Who do you think is guilty? I'm relatively new here and...
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Spellbound
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Someone has supposedly confessed to the murder again. But it is from DailyMail so don't bet your house on it yet.
Pedophile Gary Oliva confesses to killing JonBenét Ramsey by accident | Daily Mail Online
He "confessed" in a letter to a friend that has since been turned over to authorities, who are not commenting at this time.
... he had 335 photos of JonBenét including photos from the six-year-old's autopsy
Oliva was once jailed for trying to strangle his mother, ...
... was registered as a sex offender with an address near to the Ramsey home and showed up at a candlelight vigil after the pageant queen's gruesome death.
The handwriting does not match Oliva's in his letters to Vail. But it is possible the note was penned by an accomplice.
He is currently due for parole in October 2020.
Oliva's previous convictions include trying to strangle his mother, sexually assaulting a seven-year-old girl and possessing a stun gun [I do recall there talk about tiny marks possibly from a stun gun on Jon Benet.]
ETA
It was NOT there when I posted, but someone has started a new thread for Oliva discussion: Gary Oliva
Pedophile Gary Oliva confesses to killing JonBenét Ramsey by accident | Daily Mail Online
He "confessed" in a letter to a friend that has since been turned over to authorities, who are not commenting at this time.
... he had 335 photos of JonBenét including photos from the six-year-old's autopsy
Oliva was once jailed for trying to strangle his mother, ...
... was registered as a sex offender with an address near to the Ramsey home and showed up at a candlelight vigil after the pageant queen's gruesome death.
The handwriting does not match Oliva's in his letters to Vail. But it is possible the note was penned by an accomplice.
He is currently due for parole in October 2020.
Oliva's previous convictions include trying to strangle his mother, sexually assaulting a seven-year-old girl and possessing a stun gun [I do recall there talk about tiny marks possibly from a stun gun on Jon Benet.]
ETA
It was NOT there when I posted, but someone has started a new thread for Oliva discussion: Gary Oliva
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Lilibet
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NCTeacher
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My gut says...
1. Mom clearly fixed JonBenet pineapples. (Why lie about this, why distance yourself from pineapples?)
2. Someone in that household got angry at JonBenet while she was eating the pineapples and hit her in the head (with the flashlight?)
Discussion ensued. Should she go to the hospital? No, how can these perfect people explain someone just hit her upside the head with a flashlight?
Then it becomes clear the injury is very severe and needed prompt medical attention. Was JonBenet having seizures, was she losing her vision? I dunno, but a parent realized that her injury was too severe to be explained away. Perhaps it was evident JonBenet was either going to die from the head injury or be severely debilitated by the head injury.
A parent decides that they need a cover story. So, a ransom letter is written by the mom and a parent strangles her (give her a cause of death that distances itself from the actual injury that sparked these events) and leaves her in the basement/cellar area.
As for the sexual abuse, it probably happened at the Christmas party they attended by a fellow attendee.
JMO.
1. Mom clearly fixed JonBenet pineapples. (Why lie about this, why distance yourself from pineapples?)
2. Someone in that household got angry at JonBenet while she was eating the pineapples and hit her in the head (with the flashlight?)
Discussion ensued. Should she go to the hospital? No, how can these perfect people explain someone just hit her upside the head with a flashlight?
Then it becomes clear the injury is very severe and needed prompt medical attention. Was JonBenet having seizures, was she losing her vision? I dunno, but a parent realized that her injury was too severe to be explained away. Perhaps it was evident JonBenet was either going to die from the head injury or be severely debilitated by the head injury.
A parent decides that they need a cover story. So, a ransom letter is written by the mom and a parent strangles her (give her a cause of death that distances itself from the actual injury that sparked these events) and leaves her in the basement/cellar area.
As for the sexual abuse, it probably happened at the Christmas party they attended by a fellow attendee.
JMO.
SunVenus
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Guilty? We will likely never know. (Then again, I was sure that GSK/VR/ONS would never be caught, so I guess anything could happen.) I do believe it was one (or more) of the three in the house that night with JBR. No intruder.
