess appeared?

Has anyone read the children's books starring Zanny the Nanny and the twins? I just found out they are MYSTERY books. Could something in those books be a clue to where she put Caylee? I'm sure those mysteries didn't deal with gross dead bodies (or do they?) but I'm thinking there could be something in there. Also, these books have been around since 1991 or so, and since we're told Casey was a voracious reader, maybe she read them as a young girl and graduated to more grizzly stuff as she grew older.

Whatever, I'm thinking the suitcase idea is something to consider. One rolls a suitcase, no one thinks it's odd. I'm assuming she didn't send the suitcase off on a plane or train or bus, did she? You know, like one does with packages. Could she have mailed her somewhere? No. no. I'm forgetting the odor. Scratch that.

I'll have to think about this a bit more. Maybe even read some Zanny stories. :waitasec:

 

[Pink Panther]

When did she go to JC Penney? Maybe LE is holding back the receipt from the public until trial, or is Cindy keeping it hidden? Were the JCP statements what Yuri asked her about because Cindy only gave him receipts? It was on her timeline video.

After I read all these comments about the rolling luggage, I turned around to view the one I have standing behind me in my home office. I use it to carry my large files to meetings. It's better than lugging a heavy attache case. It's not a large suitcase, but it's definitely large enough for a 3-year-old child.

If there really was decomposition in the car, could the body fluids have dripped through the luggage? Or did Casey throw her into the suitcase later, after the mess appeared?

Has anyone read the children's books starring Zanny the Nanny and the twins? I just found out they are MYSTERY books. Could something in those books be a clue to where she put Caylee? I'm sure those mysteries didn't deal with gross dead bodies (or do they?) but I'm thinking there could be something in there. Also, these books have been around since 1991 or so, and since we're told Casey was a voracious reader, maybe she read them as a young girl and graduated to more grizzly stuff as she grew older.

Whatever, I'm thinking the suitcase idea is something to consider. One rolls a suitcase, no one thinks it's odd. I'm assuming she didn't send the suitcase off on a plane or train or bus, did she? You know, like one does with packages. Could she have mailed her somewhere? No. no. I'm forgetting the odor. Scratch that.

I'll have to think about this a bit more. Maybe even read some Zanny stories. :waitasec:

In her text messages back and forth with Amy, when they're discussing the upcoming trip to PR, at one point she says something like - well at least I don't have to worry about luggage...we have lots of luggage.