Why Christmas?

[lawstudent]

Intruders would almost never choose Christmas night to break in, because it's virtually guaranteed the whole family is home and not on a normal schedule. The only thing that would make sense is a burglary, which occur more frequently on holidays because people aren't home. But this crime assumes they are home because the target was the child. If it's not RDI, then the only other thing that makes sense to me is perhaps someone back for Christmas break who had a limited time to act and was young and stupid. But I have a hard time believing a young person did this and kept his mouth shut.

 

[Theonly1]

Another thing I would add is that, we have the benefit of seeing all this evidence in righting. We have all the time to analyze why they would do this, why they would do that. The Ramsey's don't have the luxury. They pretty much have to do this whole thing....in their head? How can they remember exactly what should fit with their story what does it. They had to use a blanket strategy...and pretty much lie about everything and cover up everything. They did not have the benefit of organized thought and a written strategy that premeditated plan would have.

That's one of the reasons why I think it was believable they would write such a ransom note and yet leave the body. Considering they had to do this on the fly..I'm positive some information got confused between the Ramsey's. Like maybe Patsy thought John wanted her to call right away...when he actually said for her to call later in the morning. This is all on the fly and said only in conversation and most likely not written down. Mistakes like that are easy to occur in such rushed action.

It is also a good reason why they used getting their previous statements as a bargaining tool! Hard to keep those lies straight, imho.

 

[Theonly1]

Christmas Night. Why? Why was this night different than any other! The Ramsey's schedule was REALLY busy. Running here and there. Packing for 2 trips. Catching an early flight. Parents care a lot about these things. Even John readied the plane in expectation. Who does not give a rip about pre-vacation? The kids! Most do not even have to pack their own stuff! So, that night while PR is trying to ready it all, wash jumpers, deal with soiling and God knows what else, the kids are...playing? Fooling around? Getting up? Kids do not think, "Man, I will not get a full night's sleep." Heck, I would stay up all night at Dads house when I wanted. Methinks JBR and BR were doing some "playing" that night. Even if it was innocent and she irked him. Perhaps they were playing with his train? Maybe they were playing doctor in her bedroom? I do not know.

 

[pukasonqo2]

i tend to think that, if BR did it, it was an accident. she pissed him off he hit her with whatever was close ( he had hit her before with a golf club so we could say he had a tendency to over react when angry like a lot of children do) that could be the flash light, a golf club

i don't think it was premeditated but more of a spur of the moment reaction

i have no explanation to her vaginal trauma or why the xmas date...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DeDee]

"The four of us had attended the family Christmas Eve service at St. John's and had gone to Pasta Jay's afterward for dinner. Then we drove up Baseline Road all the way to the star the city erects high on the rocky face overlooking Boulder. JonBenet had wanted to get out and walk to the center of the big star, outlined in white lights."

DOI pg 239 http://www.acandyrose.com/s-jonbenet-timeline.htm

Boulder Christmas Star Atop Flagstaff Mountain


When the star was born in 1947, the Public Service Co. of Colorado was responsible for maintenance. Reynolds took over in 1998.

In its early years, the lights were hung on short posts a few feet high and the design was easily changeable. The shapes have included an Easter cross in 1949 and a peace sign in 1969.

http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_22018457/boulders-flagstaff-star-gets-ready-its-big-night


Last year, posted: 11/09/2013 03:01:28 PM MST

The Chamber plans to illuminate the star for the first time this season at 7 p.m. on Monday, the release said. The lighting, taking place on Veterans Day, is meant to serve as a special tribute to America's armed services.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/bou...staff-holiday-lighting-set-veterans-day-debut


NBC Evening News for Saturday, Nov 29, 1980

Headline: Boulder, Colorado / Christmas Star

(Studio) New Christmas star atop Flagstaff mount in Boulder, Colorado, announced. Star said in memory of hostages in Iran.
REPORTER: Jessica Savitch

http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=508131

 

[CherCher]

Christmas Night. Why? Why was this night different than any other! The Ramsey's schedule was REALLY busy. Running here and there. Packing for 2 trips. Catching an early flight. Parents care a lot about these things. Even John readied the plane in expectation. Who does not give a rip about pre-vacation? The kids! Most do not even have to pack their own stuff! So, that night while PR is trying to ready it all, wash jumpers, deal with soiling and God knows what else, the kids are...playing? Fooling around? Getting up? Kids do not think, "Man, I will not get a full night's sleep." Heck, I would stay up all night at Dads house when I wanted. Methinks JBR and BR were doing some "playing" that night. Even if it was innocent and she irked him. Perhaps they were playing with his train? Maybe they were playing doctor in her bedroom? I do not know.

Shoot, I remember when my kids were little (I have 4 of them) and being extremely busy on Christmas Eve and Christmas. I had to work on CE, and although I got out a few hours early I was either hosting a family
gathering or going to one. The kids never wanted to go to sleep early (too much excitement) and I ended up staying awake until 1 or 2 am wrapping last minute gifts and cleaning up and making sure things looked nice. The kids were awake by 5, and after the gift opening was over there was more cleaning up and preparation for visiting or having visitors over. I was very often on my last nerve by the time Christmas day was over. One year I actually fell asleep during a family gift exchange. (That was a good Christmas) but most years I was under quite a bit of stress, and trying to keep one's cool during such times and retain my reputation as unflappable wasn't worth it. I finally stopped the pretense of being Superwoman and said "Come on over, but the house is a mess".

