Who do you believe? Dr. G or Dr. S?

[GeekyGirl]

I think they're reconcilable because the intent is different in such situations.

If Caylee was willfully murdered by Casey it can be inferred that she wanted her child dead. If Caylee drowned accidentally she is not a murderer and thus we can't take it for granted that she preferred a dead Caylee to a live one.

Anyway, if it's a surprise situation I believe that instincts will usually kick in and calling 911 happens pretty automatically, as per Dr. G. I think it tends to happen whatever your feelings towards your child are because the resentment and anger a parent might feel will momentarily be displaced by fear and upset. Sometimes you hear sad stories about parents who were so angry and frustrated with their children before they died and now they'd give anything to get the child back.

Granted, a not-so-loving mother might later think, oh no I should have let her drown, now she's got brain damage and is even more of a burden than she used to be. But most are glad that their child lives.

If we assume that Casey had coincidentally been considering murder before Caylee drowned accidentally it doesn't imo make any sense that she'd cover the accident up. On the contrary, it would be the easy way out for her, she'd snap it up. The end result was the same, the child was dead, and with far less trouble far fewer risks to herself. She should have been eager to report it. Maybe wait for a while before phoning in to make sure they can't revive her?

That's a good argument, thanks for taking the time to answer. I'm still not entirely convinced that she would, and oddly it's because of her wild defense strategy. Although it's baffling to me, she seems to be willing to risk the death penalty in order to avoid taking any responsibility for her actions. That being said, I think you have a good point with the automatic response being to call. It's definitely something we're trained to do these days. MOO

 

[USARDOG]

I wasn't convinced by a single thing DrS testified to. He just was not credible IMO.

 

[Oldsoul2]

So you think that KC went back in the woods later and put the tape on the skull? I can't imagine she would do that but it makes more sense to me now that the duct tape had to be put on later. I just don't know how long it would take for the body to be fully decomposed and skeletonized for the duct tape to stay attached to the skull?

Not that she went back to the woods, by the time she finally arrived at the woods, Caylee must have been dead and decomposing for days. That's when I think she put the tape around her to appear like a kidnapping and murder. I must correct myself though, they found the tape still stuck to the hair so it wasn't stuck to the skull. So any part of the tape that was on the skin would have been swept away someway. I'm going to review what they said about the stages of decomp, I know it has alot to do with the heat too.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Not that she went back to the woods, by the time she finally arrived at the woods, Caylee must have been dead and decomposing for days. That's when I think she put the tape around her to appear like a kidnapping and murder. I must correct myself though, they found the tape still stuck to the hair so it wasn't stuck to the skull. So any part of the tape that was on the skin would have been swept away someway. I'm going to review what they said about the stages of decomp, I know it has alot to do with the heat too.

So you think she opened the TWO garbage bags up to apply duct tape?:waitasec: This is the same Casey that found it too difficult to dig a hole?

 