My hunch is this: JBR's injuries & subsequent death were caused in that house, via the direct actions of either PR, JR, or BR (or some combo of the three). It could easily have been an accident and things snowballed as the R's had/have such an entitled, disgusting attitude of "we are rich Christians, nothing bad happens here". The one thing that absolutely rings true: a huge crime was committed in the coverup. Some one (as per the indictments) of the parents was aiding and abetting the other, or even acting in collusion. Perhaps a few things were being covered up, hence the specific nature of the recommended indictments, and the reluctance of the family to contact emergency services if it were just a simple accident. What were they hiding if that was the case?
Had this been any normal, non new-money, work-a-day folks, this death would (sadly) have been barely a blip on the public radar.
My hunch is this: JBR's injuries & subsequent death were caused in that house, via the direct actions of either PR, JR, or BR (or some combo of the three). It could easily have been an accident and things snowballed as the R's had/have such an entitled, disgusting attitude of "we are rich Christians, nothing bad happens here". The one thing that absolutely rings true: a huge crime was committed in the coverup. Some one (as per the indictments) of the parents was aiding and abetting the other, or even acting in collusion. Perhaps a few things were being covered up, hence the specific nature of the recommended indictments, and the reluctance of the family to contact emergency services if it were just a simple accident. What were they hiding if that was the case?
Had this been any normal, non new-money, work-a-day folks, this death would (sadly) have been barely a blip on the public radar.
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catmom4
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I too believe that there was something tragic that happened in the house that night. I'm open to believe that it was an accident that was covered up by the family. I also agree that if it truly was an accident then why didn't they come forward and explain that? Were they indeed hiding something? From the bit that I know the entire investigation was flawed. This case is something that will stay with me.
Dragognosis
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What in the evidence indicates an accident?
dogperson
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I don't believe any of JBRs injuries were accidental. My belief has always been that one person sexually abused her, caused the blow to the head, and performed the strangulation. A blow to the head might have been able to be passed off as an accident, but not strangulation or sexual abuse, so the family had to concoct the kidnapping story. I think the ransom note was intended to lead the police away from the house, allowing the family to dispose of the body without the police ever knowing it was in the basement.
Why would anyone in the family want to cover up what really happened? Because someone in the family caused the death of JBR.
I have never bought into the theory that one or both parents found JBR dying and "finished her off" by strangling her. I think the strangulation was part of the whole act, or the fantasy, of the person who was abusing her. I think the only cover up was some wiping away of evidence, possible redressing, and the writing of the ransom note.
Why would anyone in the family want to cover up what really happened? Because someone in the family caused the death of JBR.
I have never bought into the theory that one or both parents found JBR dying and "finished her off" by strangling her. I think the strangulation was part of the whole act, or the fantasy, of the person who was abusing her. I think the only cover up was some wiping away of evidence, possible redressing, and the writing of the ransom note.
If JonBenet's injuries were accidental even through anger then surely the parents could have dialled 911 for medical assistance.
Not doing so can only mean one of two things: they never knew till it was too late or they colluded to minimize whatever went before?
IMO the case turns on what the Coroner has described as Sexual Contact and Digital Penetration which you can interpret as a Sexual Assault or a Staged Sexual Assault, i.e. the latter to mask the former?
Occam says the case is BDI and the parents arrived late at an already patently childish crime scene staging, amended it, probably more than once, ending up via iteration with a Kidnapping Scenario?
Realists say the case is JDI with Patsy helping to stage for her husband, here the speculated motive is sexual and that JonBenet's silence was required?
Supporters of Steve Thomas will say the case is PDI, bedwetting et al, and that the sexual assault is staging along with the garrote, etc, it might be the case stranger outcomes have happened.
The case is RDI and sadly the wealthy parents were involved demonstrating tragedy respects neither class or money.
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Not doing so can only mean one of two things: they never knew till it was too late or they colluded to minimize whatever went before?
IMO the case turns on what the Coroner has described as Sexual Contact and Digital Penetration which you can interpret as a Sexual Assault or a Staged Sexual Assault, i.e. the latter to mask the former?
Occam says the case is BDI and the parents arrived late at an already patently childish crime scene staging, amended it, probably more than once, ending up via iteration with a Kidnapping Scenario?
Realists say the case is JDI with Patsy helping to stage for her husband, here the speculated motive is sexual and that JonBenet's silence was required?
Supporters of Steve Thomas will say the case is PDI, bedwetting et al, and that the sexual assault is staging along with the garrote, etc, it might be the case stranger outcomes have happened.
