Why would the DT not use a mental defense?

[21merc7]

I recommend looking this up:

Regina v. M'Naghten in 1843.

Here is an "easy" link:

http://www.answers.com/topic/mcnaghten-rules

 

[Whisperer]

There are plenty of Casey's out there. Her right to entitlement is limitless. I don't think she is smart, but she plays smart on TV. She features herself as an actress in her fantasy world. She believes she is so beautiful that men will fall at her feet. Men have provided her with her weapons.

What really should have got ICA very very upset was when her mother stood and looked at ther in Court. Now, normally Cindy would have said, "You are beautiful, no matter what". Instead, cindy says, "She's not as big as she was back then". I was stunned. This statement from cindy has told me cindy has taken a turn.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

I'm going to sign off but I have a question I'm pondering and wanted to see what you thought as well...

It does tie into an insanity defense question of the OP.

Does lying mean you have a personality disorder or are insane?

If not, when does lying cross the boundry into PD or insanity?

By all appearances KC's lying never really caused her much problems in the past (her other activities did) so why would she modify that behavior if it wasn't causing her problems? (Key word: her).

Is lying itself an indication of mental illness or a intellectual challange?

I'm not asking about what she lied about I'm asking about lying. KWIM? Just curious as to what other's think about lying. As KC's mother said Lying isn't a crime (to paraphrase not quote).

Personally, at least for me, it becomes an issue of some sort of personality disorder when the liar is confronted with the lies, knows they are lying and knows that you know that they are lying and you put the evidence of the lies in their face and they just keep on lying as if they are telling the truth.

 

[gamom]

I have always wondered the same thing. Would be MUCH better than the drowned and GA covered up the crime. Think about this...KC says "I left Caylee at the steps in front of Zanny's house" when the take KC to the house, she says "Zanny! WHeres Caylee??" and starts talking to herself. Then when she goes to Universal, she goes one step further and sits down in an office and says "here is my desk" and starts working. Etc.

I realize that after the lies, she could not retrack, but she could just stand up in court and yell "That is NOT my voice on those tapes, thats Janet! Go AWAY Janet!! Where did you take Zanny and Caylee???!"

At least they could save her life and she would spend the most of her time in a hospital. Hey it worked in Primal Fear.

 

[Caligram]

ICA is sane, knows right from wrong. She just happens to be evil, cold and calculating.
She deserves the death penalty. You can't fix the soul rot that she's got.

 

[NocturnalLady]

1. She won't let them.
2. She is not insane in the legal sense. She knows right from wrong.

I don't think we know for sure if she has been diagnosed with any personality disorder or sociopathy. We've never seen any psych reports. I know the DT didn't want the SA to have a chance to have their psychiatrists examine Casey. So either she has not been diagnosed with anything and the DT didn't want to close that door by letting that come out - they's rather leave open the insinuation of that possibility in the jury's minds - OR Casey was diagnosed with something but it isn't anything that will help them in a legal sense so the DT doesn't want the SA to know that. Sorry if I'm being confusing.

 

[Reality Orlando]

I agree with the others that she is not insane and knows right from wrong. Where I believe they made the big big mistake was right after they said that it was an accident in the pool. If they had taken the "Can't tell my overbearing mother, so I set it up to look like a kidnapping" road instead of the "My dad hid the baby, molested me, so did my brother, LE didn't investigate, the media wouldn't leave me alone, and the meter reader stole a dead body" road. I would have totally believed, or at least believed that the state couldn't prove otherwise if they had gone with just being afraid of Cindy.

If she did that at the beginning of this trial, can you imagine the outcry for the money and time spent on this investigation when it all came down to her fear of her mother? Wow, I can't see that going over well at all.

 

[Whisperer]

I'm going to sign off but I have a question I'm pondering and wanted to see what you thought as well...

It does tie into an insanity defense question of the OP.

Does lying mean you have a personality disorder or are insane?

If not, when does lying cross the boundry into PD or insanity?

By all appearances KC's lying never really caused her much problems in the past (her other activities did) so why would she modify that behavior if it wasn't causing her problems? (Key word: her).

Is lying itself an indication of mental illness or a intellectual challange?

I'm not asking about what she lied about I'm asking about lying. KWIM? Just curious as to what other's think about lying. As KC's mother said Lying isn't a crime (to paraphrase not quote).

Lying is not, in itself, a problem. It becomes one when the person is lying when there is no reason to lie. When they have deceived themselves and their entire world is built on lies..then it is serious.

 

[Tink]

I don't believe for one second that Casey has deceived herself or believes her own lies. She is too good at being selective about who hears what story. She has one set of lies for her mom, another for Amy, another for Tony... That's not someone who is mentally ill and living in a fantasy world, that's someone who tells lies to manipulate people, get what she wants and get away with things she's done.

Tink

 

[NocturnalLady]

I have always wondered the same thing. Would be MUCH better than the drowned and GA covered up the crime. Think about this...KC says "I left Caylee at the steps in front of Zanny's house" when the take KC to the house, she says "Zanny! WHeres Caylee??" and starts talking to herself. Then when she goes to Universal, she goes one step further and sits down in an office and says "here is my desk" and starts working. Etc.

I realize that after the lies, she could not retrack, but she could just stand up in court and yell "That is NOT my voice on those tapes, thats Janet! Go AWAY Janet!! Where did you take Zanny and Caylee???!"

At least they could save her life and she would spend the most of her time in a hospital. Hey it worked in Primal Fear.