[Miss Anarchy]

~~~Bolded by me

I hope I can say this without getting myself into trouble. Mods, please note that I am truly not trying to be snarky in any way.

Are you saying that Dr. Spitz's theory of how that duct tape came to be placed on little Caylee's skull was a credible one?

In my opinion, that was the most convoluted, contrived, unbelievable, and condescending testimony I have ever heard come from an expert's mouth. There is absolutely NO evidence to suggest that anyone ever picked up that skull, realigned the now detached mandible, and then placed duct tape on it to hold the mandible in place, just for staging purposes. What possible reason would a person have for doing such a thing?

Even though I find totally ludicrous the entire concept of duct taping a person's face and airways to prevent spillage of decompositional fluids, it certainly would make much more sense than what Dr. Spitz was trying to peddle on the witness stand today.

I won't even go into what I think about him accusing medical examiner staff of "staging" little Caylee's skull for photography purposes. I am going to sit on my hands for that.

Completely and totally agree with this. Very well said.

 

[USARDOG]

Not only was DrS not credible IMO, but after today's proceeding, I am going to have a problem with ANYTHING the defense puts forth. This is the worst bunch of manipulators I have ever seen in a courtroom. I'm not sure how or even if HHJP will be able to regain control of this trial, it seems JB knows no bounds in what he will try and pull.

 

[Marina2]

I suspect those scrapings were sent off to be tested. They came back as dirt and nothing was ever said about the test. Spitz said that he was told the sample "made it's way back to the state" and was tested. He couldn't remember who told him that but I don't doubt that it happened and I don't doubt it was Baez who told him that.

 

[Oldsoul2]

So you think she opened the TWO garbage bags up to apply duct tape?:waitasec: This is the same Casey that found it too difficult to dig a hole?

No, I'm saying that when she finally put her in the garbage bags she was already decomposing and dead she put the tape over her mouth before she closed the bag and drop her to her final destination

 

[TorisMom003]

No, I'm saying that when she finally put her in the garbage bags she was already decomposing and dead she put the tape over her mouth before she closed the bag and drop her to her final destination

Where was Caylee while she was decomposing then? The stain in the trunk of the car is not large enough to have been in there without being in the bags already.

 

[sappysoul]

I have a couple question regarding the credibility of these two doctors. First, has there ever been a case where the body of a child (or adult for that matter) has been found disposed in bags, with duct tape or other similar items (ropes, wires, etc) and the manner of death has been ruled anything other than homicide? If not, what facts about this case would be cause for such a ruling?

Secondly, how would the state's case benefit from staging hair on the skull? If they were going to tamper with evidence wouldn't they do something which would more likely benefit their case?

 

[Steft50]

Hi! New poster here, first post, nice to meet ya'll.

There is something about Dr Spitz that just gets under my skin and I don't know what it is exactly. His professional history is astonishing and very well accomplished but I don't see what he's done in THIS century to warrent the level of respect for his opinion that he seems to feel everyone should give him.

I found him to be out of touch with current methods and thoughts on procedures. I found him to be ego driven and not fact driven. He seemed to be more interested in what his picture showed than what test results showed or what he found himself.

He did not follow normal procedure when conducting his own autopsy by not wearing gloves and proper equipment. He did not either perform his own tests or send things out to be tested.

Did I hear right when I heard that he not only removed the skull cap to examine the interior, that he broke it?

There is just nothing credible here.

 

[Steft50]

I'm watching the replay of this testimony on HLN and want to add to my post above....how do you NOT remember if you talked to the childs family? The child that you autopsied, that you are in Florida to examine and who is your current job you forget if you talked to her family in the home???

 

[Sabrina2011]

Ok, Dr S on stand (they are replaying his testimony) He said he got the scrapings out of the skull and then

"i gave it to... ummm...I gave it...I gave it to. They told me it was already scraped and sent to...umm, sent to the police laboratory, the police already had it and tested it"

OK so huh????

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Last Updated: June 20. 2011 3:42PM

Spitz defends testimony in Casey Anthony trial

Josh Katzenstein/ The Detroit News

Former Wayne and Macomb County medical examiner Dr. Werner Spitz has returned to the Detroit area confident in his testimony in the Casey Anthony trial, saying efforts to discredit him were unsuccessful.

Spitz, 84, of Grosse Pointe Shores, said today he believes his stance is correct, despite a report by the Orlando Sentinel in which legal analysts suggested Spitz failed to convince the jury of his hypothesis...

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110620...estimony-in-Casey-Anthony-trial#ixzz1Pqhzz1Im

 

[Donjeta]

"The opinion that I had, and have, is that the cause of death is unknown as proposed by the medical examiner (from Orlando)," Spitz said Monday. "She determined (the manner of death) was homicide. That doesn't make sense, not under these circumstances."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110620...estimony-in-Casey-Anthony-trial#ixzz1PqixNScd

Whaaat????

The circumstances are, a baby found in a trash bag, in a trash dump, not reported missing, and it doesn't make any sense to him that it might be a homicide??

I think he may be remembering some other case.

As for the people who told him he did great, well, it is kind of difficult for many people to criticize someone face to face, particularly if it's a friend they respect.

 

[Broderick]

Last Updated: June 20. 2011 3:42PM

Spitz defends testimony in Casey Anthony trial

Josh Katzenstein/ The Detroit News

Former Wayne and Macomb County medical examiner Dr. Werner Spitz has returned to the Detroit area confident in his testimony in the Casey Anthony trial, saying efforts to discredit him were unsuccessful.

Spitz, 84, of Grosse Pointe Shores, said today he believes his stance is correct, despite a report by the Orlando Sentinel in which legal analysts suggested Spitz failed to convince the jury of his hypothesis...

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110620...estimony-in-Casey-Anthony-trial#ixzz1Pqhzz1Im

the color of the sky is quite different in my world.

 

[Steft50]

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110620...estimony-in-Casey-Anthony-trial#ixzz1PqixNScd

Whaaat????

The circumstances are, a baby found in a trash bag, in a trash dump, not reported missing, and it doesn't make any sense to him that it might be a homicide??

I think he may be remembering some other case.

As for the people who told him he did great, well, it is kind of difficult for many people to criticize someone face to face, particularly if it's a friend they respect.

I seem to remember from his testimony that he didn't remember or know the circumstances of Caylees disappearance, the circustances of how long she was gone, of where she was found, of the conditions in which she was found, of the conditions the area sustained during the time she was there. He just seemed completely unaware of the circumstances in this case. Or is that just me?

 

[Sabrina2011]

I seem to remember from his testimony that he didn't remember or know the circumstances of Caylees disappearance, the circustances of how long she was gone, of where she was found, of the conditions in which she was found, of the conditions the area sustained during the time she was there. He just seemed completely unaware of the circumstances in this case. Or is that just me?

Not only unaware, he mentions she was taken by a babysitter.. They forgot to update him on Casey Anthony Fables, V2.5
(he knew nothing about her, what she did before this happened he did not know the story at all)

 

[mydailyopinions]

http://detnews.com/article/20110620...estimony-in-Casey-Anthony-trial#ixzz1Pqhzz1Im

snip

""(Prosecutor Jeff Ashton) tried to discredit me, but I don't think he was successful," Spitz said. "People that did watch the jury told me the jury was very intent on my testimony."



This is absolutely not what was coming through twitter. I remember smirks and giggling. I find it amazing he would wait until he made it back to Detroit to spew this mess!

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

These two statements are laughable:

"(Prosecutor Jeff Ashton) tried to discredit me, but I don't think he was successful," Spitz said. "People that did watch the jury told me the jury was very intent on my testimony.
"It almost looked to me that (Ashton) did not want to extend the cross-examination because he thought all that would happen is that the jury would get a better understanding (of my claims)."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110620...estimony-in-Casey-Anthony-trial#ixzz1PqooOFeV!

It amazes me that Casey's, Jose's, Cheney's and Spitz's egos all fit in the courtroom at the same time!