If on top of all of that stuff I had not one but two family getaways planned, I might truly have lost my mind.

 

[Venom]

Another thought about why Christmas, there is always the possibility of having extra people in the house during the holidays. Family members from out of town could have been at the R's house that night.

The Boulder Christmas star is pretty.

 

[UKGuy]

Christmas Night. Why? Why was this night different than any other! The Ramsey's schedule was REALLY busy. Running here and there. Packing for 2 trips. Catching an early flight. Parents care a lot about these things. Even John readied the plane in expectation. Who does not give a rip about pre-vacation? The kids! Most do not even have to pack their own stuff! So, that night while PR is trying to ready it all, wash jumpers, deal with soiling and God knows what else, the kids are...playing? Fooling around? Getting up? Kids do not think, "Man, I will not get a full night's sleep." Heck, I would stay up all night at Dads house when I wanted. Methinks JBR and BR were doing some "playing" that night. Even if it was innocent and she irked him. Perhaps they were playing with his train? Maybe they were playing doctor in her bedroom? I do not know.

Theonly1,
Maybe Christmas night was no different from previous nights and JonBenet was tired and annoyed, consider her still healing internal injuries, indicating prior abuse?

I reckon because JonBenet had her hair up in hair-ties, she had reached her bed after the pineapple snack, consider the scene in the breakfast bar, nothing really unusual, so much so nobody thought to cleanup to hide the contradictory pineapple evidence in the bowl!

So I think

Maybe they were playing doctor in her bedroom? I do not know.

is probably anyones best bet?

There is also blood on the pillow in JonBenet's bedroom, so quite a few independent clues seem to focus on her bedroom.

With James Kolar revealing feces were also present in her bedroom, along with a pair of pants alleged to belong to BR, this minimally requires explaining away?

.

 

[Theonly1]

Ukguy, I agree that the first incident, be it molestation or head bash, occured likely in her bedroom because of the stains on the pillow. Only unless the stains were like dark brown and from something like losing a tooth.

What I would REALLY enjoy on this forum would be discussion - open without everyone so dug in their trenches with their theories. This is NOT directed at you, dear. I find that people post "white" and then one or two others very consistently scream "black" and add definitive language. Person one is left to try and explain. Once this is done, person/s 2 and three will scream for links. It is really annoying and pretty contentious after awhile. Why can't we just try to see something from another pov for a minute? Example, I used to be 100 PDI but after more time, research, release of data, etc., I have come off my position. Guess I am just saying it is damn annoying to post and then have a counter-point leap on ya every.single.post.

 

[Cherry]

Y Xmas. So she wouldn't ever get to open her gifts. Possible sibling hatred.

 

[Cherry]

Maybe LE should interview ppl who knew they were going to the star, this would Hv gvn an insider knowledge the house could be breached....thn lie in wait. Something I Hv nvr considered before.

 

[DeeDee249]

Y Xmas. So she wouldn't ever get to open her gifts. Possible sibling hatred.

Except that this happened Christmas NIGHT, not Christmas Eve. The gifts were already opened.

 

[THE BUNK]

Why can't we just try to see something from another pov for a minute

I've made several attempts to do that. The problem is that for one side of the argument, logic and common sense do not apply. They are more concerned about having a conclusion that they can feel comfortable with rather than the truth. For that side, the other possibility is too terrible to fathom. It forces them to consider the potential darkside in themselves. That THEY could potentially do this to a child. That is why one side has always been biased and unwilling to listen to reason.

Me personally, I have always felt there are are only three possibilities in this case. I group them in order of probability

1. One of the Ramsey family committed the murder. The other family members conspired to keep the murderer's identity secret.

2. It was a botched kidnapping attempt by a group of amateurs with the assistance of an insider in the Ramsey Family.

3. A mistress of John Ramsey did this as a crime of passion or as an attempt to sway John from his family. In this scenario the mistress would have a male conspirator that aided her.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Shoot, I remember when my kids were little (I have 4 of them) and being extremely busy on Christmas Eve and Christmas. I had to work on CE, and although I got out a few hours early I was either hosting a family
gathering or going to one. The kids never wanted to go to sleep early (too much excitement) and I ended up staying awake until 1 or 2 am wrapping last minute gifts and cleaning up and making sure things looked nice. The kids were awake by 5, and after the gift opening was over there was more cleaning up and preparation for visiting or having visitors over. I was very often on my last nerve by the time Christmas day was over. One year I actually fell asleep during a family gift exchange. (That was a good Christmas) but most years I was under quite a bit of stress, and trying to keep one's cool during such times and retain my reputation as unflappable wasn't worth it. I finally stopped the pretense of being Superwoman and said "Come on over, but the house is a mess".

