"Who would leave children that young alone?"

[Jmoose]

It is normal to eat without the kids. To go out and enjoy your dinner.
It is not at all selfish. Especially with kids that little. They usually go to bed pretty early and so you eat when they go to bed.

When our kids were little, we ate when they ate if we went out, and I don't believe we are the exception. It's not forever...it isn't selfish to want to do stuff with adults, but all in good time.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

When our kids were little, we ate when they ate if we went out, and I don't believe we are the exception. It's not forever...it isn't selfish to want to do stuff with adults, but all in good time.

That is just you. And that is fine.. But I think it is normal for adults to want to eat alone with other adults.

I don't see this as one way is better than the other. Just that some people like to eat with their kids all the time and some don't. Either way does not make the other a bad parent.

 

[blefuscu]

That is just you. And that is fine.. But I think it is normal for adults to want to eat alone with other adults.

I don't see this as one way is better than the other. Just that some people like to eat with their kids all the time and some don't. Either way does not make the other a bad parent.

Sorry, but why is it normal? They were meant to be on a family holiday and yet palmed the children off to crèches in the day time all day, then left them for 5 or more hours at night. So when was quality time with the children? Give them some food when they get back from crèche, Gerry goes off to play tennis , bath time, bed!

They are selfish, thoughtless, self-obsessed people. This isn't a family holiday. It's time the adults spent luxuriating themselves with their children stuck in a crèche with strange caregivers, and then a night time of heavy drinking. Why not leave the children at home with grandma and grandpa?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Sorry, but why is it normal? They were meant to be on a family holiday and yet palmed the children off to crèches in the day time all day, then left them for 5 or more hours at night. So when was quality time with the children? Give them some food when they get back from crèche, Gerry goes off to play tennis , bath time, bed!

They are selfish, thoughtless, self-obsessed people. This isn't a family holiday. It's time the adults spent luxuriating themselves with their children stuck in a crèche with strange caregivers, and then a night time of heavy drinking. Why not leave the children at home with grandma and grandpa?

A lot of parents do this. IT does not mean they don't love their kids, They just want to eat in peace and enjoy other adults.. Normal.

Why not? Maybe that would have been a good idea.. But whatever it is, there are a lot of places that now offer family vacations where the kids have their own vacation places and the parents go off on their own.

I think this is just a matter of perspective and personal preference. Not right or wrong.

 

[Sleuth5]

Sorry, but why is it normal? They were meant to be on a family holiday and yet palmed the children off to crèches in the day time all day, then left them for 5 or more hours at night. So when was quality time with the children? Give them some food when they get back from crèche, Gerry goes off to play tennis , bath time, bed!

They are selfish, thoughtless, self-obsessed people. This isn't a family holiday. It's time the adults spent luxuriating themselves with their children stuck in a crèche with strange caregivers, and then a night time of heavy drinking. Why not leave the children at home with grandma and grandpa?

My, these seem reasonable concerns indeed. I mean, an awful lot of untoward and unforeseen things could happen when you leave your children that way and go out to douse yourself in alcohol. Not moralizing, mind you. I just can't envision a construction within which that would sound like reasonable decision making.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Never said KM was the bad guy. I think Gerry is more involved then her. He was the one seen carrying Madeleine away. I don't think they murdered her but i think she died as a direct result of them being negligent. They had 3 choices they could have made too insure Madeleine's safety creche, babysitter, or too do the responsible thing and eat inside their apartment. They failed as parents and whatever happened too her is there fault anyway you look at it. GM & DP where accused of being pedophiles (or at least making pedophilia remarks) It really makes me wonder if that's why they hid her body.

Or they could have just taken the kids with them and had just ONE parent return to look after them, that's what people DO!!! There is no real arguing this, they did the wrong thing, and IF they're innocent of her 'disappearance' they paid the ultimate price.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

My, these seem reasonable concerns indeed. I mean, an awful lot of untoward and unforeseen things could happen when you leave your children that way and go out to douse yourself in alcohol. Not moralizing, mind you. I just can't envision a construction within which that would sound like reasonable decision making.