The case is RDI and sadly the wealthy parents were involved demonstrating tragedy respects neither class or money.
.
borndem
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I think it started with an accident and ends up in murder.
My scenario -- JBR wet and possibly soiled the bed, her pj's, and herself; her mother checks on her and realizes that JBR will need a bath and a change of clothes. The family was to leave early the next morning. There's still a lot that Mom needs to to for the trip. Mom jerks her out of bed and runs a bath. JBR says or does something while in the tub, Mom, in her exasperation and in a fit of temper, slaps her hard. Her head hits the tile or the tub or the spigot or handle, she falls into the water and her life is in danger. They cannot revive her, she stops breathing, etc., etc. This is something her parents don't know how to handle.
Both parents cook-up their story, and stick to it.
My scenario -- JBR wet and possibly soiled the bed, her pj's, and herself; her mother checks on her and realizes that JBR will need a bath and a change of clothes. The family was to leave early the next morning. There's still a lot that Mom needs to to for the trip. Mom jerks her out of bed and runs a bath. JBR says or does something while in the tub, Mom, in her exasperation and in a fit of temper, slaps her hard. Her head hits the tile or the tub or the spigot or handle, she falls into the water and her life is in danger. They cannot revive her, she stops breathing, etc., etc. This is something her parents don't know how to handle.
Both parents cook-up their story, and stick to it.
Dragognosis
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What in the evidence indicates an accident?
borndem
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Nothing -- I was just postulating my own theory. Something happened to her to cause her death. I think it was done by either her mother or father or brother. So, again, it's just one theory of mine.
AFAIK, no one knows what really happened, and we never will.
I think some accident occurred initially, and the parents tried to cover it up.
Since there were so many people coming and going to/from their house -- family, friends, LE -- who knows what evidence was disturbed, removed, changed or added.
JMO.
Dragognosis
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"I think some accident occurred initially, "
Why do you think that?
Why do you think that?
NanaNZA
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Dragognosis, this seems to be the reigning theory because poeople subconsciously cannot fathom a family member to do such terrible things. There is no proof or evidence to this, but that doesn’t take it off the table (for many).
It’s all guesswork. The blow to the head may have been an unintential mishap. Since medical assistance was not summoned, we must wonder why.
It is a fact, though, that the strangulation was no accident. Imo
Dragognosis
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There is zero reason to assume an accident. It is a fundamental mistake for a sleuther to do so.
Dragognosis
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"People subconsciously cannot fathom a family member to do such terrible things. "
Add rich, white Boulderite.
Still a mistake to go with accident over premeditation.
Add rich, white Boulderite.
Still a mistake to go with accident over premeditation.
Blondiexoxo
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MOO
The only theory that adds up to me is BDI. Explains everything, even the sexual assault which could be seen as some experimental game/curiosity. The small amount of pineapple imo points even more to BDI, the pineapple was consumed just prior to her death and points to the R’s lie that JB went straight to bed- never even woke up.
I don’t think she was initially harmed by P or J but BDI, was sent to bed for hitting JB then P & J spent the next several hours writing the ransom note and figuring out how they could find a story that was easy enough for B to stick to which was JB was taken straight to bed. The playing with JR story was probably part truth, maybe they were playing with his new toys, patsy shouts to ask if he wants a snack as JB has pineapple, could be as simple as he wanted pineapple but JB had the last of it, he lashed out as 9 year olds do, the RN was written because if they established COD as trauma that would mean child abuse charges against them both, their whole family would be torn apart. All MOO
The only theory that adds up to me is BDI. Explains everything, even the sexual assault which could be seen as some experimental game/curiosity. The small amount of pineapple imo points even more to BDI, the pineapple was consumed just prior to her death and points to the R’s lie that JB went straight to bed- never even woke up.
I don’t think she was initially harmed by P or J but BDI, was sent to bed for hitting JB then P & J spent the next several hours writing the ransom note and figuring out how they could find a story that was easy enough for B to stick to which was JB was taken straight to bed. The playing with JR story was probably part truth, maybe they were playing with his new toys, patsy shouts to ask if he wants a snack as JB has pineapple, could be as simple as he wanted pineapple but JB had the last of it, he lashed out as 9 year olds do, the RN was written because if they established COD as trauma that would mean child abuse charges against them both, their whole family would be torn apart. All MOO