If on top of all of that stuff I had not one but two family getaways planned, I might truly have lost my mind.

exactly the reason why Burke and JB prowling the basement for more presents is RIDICULOUS, as is Burke carrying on like a pervert.

Those kids must have been exhausted.

Yet again I note the significance of Christmas Day - daddy's special present was scheduled for late that night.

Patsy and John had both been grooming her for the big day.

Utterly sick and the only thing that really makes any sense.

We KNOW she had already been penetrated with something small, such as a finger.

Christmas Night he was going all the way.

Unfortunately for all of us, JB was having none of it and kicked and carried on, then had to be disciplined.

:sick:

 

[Theonly1]

And I read her police depo again. Patsy really did not want to make the Charlevoix trip.

 

[DeDee]

Recently, I posted quotes that pertained to the Boulder air temperature on December 25-26 only I can't recall which thread it was on. My quote stated it was nine degrees on the early morning of the 26th. Another poster replied that they remembered it being closer to thirty degrees. Since that time, I discovered a site that tracks national weather all the way back to 1996.

According to the stats on Dec. 25, max was 42 degrees; mean was 30 degrees and a low of 17 degrees. That is quite an 8 degree discrepancy from my earlier quoted information of it being nine degrees when officers first arrived.

What else I found rather interesting on the weather history page was that it was a full moon on Christmas Night, 1996.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

 

[gramcracker]

in the ID rebuttal sub-forum ...
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=455"]Rebuttal to Discovery I.D. Show about JonBenet - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


in the snow/footprints thread ...
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147107"]Rebuttal Discovery I.D. Show/Footprints in Snow/Lou Smit - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


this link to cynic's post ...
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6461140&postcount=100"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Ramsey Project Rebuttal (Non Intruder Posters Only)[/ame]


lists three sources with three early morning temperatures: 9, 10 and 11 degrees

 

[Meara]

Recently, I posted quotes that pertained to the Boulder air temperature on December 25-26 only I can't recall which thread it was on. My quote stated it was nine degrees on the early morning of the 26th. Another poster replied that they remembered it being closer to thirty degrees. Since that time, I discovered a site that tracks national weather all the way back to 1996.

According to the stats on Dec. 25, max was 42 degrees; mean was 30 degrees and a low of 17 degrees. That is quite an 8 degree discrepancy from my earlier quoted information of it being nine degrees when officers first arrived.

What else I found rather interesting on the weather history page was that it was a full moon on Christmas Night, 1996.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Sources disagree about the temperature, so it's hard to nail it down. Crime Magazine supports your first statement, that the temperature on the morning of the 26th was 9*. Schiller says temps reached a low of 6*. ST says temps went below zero. This site, http://www.jonbenetinvestigation.com/weather.htm, says the low that night was 24*. The Old Farmer's Almanac says the low on the 25th was 32* and on the 26th, 6.8*. So much depends on where the reading was taken, and when, and whether the day was being being measured from midnight to midnight or sunset to sunset. Adding to the variations, temperatures quoted for Boulder are usually measured at Jeffco Airport in Broomfield, which is about 13 miles southeast of the city, in a different microclimate. Who knew it could get so complicated?

I appreciate your research, and the detail about the full moon is new to me and really interesting. It means that with little or no cloud cover, it would have been a bad night for any kidnappers wanting to sneak around in the dark. Good catch.

 

[GoBrewers]

Christmas and the cult/devilworshiping/pagan links (not that they are all really true) are made because Christmas is a pagan ripoff. There are a lot of good things about christmas, but there are also a lot of reasons it isn't what people are lead to believe in historical times. Just from all my reading on the stuff before, tbh, Winter solstice ftw.

http://www.miltontimmons.com/SolsticeandChristmas.html

Hell. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/apr/03/easter-pagan-symbolism

And I'm not here to bash religion because I have attender church as a child, and the thing that always struck me was the fact that even my pastor (wels) said Jesus was more likely born around easter, we celebrated Christmas because it was a time to give dissection (he was much better at explaining this) between the birth of Jesus, and his death. Either way, religion is a rough topic to get into, so i'll just let that be for those interested one way or another, and stay on topic.

Christmas eve was the perfect time. IMO the best time to attack would be christmas day night. As a kid (and every kid i know) we got up at 5, maybe 6am and woke our parents up to open christmas. We got time for our gifts and a family breakfast before church, and after was a day filled with activity. I don't think as a kid i made it past 8pm. The issue is their family would have been out of town. I cannot 100% say Patsy and John were the murderers, in fact I do always wonder about their often out of town guest tbh, but I do 100% believe whoever did this to JBR knew they would be out of town, and attacked based on the assumption they would be either asleep, or more concerned about the activities of the morning. Either way IMO the note itself is just ridiculous no matter how you look at it. John's exact bonus as the ransom?

 

[THE BUNK]

Christmas eve was the perfect time. IMO the best time to attack would be christmas day night

Most law enforcement want Christmas Eve off so they can be with their families on Christmas Morning. The night of christmas day would not be as significant. There is a better chance your going to have better Law Enforcement available on Christmas Day than on Chirstmas Eve.