Why GJ Likely Solved Case In 1999

[ZoriahNZ]

What I can make out on page 73:

...veral aspects of this crime were staged. These include:
(care) with the blanket and nightgown, the loose ligatures never
indicative of parental care and involvement.
...minal element. The unusual sum, it was not consistent with a "real"
Ramsay. He was very complimentary of him for such an angry crime. It is
written by someone who thought this is what a ransom note
...meone who was writing a note for an actual ransom amount.
...me of this type (child killed, left in home, fake ransom note) is the only
no other case with this M.O. exists.

(?) early stages of the investigation, the Ramsey's first attorney, Brian
(glas?), retired profiler from the F.B.I.'s Behavioral Science unit. Mr.
that he never interviewed Patsy Ramsey and that he was hired to

(?):
injury to the head occurred anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours

...al cooperation.

...pportunity.

...g the same clothing when she is contacted by police officer's on the
(?) wore the night before to the White's.
...th Mrs. Ramsey's jacket.

 

[Magdalyn]

"Not only was the pineapple in the fridge..."

You know, for something that doesn't mean anything/is evidence of nothing in the case, Patsy sure made a point to strenuously deny how it could possibly get there (uh, from your fridge? Big logic jump, I know!) or if she even bought it.

Add to that Burke's reaction and (IMO) faux lack of recognition of what he could POSSIBLY be looking at in that picture.

But the pineapple means nothing....

 

[Frigga]

^^^ Yeah- I think all of the pieces of the puzzle are coming together- finally.

I just reread the thread that Blue Crab posted on and he had this nailed.

I honestly don't think Patsy was the molestor- I can't help but think she was the kind of woman my mom was... molested herself or knew that one or both of her sisters had been and she had built up a very solid defense mechanism over time to protect what she couldn't handle. John Ramsey found the perfect Patsy- when he met her- beautiful and damaged and capable of giving him new offspring. Often times these women are attracted to men who feel familiar- John would have been just that type of person, in my estimation. I can't help but think Patey loved her children as best she could- she started off with a deficite from her own family of origin issues/trauma.

John was protecting John first and foremost, his money and his reputation- that's what narcissists do- especially ones that are sexually inappropriate with their children.

Burke was protecting Burke- he has feelings for no one else but himself- that must have been puzzling and difficult.

Patsy was protecting everyone as well as her own psyche and sanity. In the scheme of things she didn't make it very long. She's with Jonbenet now.

For the first time in a really long time I feel sorry for Patsy.

I hope John lives a very long, drawn out life- filled with memories that haunt him. It was his money, power and influence that destroyed the lives and careers of too many people to list. He's still doing it- isn't he?

I hope people will talk- tell what they know. He can't have much money left. It is amazing the tables are finally turning.

What a Heartbreaking tale of dysfunction, murder, betrayal, incest and sociopathy. MOO

 

[FinallyRegistered]

[video=youtube;9U7jbuMuImM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U7jbuMuImM[/video]

This is an interesting video. It is the deposition of Alex Hunter, DA who didn't charge the Ramseys, and Lin Wood, the attorney representing the Ramseys. Mr. Hunter is very careful with his words regarding the grand jury, but, boy, he sure cannot hide his respect and love for Mr. Wood.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Facinating. Never in my life witnessed a deposition conducted like that.


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[FinallyRegistered]

Yes, the deposition is strange. He sounds like he is being very shady, but if you assume he is answering the questions based on the fact that the actual murderer (BR) can never be charged under Colorado law and that everything concerning the grand jury is a secret, then he *almost* seems truthful. Basically, reading between the lines helps mitigate an upcoming migraine.

 

[costalpilot]

Facinating. Never in my life witnessed a deposition conducted like that.


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he didnt answer questions, he made speeches.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I found the list of grand jurors - sigh... http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/14jurywe.html


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[zencompass]

^^^ Yeah- I think all of the pieces of the puzzle are coming together- finally.

I just reread the thread that Blue Crab posted on and he had this nailed.

I honestly don't think Patsy was the molestor- I can't help but think she was the kind of woman my mom was... molested herself or knew that one or both of her sisters had been and she had built up a very solid defense mechanism over time to protect what she couldn't handle. John Ramsey found the perfect Patsy- when he met her- beautiful and damaged and capable of giving him new offspring. Often times these women are attracted to men who feel familiar- John would have been just that type of person, in my estimation. I can't help but think Patey loved her children as best she could- she started off with a deficite from her own family of origin issues/trauma.