And everyone is entitled to parent in their own way. I don't think they were doused in alcohol, But probably drinking and enjoying themselves..

But no matter what all this does not help figure out what happened to Madeleine.
It certainly gets people all riled up about what horrid parents they were but that does not say anything about what happened to maddie.

 

[blefuscu]

And everyone is entitled to parent in their own way. I don't think they were doused in alcohol, But probably drinking and enjoying themselves..

But no matter what all this does not help figure out what happened to Madeleine.
It certainly gets people all riled up about what horrid parents they were but that does not say anything about what happened to maddie.

Sorry, but what parenting were they actually doing? The children spent more time in crèches and left alone, or asleep through the night. The parents had all day alone, and then 5 or more hours at night, away from them.

And there is zero evidence of Madeleine being abducted. None whatsoever.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Sorry, but what parenting were they actually doing? The children spent more time in crèches and left alone, or asleep through the night. The parents had all day alone, and then 5 or more hours at night, away from them.

And there is zero evidence of Madeleine being abducted. None whatsoever.

Madeleine was abducted. That is just fact. She was taken out of that room. Who did it is the question.

IT is okay that you don't like this kind of vacation. But there are a lot of them now, Where people have basically a full time daycare on site and the kids are left there while the parents play all day alone. It is just a matter of opinion there. Some will think it is great and some won't.

 

[blefuscu]

Madeleine was abducted. That is just fact. She was taken out of that room. Who did it is the question.

IT is okay that you don't like this kind of vacation. But there are a lot of them now, Where people have basically a full time daycare on site and the kids are left there while the parents play all day alone. It is just a matter of opinion there. Some will think it is great and some won't.

Please direct me to ANY credibld evidence she was abducted.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Please direct me to ANY credibld evidence she was abducted.

She is gone. That is all you need. Someone took her out of there. No matter what that is a fact. Now whether you believe it was a stranger or her parents, That does not change the fact that she was taken away and no one knows where she is except that person who took her.

Jane saw someone carrying a small child away. That is another sign that someone took her.

I don't believe that her parents had anything to do with her disappearance other than being in the wrong place and taken too much for granted.

I can see the parents working out their strategy to keep an eye on the kids, all working together and thinking it would work, but I think that someone had an eye on them and wanted Madeleine and was waiting for the chance to take her. JMO

 

[blefuscu]

She is gone. That is all you need. Someone took her out of there. No matter what that is a fact. Now whether you believe it was a stranger or her parents, That does not change the fact that she was taken away and no one knows where she is except that person who took her.

Jane saw someone carrying a small child away. That is another sign that someone took her.

I don't believe that her parents had anything to do with her disappearance other than being in the wrong place and taken too much for granted.

I can see the parents working out their strategy to keep an eye on the kids, all working together and thinking it would work, but I think that someone had an eye on them and wanted Madeleine and was waiting for the chance to take her. JMO

They hadn't bothered working on a strategy for keeping an eye on the kids for the previous six nights, one child of the group had diarrhoea that smelled so vac the mother wouldn't enter the room and another child had just had surgery. They weren't concerned before that last night.

And yes she is gone, but if her parents had been complicit in her death and removed her from the apartment then that is not abduction.

Please explain any evidence there is at all that a stranger went into the apartment and took the child?

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I remember once when my child was about seven, I took him out into the Pacific Ocean. Now, I'd spent many a pleasant hour in the Atlantic snorkeling with my dad nearby, so I had no clue what I had in store in the Pacific.

I was 5'1" (still am) and 112 pounds (now not so small), and I took my child into the ocean, holding on at all times. I was being more careful than my own responsible dad had been with me, right? And yet, when the Pacific undertow hit it almost sucked my beloved child right out of my arms. It took everything I had to drag us both back to shore. We never went back into the ocean again.

Moral of the story: We all have been too trusting based on experience and assurances, and I feel that was the case here...the McCanns were raised in an era/area/parental aura that made them think that their children were safe.