Seriously DO NOT give the DT any ideas. I really truly will not be surprised if this actually happens now because it's 100% certain that they read here and it certainly looks like they have gotten their entire defense from WS. :loser:

 

[Whisperer]

What really gripes me is that her attorney and her deceived the entire nation. He knew from day one what was going on. He went out there and played this "Zanny" thing to the hilt. They have cost the State of Florida millions of dollars and he is still pleaing for more. He let Casey wear those shirts. He didn't discourage her from wearing them. These two may suffer from similar issues.

If it were an accident, or if she was insane, molested and scared, there was plenty of time to come forth and spill it..not soak up money for three years. How much money was spent on investigaors, fighting science results, consulting with experts and yet no psychs on board that were paid by them?

They had the nerve to sell those tapes for $200,00 to ABC,which went into his pocket. He had Casey license them and now she owes $70,000 in taxes for it. Tell me Mr. Baez didn't do that to avoid paying the tax. I could go on but am afraid I may get in trouble.

Mods, if not appropriate, please delete.

 

[Whisperer]

Watching casey watch herself on the monitor is fascinating. She is truly involved.....finally they put something on the monitor that interests her.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

If she did that at the beginning of this trial, can you imagine the outcry for the money and time spent on this investigation when it all came down to her fear of her mother? Wow, I can't see that going over well at all.

But would you rather take the backlash of the public, or the needle?

ETA: I do think the backlash would be bad, but CA, before now, had put enough out there that it would have been at least plausible.

 

[Jolynna]

Every one of ICA's lies and bad deeds benefited ICA. Doing things that get you something in return is sane.

When KC needed a roof over her head she found one. She was able to feed and clean up after four sloppy, hungry young males. She managed a herd of shot girls. She could go out, socialize with and make a favorable impression on educated people of all ages and from all walks of life.

KC, like Scott Peterson, Brad Cooper, Michael Peterson, Drew Peterson, Susan Smith, Darlie R., Diane Downs, and more people than I can list in one post, erased an innocent who was in her way.

To people like the above, erasing an innocent is more in the category of making a career move than a dastardly deed. It isn't rocket science that KC's goal of catching a man who would take care of her the way her parents did without all the nagging would be easier minus Caylee. And her heart was going pitter-patter from exposure to the scent of a new man. Just like Scott Peterson didn't want to go through the expense and trouble of a divorce, KC didn't want the humiliation of her mother being right about her not wanting to take care of her own child. She'd lose face and that is something a narcissist can't live with.

KC killed Caylee because it made sense to her to do so.

That is the opposite of insane.

imo

 

[gamom]

I don't believe for one second that Casey has deceived herself or believes her own lies. She is too good at being selective about who hears what story. She has one set of lies for her mom, another for Amy, another for Tony... That's not someone who is mentally ill and living in a fantasy world, that's someone who tells lies to manipulate people, get what she wants and get away with things she's done.

Tink

ITA. I think she could never manipulate GA. I believe GA always questioned her to CA which is why they had several fights over KC.

 

[Whisperer]

http://www.cfnews13.com/static/articles/images/documents/casey-mental-health-0412.pdf

She's had more than a couple psch evals IIRC and she does not have mental illness or a personality disorder.

She is what she is...JMHO.

Upon reviewing the document, this is not a typical statement. They emphazied that all their opinion is based on her statement. It tells me she refused psych evals, I am willing to wager that she insisted SHE doesn't suffer from any mental illness and has NO problems. :banghead:

Very typical of narcissist..they deny psych problems. I have never seen any narcissist diagnosis because they just don't show up for treatment. You could never convince them they have a problem..LOL

IMO, she definitely suffers from Personality Disorders, If she had an eval, they would determine that, at the very minimum. So I guessing she refused evaluation.

 

[ontariolynn13]

Exactly! It makes it sound like KC and the "imaginary" friends share "imaginary" tea parties with "imaginary" pink bunnies, that's it's somehow CUTE. I find this tactic a little twisted, and definitely more than a little annoying...not to mention, unprofessional. But then, yesterday Baez did ask the detective if he "then asked Casey if she had ever committed suicide" (or whatever the exact quote was)....I just about horked up a lung laughing over that one!
:gavel:

His answer was, he could not ask that question, becuase she would not be there to answer it, her lawyer is really out to lunch 24/7

 

[mikeysmommom]

I don't believe for one second that Casey has deceived herself or believes her own lies. She is too good at being selective about who hears what story. She has one set of lies for her mom, another for Amy, another for Tony... That's not someone who is mentally ill and living in a fantasy world, that's someone who tells lies to manipulate people, get what she wants and get away with things she's done.

Tink

I totally agree! She lies to manipulate everyone around her, I just wish Baez would stop saying imaginary.

 

[Necelicious]

Damian?

too funny:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Wescott]

Upon reviewing the document, this is not a typical statement. They emphazied that all their opinion is based on her statement. It tells me she refused psych evals, I am willing to wager that she insisted SHE doesn't suffer from any mental illness and has NO problems. :banghead:

Very typical of narcissist..they deny psych problems. I have never seen any narcissist diagnosis because they just don't show up for treatment. You could never convince them they have a problem..LOL

IMO, she definitely suffers from Personality Disorders, If she had an eval, they would determine that, at the very minimum. So I guessing she refused evaluation.

Judge Strickland ordered psych evaluations back in July 2008. There is a really good post by ThinkTank here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132730"]Psychologists Dr. Jeffery Danziger; Dr. Alan Berns; Dr. William Weitz; Dr. Harry Kro - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Can she refuse if it is court ordered?