John was protecting John first and foremost, his money and his reputation- that's what narcissists do- especially ones that are sexually inappropriate with their children.

Burke was protecting Burke- he has feelings for no one else but himself- that must have been puzzling and difficult.

Patsy was protecting everyone as well as her own psyche and sanity. In the scheme of things she didn't make it very long. She's with Jonbenet now.

For the first time in a really long time I feel sorry for Patsy.

I hope John lives a very long, drawn out life- filled with memories that haunt him. It was his money, power and influence that destroyed the lives and careers of too many people to list. He's still doing it- isn't he?

I hope people will talk- tell what they know. He can't have much money left. It is amazing the tables are finally turning.

What a Heartbreaking tale of dysfunction, murder, betrayal, incest and sociopathy. MOO

Hi Frigga,

I absolutely agree about Blue Crab.

 

[zencompass]

I also agree with one of Blue Crab's postings that (I am paraphrasing) if the D.A. had proceeded with the indictment of child endangerment then everything would have
come out and this case would have been solved following the Grand Jury's findings.

The phone records alone from that morning of the 26th would have told the story.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

I also agree with one of Blue Crab's postings that (I am paraphrasing) if the D.A. had proceeded with the indictment of child endangerment then everything would have
come out and this case would have been solved following the Grand Jury's findings.

The phone records alone from that morning of the 26th would have told the story.

Yep, so true. Every single weird thing in this case makes sense now with that in mind.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

^^^ Yeah- I think all of the pieces of the puzzle are coming together- finally.

I just reread the thread that Blue Crab posted on and he had this nailed.

I honestly don't think Patsy was the molestor- I can't help but think she was the kind of woman my mom was... molested herself or knew that one or both of her sisters had been and she had built up a very solid defense mechanism over time to protect what she couldn't handle. John Ramsey found the perfect Patsy- when he met her- beautiful and damaged and capable of giving him new offspring. Often times these women are attracted to men who feel familiar- John would have been just that type of person, in my estimation. I can't help but think Patey loved her children as best she could- she started off with a deficite from her own family of origin issues/trauma.

John was protecting John first and foremost, his money and his reputation- that's what narcissists do- especially ones that are sexually inappropriate with their children.

Burke was protecting Burke- he has feelings for no one else but himself- that must have been puzzling and difficult.

Patsy was protecting everyone as well as her own psyche and sanity. In the scheme of things she didn't make it very long. She's with Jonbenet now.

For the first time in a really long time I feel sorry for Patsy.

I hope John lives a very long, drawn out life- filled with memories that haunt him. It was his money, power and influence that destroyed the lives and careers of too many people to list. He's still doing it- isn't he?

I hope people will talk- tell what they know. He can't have much money left. It is amazing the tables are finally turning.

What a Heartbreaking tale of dysfunction, murder, betrayal, incest and sociopathy. MOO

It still surprises me that Natalee Holloway's mother dated him. You would think she would have sensed he's not a good person after all the work she's done to get justice for Natalee.

And he's married to some poor woman now who obviously must believe the intruder theory.

Some people choose to believe what they want regardless of the truth. Hopefully that woman doesn't have any pretty little granddaughters.

 

[BBB167893]

[video=youtube;9U7jbuMuImM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U7jbuMuImM[/video]

This is an interesting video. It is the deposition of Alex Hunter, DA who didn't charge the Ramseys, and Lin Wood, the attorney representing the Ramseys. Mr. Hunter is very careful with his words regarding the grand jury, but, boy, he sure cannot hide his respect and love for Mr. Wood.

Why should he? They share the same goals.

 

[Ambitioned]

boy, he sure cannot hide his respect and love for Mr. Wood.

Yeah I see some *advertiser censored* undertones happening here. Strange

 

[No it's not]

I found the list of grand jurors - sigh... http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/14jurywe.html


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Thank you much Linda. Wished we could connect with one of them.. I will never understand why the DA refused to sign the bills and kept the indictments a secret, instead of signing them, filing them, and then dismiss them in court. That was against the CO statutes regarding GJ proceedings. Conveniently the Statute of limitations for those charges eventually ran out two months later.

-Nin

 

[HarmonyE.]

