Who Is Caylee's Biological Father?

[girlsgab]

Little of both. KC had an image on her myspace that she deleted on 7/16 that said "I heart Jesus O" or something to that effect. More searching than I got in me this eve for the image Must be on a thread here.
AND
Le preserved his blood early on.
AND
He actually did die in a car accident- following with the ole' a bit of truth in every lie.
AND I read on a blog

http://www.girlsgab.com/2008/08/jesus-ortiz-most-likely-not-caylee-marie-anthonys-father/

Note this comment- and that no-one had posted in forever on here...

Comment by krystaltaylor on October 22, 2008 @ 11:01 am

i know stephanie has casey and you reep what you sew. give that baby back to its grandparents. you will be caught.

Can you see that somone is rallying?

I think it is a made up name and my space. She didn't appear until after Caylee disappeared. Kind of like those bogus emails from Universal. YKWIM.

I did send Krystal an email shortly after she posted that and asked her if Stephanie indeed did have Caylee. I never heard a response. Stephanie is one of my contacts on Myspace and we have spoke a couple of times. I actually wouldn't be surprised if she had her.
http://www.girlsgab.com

 

[Broderick]

I'm not gonna go through 650 pages to find that link. You can reread his testimony, if you like.

He also refused JB a character reference for KC.

So, you think KC has PTSD, rather than sociopathy?

I think it was a nurtured sociopathic like disorder as related to an abuse victim and not necessarily post trauma. I think if she was being abused by Lee for years and then it came to light in the 7th or 8th month of pregnancy, Cindy, being the dominant force in all their lives might have dictated the rules going forward. Casey was to take outward responsibility for her daughter, Lee financial assistance, and everyone was to protect the family secret at all costs. She might have told Annie.

Cindy and George, when they got back together, allowed Casey to get away with sleeping around, lying, and stealing to some degree out of guilt and threats. She threatened her mother in one phone call released when she said "you don't know what my involvement was?" because I found it odd that Cindy backed off quickly. Lee also was nondescript when he asked her if everything is still okay and can be trusted with people and situations still in code and Casey told him yes, and that he would obviously know if it weren't. Makes sense under this scenario.

I think Cindy must protect Casey to protect Lee and her marriage to some degree. I think Cindy is the true sociopath.

 

[Brini]

I never mentioned incest ---but I guess I eluded to it ( the real definition) (sexual relations with close bio relative---illegal (consensual or not, minor or not). FYI:being a minor, and/or non-consensual adds a whole new charge

I agree we dont have any "facts" but psych/social work is more of an art than a science and often times cannot be "*proven" with concrete evidence. But statistics, behavior, and history are very telling.

*this is why many child molesters are never convicted----no scientific evidence/hearsay/he-said she-said/young "non credibal" victim*

Child molesters are OFTEN convicted. At least, around here. I have worked with the shrinks who testified for the prosecution, when I was a psych case manager.

Most shrinks don't jump to that explanation (sexual abuse) without some evidence. They use observation of behaviors + facts + intuition (true, it IS an art form). Most victims have trouble escaping the memories, and confide in a shrink rather easily. They also often show PTSD behaviors.

You'll notice that the talking head shrinks are all coming up with sociopathy, not PTSD s/p sexual abuse. That's because of observation of behavior.

I've had quite a few incest victim patients. None exhibited sociopathic behavior. One of my best friends was raped from age eight to age 12. By her stepfather, with the collusion of her mother.

They are usually not as cool, calm, and calculating as KC is.

MOO.

 

[Brini]

I agree.
KC and CA get in a fight. KC takes off w/ Caylee. Caylee wants her grandmother and is crying. KC is mad-she looks @ her daughter, who looks exactly like her mother and has had it. I'm sure the fact that Caylee looked exactly like CA didn't help matters. I can see the 3 of them @ Target, other women gushing about how cute Caylee is and telling CA that she looks just like her. I'm sure KC took this well.

Yeah, I agree. I'm SURE the resemblance didn't help, at all.

 

[Pondering Mind]

I think one male was off to the side. George. He seems like a destroyed man to me, ever since he left his career as an officer of the law.

Why did George leave and file for divorce around the time Caylee was born? That is if I have my dates right. Why was it said that Lee didn't come around the house when George was there? Was George ashamed of Lee? Who was paying the 500-1200 cell phone bills Casey racked up? Why did Cindy and Casey deny that she was pregnant at Rick's wedding when she was obviously pregnant - 7 months along? Why did Casey get employee of the year during the pregnancy at the Kiosk for Kodak and then suddenly abandon the job with no explanation? When did she develop the fictional characters in her life? When did she usurp other people's lives she was envious of and incorporate those as truths in her life?

There are no indications of sociopathy that I can find anywhere before Caylee was born, except for a reportedly normal, quiet, shy, good student dropping out of school unexpectedly. She didn't start sleeping around with everyone until right after that from what I gather. Why?


I agree with it being a weird case, but I from what I can gather it is textbook to abuse internally in the home if you look at the progression and all the signs.