Would I have left my precious son sleeping with other kids? At that time at that place...possibly (although I would have been checking often, and I would have had the personal need to be closer to the room).

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

They hadn't bothered working on a strategy for keeping an eye on the kids for the previous six nights, one child of the group had diarrhoea that smelled so vac the mother wouldn't enter the room and another child had just had surgery. They weren't concerned before that last night.

And yes she is gone, but if her parents had been complicit in her death and removed her from the apartment then that is not abduction.

Please explain any evidence there is at all that a stranger went into the apartment and took the child?

"Jane Tanner walks up the road, unnoticed by Gerry and Wilkins, although she sees them. She spots a man walking quickly across the top of the road in front of her, going away from the apartment block and heading to the outer road of the resort complex. He is carrying a sleeping girl in pink pyjamas who is hanging limply in his arms. The sighting is odd, but hardly exceptional in a holiday resort. Her daughter is fine; Tanner returns to the table."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/apr/11/madeleinemccann

Basically to me this is enough for me to believe it. Jane sees someone carrying a small child away.

To me that is the last time Maddie is seen alive. She sees GErry and Wilkins, so that is not who is carrying the child. It is someone else.

 

[blefuscu]

"Jane Tanner walks up the road, unnoticed by Gerry and Wilkins, although she sees them. She spots a man walking quickly across the top of the road in front of her, going away from the apartment block and heading to the outer road of the resort complex. He is carrying a sleeping girl in pink pyjamas who is hanging limply in his arms. The sighting is odd, but hardly exceptional in a holiday resort. Her daughter is fine; Tanner returns to the table."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/apr/11/madeleinemccann

Basically to me this is enough for me to believe it. Jane sees someone carrying a small child away.

To me that is the last time Maddie is seen alive. She sees GErry and Wilkins, so that is not who is carrying the child. It is someone else.

So why didn't she tell Gerry and Kate the moment they cry that she's missing. Why wait 24 hours? Ridiculous, she may have saved that child if she had told. That is if it's true.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So why didn't she tell Gerry and Kate the moment they cry that she's missing. Why wait 24 hours? Ridiculous, she may have saved that child if she had told. That is if it's true.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/apr/11/madeleinemccann

Shortly after 10pm: Rachael Oldfield goes to Tanner's apartment to tell her Madeleine has been taken. Tanner says: "Oh my God. I saw a man carrying a girl."

She told someone right away.

 

[Jmoose]

That is just you. And that is fine.. But I think it is normal for adults to want to eat alone with other adults.

I don't see this as one way is better than the other. Just that some people like to eat with their kids all the time and some don't. Either way does not make the other a bad parent.

(Lol) I didn't say I liked eating with my kids-I did it because leaving them alone to forage on their own was not right-and I knew it wasn't going to be long until they would be civilized enough to eat like people. It is an issue of a certain amount of responsibility that you have when you decide to have children.

 

[blefuscu]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/apr/11/madeleinemccann

Shortly after 10pm: Rachael Oldfield goes to Tanner's apartment to tell her Madeleine has been taken. Tanner says: "Oh my God. I saw a man carrying a girl."

She told someone right away.

How come she allegedly sees this "abductor" but neither Gerry or Wilkins, who disputes facts Gerry claims about there conversation, nor ANYONE else in the resort sees this man?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

How come she allegedly sees this "abductor" but neither Gerry or Wilkins, who disputes facts Gerry claims about there conversation, nor ANYONE else in the resort sees this man?

That is not weird. Some times it is just timing, What you are focusing on. The men were together and talking, She was not, She was walking alone and to be honest, women walking alone are usually very keen on what is going on around them. We are trained that way.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

(Lol) I didn't say I liked eating with my kids-I did it because leaving them alone to forage on their own was not right-and I knew it wasn't going to be long until they would be civilized enough to eat like people. It is an issue of a certain amount of responsibility that you have when you decide to have children.

I don't think they were sent into the jungle to find food..

I just don't see the issue with parents wanting to put their kids to bed and then go sit and eat with adults alone.