Thank you much Linda. Wished we could connect with one of them.. I will never understand why the DA refused to sign the bills and kept the indictments a secret, instead of signing them, filing them, and then dismiss them in court. That was against the CO statutes regarding GJ proceedings. Conveniently the Statute of limitations for those charges eventually ran out two months later.

It's relatively easy to get a Grand Jury to indict. Quite another to get convictions. Hunter claims this is why he wouldn't charge them. There wasn't enough evidence to convict John and Patsy of assisting Burke or child endangerment. Fair enough, on the surface at least.

Having read the books of Steve Thomas and James Kolar, I know there was much more going on with the DA's office. I think Hunter was a weak man who feared the Ramseys and their attorneys. And since he wasn't going after the actual murderer, he decided to run away from it all.

It's Mary Lacy's behavior that I find astounding. Mostly because it was so over-the-top and unnecessary.

 

[Heymom]

Thank you much Linda. Wished we could connect with one of them.. I will never understand why the DA refused to sign the bills and kept the indictments a secret, instead of signing them, filing them, and then dismiss them in court. That was against the CO statutes regarding GJ proceedings. Conveniently the Statute of limitations for those charges eventually ran out two months later.

-Nin

It's my belief that he was threatened with lawsuits, both personal and professional and against every agency in Boulder who had anything to do with the case. Also, there is the problem that the person who had committed the crime could not be charged with the crime, and had to be protected as an "infant." So Hunter's hands were at least legally tied to the extent he had no courage to challenge the statutes. He was not a courageous individual to start with and in a town like Boulder, this was not seen as a bad thing. He allowed a lot of pleading out rather than take a prosecution to court. This would have been *way* out of his comfort zone. And I am sure he was advised that Boulder did not need the bad publicity of lawsuits should he choose to disclose the GJ's findings and go forward.

 

[Heymom]

It's relatively easy to get a Grand Jury to indict. Quite another to get convictions. Hunter claims this is why he wouldn't charge them. There wasn't enough evidence to convict John and Patsy of assisting Burke or child endangerment. Fair enough, on the surface at least.

Having read the books of Steve Thomas and James Kolar, I know there was much more going on with the DA's office. I think Hunter was a weak man who feared the Ramseys and their attorneys. And since he wasn't going after the actual murderer, he decided to run away from it all.

It's Mary Lacy's behavior that I find astounding. Mostly because it was so over-the-top and unnecessary.

Agree - by that time the case must have been pretty well-known to be a dead end. Why did she bring JMK back to Boulder?? Waste of taxpayer money, bad publicity, why?? Wishful thinking?? Or did she actually mean to convict an innocent man just to take suspicion off her friend Patsy?? Despicable!!

 

[johnjay]

Thank you much Linda. Wished we could connect with one of them.. I will never understand why the DA refused to sign the bills and kept the indictments a secret, instead of signing them, filing them, and then dismiss them in court. That was against the CO statutes regarding GJ proceedings. Conveniently the Statute of limitations for those charges eventually ran out two months later.

-Nin

If the DA signed the indictments then the law required the GJ information to be made public. I think the GJ was used as a mechanism to seal information about the case and keep people quiet about what they knew. I think it was a way to protect a minor who couldn't be charged. Without the GJ a lot more information about the Ramsey's would have leaked out to the public but with the GJ they didn't just face threats from Ramsey lawyers but also criminal prosecution.

 

[UKGuy]

Which leads me to wonder (I shall never know) what evidence/testimony the Grand Jury read/heard in order to reach those conclusions.

That is why I asked in another thread whether the Grand Jury had the power to unseal medical records or alternatively, subpoena a pediatrician to testify.

Firstly that the parents of JonBenet:


" did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen."

and secondly that the parents of JonBenet:

"did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death."



I find these votes to indictment intriguing as well as frustrating. Why did the Grand Jury feel that the parents were responsible for the murder?

Who did they feel the parents covered for?

What are others' thoughts on what the Grand Jury concluded? Thanks in advance!

zencompass,

"did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death."

This bit we all know about, its the staging part.

" did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen."

This bit means the parents were aware JonBenet was at risk but did nothing.

I find these votes to indictment intriguing as well as frustrating. Why did the Grand Jury feel that the parents were responsible for the murder?

They never the GJ cite an anonymous third party: the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death.

Although you can parse the above in different ways, i.e. the parents assisted each other. So why not true bill one or both parents with a homicide charge?

This leaves the third party as the only R left in the case, i.e. Burke Ramsey.

.