She was fired for partying apparantly and coming to work late. Her supervisor had spoken to her about her "partying habits". You would have to read the docs in their entirety and perhaps go back through the general discussion threads. The answers to many of your questions are there, but it is like looking for a needle in a haystack to find them.

 

[Elley Mae]

I would say that for a 22 year old she has had her share of the guys.

 

[Broderick]

She was fired for partying apparantly and coming to work late. Her supervisor had spoken to her about her "partying habits". You would have to read the docs in their entirety and perhaps go back through the general discussion threads. The answers to many of your questions are there, but it is like looking for a needle in a haystack to find them.

I have seen it reported that she abandoned her job according to the correspondence with LE and Kodak. She just didn't show up to work anymore. I have read all the documents but must have missed that. She was pregnant when she worked there wasn't she?

 

[Pondering Mind]

I have seen it reported that she abandoned her job according to the correspondence with LE and Kodak. She just didn't show up to work anymore. I have read all the documents but must have missed that. She was pregnant when she worked there wasn't she?

I don't think that I have ever read whether she was/wasn't pregnant at the time, but I always gathered that it was AFTER Caylee was born. Not sure though. I know her last date of employment was early (April?) 2006.

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't think that I have ever read whether she was/wasn't pregnant at the time, but I always gathered that it was AFTER Caylee was born. Not sure though. I know her last date of employment was early (April?) 2006.

Yes, have heard it said "the first quarter for 2006"

 

[Broderick]

I don't think that I have ever read whether she was/wasn't pregnant at the time, but I always gathered that it was AFTER Caylee was born. Not sure though. I know her last date of employment was early (April?) 2006.

You are correct on that. I had the year wrong.

It makes sense that she quit after Caylee was born, because it seems she was being enabled in so many ways for her self-destruction and ultimately the demise of Caylee. Who paid the enormous cell phone bills?

Why did George move out and file for divorce after Caylee was born?

 

[Pondering Mind]

Yes, have heard it said "the first quarter for 2006"

O/T Elley Mae, but I did go back and read Ryan's interview again. Very Insightful IMO! He cites the reason as to Cindy's and George split to the fact that Casey had put them in such a bad financial situation, so apparantly her theiving goes way back. I would imagine even then Cindy was making excuses and we know it continued right until the time Caylee disappeared. Sorry, back on topic now, I just found that interesting.:crazy:

 

[Brini]

The primary conflict can be with the mother if she was outwardly saddled with the burden of a hideous family secret as well. I tend to think Cindy is the dominant dog in the house. I think if you listen to LP explain, he has some information but confirmation is coming soon. Dr. Haden also alluded to knowing the father from these reports. How? I don't know, but he said LE knows. It could be someone else, but to make sense of things I think the theory and as LP puts it, the knowledge, explains just about everything.

I see the non-dominant folks in the house doing the bidding of the dominant Cindy. If Cindy found out in the 7th or 8th month that Lee was the father and saddled Casey with the burden while Lee paid the cellphone bills and help financially it makes sense. Cindy let Caylee take the first female position in the house and relegated Casey to number two. This position is very important to Casey. She has it now. If the searches for missing children, the chloroform recipes, etc were a part of the plan (albeit rushed at the end) to earn back the first position by suffering a missing child scenario it all makes sense.

My guess is that if there was a hideous family secret, KC would exploit it dramatically, like she does the paternity of Caylee.

She could gain a lot of sympathy and attention, that way. Keep retelling the story of the "abuse," naming a professor here, a friend there, a family member over there, a friend of LAs, a dead guy..... Like the paternity stories.

Like she did with the story of the "miscarriage" at that party, where the guy snubbed her.

 

[Pondering Mind]

You are correct on that. I had the year wrong.

It makes sense that she quit after Caylee was born, because it seems she was being enabled in so many ways for her self-destruction and ultimately the demise of Caylee. Who paid the enormous cell phone bills?

Why did George move out and file for divorce after Caylee was born?

I was under the impression that she went to work AFTER Caylee was born not before. I don't believe that she worked much at all. See my post above as to why Ryan says C & G split. Even Cindy said that she gave Casey spending money and I suppose she stole the rest. (according to everything Cindy has said, despite the fact that she is backing off many of those statements now!)

 

[Broderick]

My guess is that if there was a hideous family secret, KC would exploit it dramatically, like she does the paternity of Caylee.

She could gain a lot of sympathy and attention, that way. Keep retelling the story of the "abuse," naming a professor here, a friend there, a family member over there, a friend of LAs, a dead guy..... Like the paternity stories.

Like she did with the story of the "miscarriage" at that party, where the guy snubbed her.

Well if given the choice between the following by her dominant mother:

1. My brother is the father.
2. I slept around and got knocked up by God knows who.
3. The father was killed in an accident coming to her very first birthday.
4. I was raped.

Which one garners the most sympathy? Saying she was raped makes her damaged goods in some eyes, or at least I could see her avoiding that one for just that reason in her mind. Miscarriage sounds sympathetic too.

 

[concentric]

My guess is that if there was a hideous family secret, KC would exploit it dramatically, like she does the paternity of Caylee.

She could gain a lot of sympathy and attention, that way. Keep retelling the story of the "abuse," naming a professor here, a friend there, a family member over there, a friend of LAs, a dead guy..... Like the paternity stories.

Like she did with the story of the "miscarriage" at that party, where the guy snubbed her.

Brini -

Do you think that the the defense is gearing up for a post-partum psychosis/depression diagnosis?

 

[Brini]

I think one male was off to the side. George. He seems like a destroyed man to me, ever since he left his career as an officer of the law.

Why did George leave and file for divorce around the time Caylee was born? That is if I have my dates right. Why was it said that Lee didn't come around the house when George was there? Was George ashamed of Lee? Who was paying the 500-1200 cell phone bills Casey racked up? Why did Cindy and Casey deny that she was pregnant at Rick's wedding when she was obviously pregnant - 7 months along? Why did Casey get employee of the year during the pregnancy at the Kiosk for Kodak and then suddenly abandon the job with no explanation? When did she develop the fictional characters in her life? When did she usurp other people's lives she was envious of and incorporate those as truths in her life?

There are no indications of sociopathy that I can find anywhere before Caylee was born, except for a reportedly normal, quiet, shy, good student dropping out of school unexpectedly. She didn't start sleeping around with everyone until right after that from what I gather. Why?


I agree with it being a weird case, but I from what I can gather it is textbook to abuse internally in the home if you look at the progression and all the signs.

I AM looking at all the signs. That's what I do.

If you turn out to be right, I'll do a 180 and eat LP's Stetson.

But, right now, I have to say I'm seeing a ton of Axis II signs, and all the wrong bx for familial sexual abuse. That's based on my education and experience.

Your milage may vary.

And, that's all I'm gonna say about it, right now. :blowkiss:

 

[Broderick]

I AM looking at all the signs. That's what I do.

If you turn out to be right, I'll do a 180 and eat LP's Stetson.

But, right now, I have to say I'm seeing a ton of Axis II signs, and all the wrong bx for familial sexual abuse. That's based on my education and experience.

Your milage may vary.

And, that's all I'm gonna say about it, right now. :blowkiss:

I will eat his darn hat too if he is right. I have searched for ideas to explain things, why this case is important to me I have no idea. When I go back through everything it is the only thing that seems to explain on so many levels. Nevertheless, I took a respite to review the Cindy myspace posting. Not that there are any clues to who the father is, it does seem to suggest that most of her lying started after Caylee was born. Two, almost three, years is way too long to be suffering from postpartum I do believe. Jealousy from resentments is convenient and I think I am in search of the easiest explanations even if they are bit uncomfortable. Caylee took the first position, the one Casey owned for 18 or 19 years. What changed her if she did indeed change at all when she dropped out of high school?


From Cindy's Myspace July 3rd

She came into my life unexspectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don't know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her. A mother's love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?



Cindy already grieved and her stages of grief probably have ended.

 

[unsaid]

Nevertheless, I took a respite to review the Cindy myspace posting.
From Cindy's Myspace July 3rd

She came into my life unexspectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don't know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her. A mother's love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?



Cindy already grieved and her stages of grief probably have ended.

Thanks for posting that. It was good to read Cindy's posting again. I really think this posting is the one instance in this case where Cindy was totally and completely honest. There is nothing to dispute about what she said here. This seems to be exactly what happened.

Someone mentioned in an earlier post about a postpartum depression type of defense strategy. This posting supports that since the lies seemed to have started after Caylee was born. I don't think it would fly in court...just sayin' though.

What I hope to see come out of the trial is more knowledge about the things that happened that made Cindy actually declare Casey a sociopath to Ryan. I don't think people get the sociopath label just for stealing money. What else happened? Oh and to stay relevant with the thread...Who's the daddy? lol

 

[Gaia713]

I will eat his darn hat too if he is right. I have searched for ideas to explain things, why this case is important to me I have no idea. When I go back through everything it is the only thing that seems to explain on so many levels. Nevertheless, I took a respite to review the Cindy myspace posting. Not that there are any clues to who the father is, it does seem to suggest that most of her lying started after Caylee was born. Two, almost three, years is way too long to be suffering from postpartum I do believe. Jealousy from resentments is convenient and I think I am in search of the easiest explanations even if they are bit uncomfortable. Caylee took the first position, the one Casey owned for 18 or 19 years. What changed her if she did indeed change at all when she dropped out of high school?


From Cindy's Myspace July 3rd

She came into my life unexspectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don't know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her. A mother's love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?




Cindy already grieved and her stages of grief probably have ended.

OMG, some honesty from Cindy. Amazing how she turned from this sympathetic character into the shrew she has become imo

 

[Pondering Mind]

Broderick-I meant to post the fact that when Ryan was asked if he knew who the father was he told LE that he just thought he was some "transient" which I found a strange choice of words!